I suspect SL's hiatus will have the lowest subs in history and it will trigger events

[Qnubi]

Your first paragraph nails it. WoW can't compete with today's games and is only really popular among addicts and sunk costees.

Not completely true, WoW still has gameplay to it that let's it compete. One of the two most dominating MMORPGs in the west are FF14 / WoW and do well. I have tried every non-tab targeting MMO there is and they all feel bad to play. My MMORPG needs to have tab targeting or it won't do for me. And in that regard, WoW is still competitive.

Same reason I think modern RPG games like Witcher 3 are not as good as the classic party pased RPGs such as Dragon Age, Baldurs Gate or Pillars of Eternity. They have unique gameplay/feel. And these older style games are competing for my interest.

[Steelangel]

What does is matter that its slightly indirect when its the same game ruining outcome ?

The fact that some shitter spends money (directly or indirectly) for someone to carry their useless ass through Heroic Raid does not "ruin the game". I don't understand the level of toxic masculinity required to feel like your experience is -ruined- by something that has absolutely no effect on you or your gameplay at all.

[stomination]

that's essentially commiting suicide. You're never going to retain 100% so not gaining any new players means at some point you're not going to be able to cover costs.

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In what world is 3.7 million a lot?

Prime Earth.

[RoKPaNda]

Getting shat worldwide by FF and Lost Ark since 2020 but ok

As cute of an idea as this is, FF is pretty dead. It's basically at the point that retail WoW is in but it's also had an expansion much more recently than WoW. It's a fine game, but it's in a bad way right now. Lost Ark is still doing okay.

I don't know what's the deal with people who stop playing wow that they get so unbelievably triggered to the point that they refuse to accept people playing it because they like it.

It's so fucking beyond me. Someone plays WoW? "They are in a toxic relationship with the game!!!!1" - says the person who can't let go and keeps shitting on WoW forums years after "quitting".

I never understood this either. When I stop doing an activity I don't go to the forums for it and tell everyone else how great I am for quitting. But you'll find people actively subbed to WoW who do this too. Just last night while standing outside BT with literally thousands of players as far as the eye could see between the summoning stone and the entrance, laggy as fuck from all the people on screen, I had a guy in my guild telling me how nobody plays Classic anymore. Some people seem to just get off on being overly negative and not letting people enjoy things.

Let's face it; most people still around from the early days of the game are 40+ year olds who start not even gaming anymore; the younglings aren't few but they don't tend to stay especially since WoW is nothing too special in the context of new games.

An expansion that just has "dragons and Alex the hot!" is not going to cut it; it might have a small peak at launch but even that may be underwhelming; the new producers will likely pull the plug entirely and possibly try something extremely new.

The nature of "extremely new" is up in the air but I have some predictions; perhaps they will delete all technical notions of 'expansion' and release it only as 'Warcraft'; what do you think they might do?

I think your numbers might be a little off there. I'm 35 and there are a lot of people younger and older than me in my Classic guild. I'm also not sure where you got the idea that people stop playing games at 40? Maybe because when you were young it didn't seem like an activity that people did in their 40s, but gaming was a lot more niche activity back then in general. Now the SNES/Genesis generation of gamers is pushing 40 and they'll still probably be gaming in their 60s.

[Dioporco]

As cute of an idea as this is, FF is pretty dead.

[citation needed] because if FF is dead and at the same spot of Retail means that WoW is dead too.

[Vorkreist]

Dude what are you going on about the game has been p2w since it's inception. People have been buying gold from gold sellers since vanilla to skip game content and it is still going on in the classic servers. Also anyone that is serious about p2w is still buying from Chinese bot farmers on retail rather than the token because the exchange rate in comparison is pretty shite. Blizzard rarely cracks down on buyers unless you do something really dumb.

Why is it so hard to think for second ? You don't understand the difference between some random third party chinese bots and the game company itself implementing p2w features like token ?

[dacoolist]

wow is ded why even play right fam

people still complaining about subs and dont even own blizzard stonks lol

Do I think anything will change: No, they created where they are now and nothing will change, if we are at the lowest subs in history.. I guess all the cry babies left so that the people still playing can have fun? GGCLOSE

[Jester Joe]

Health of the game?

I be shocked if there is 1million people left playing the game(still profitable)

There's easily more than 1m players.

That's like, the level of participation in m+ for unique characters in m+, and considering not everyone does m+.

[Vorkreist]

The fact that some shitter spends money (directly or indirectly) for someone to carry their useless ass through Heroic Raid does not "ruin the game". I don't understand the level of toxic masculinity required to feel like your experience is -ruined- by something that has absolutely no effect on you or your gameplay at all.

It ruins the game by becoming a more widespread phenomenon with Blizzard's golden seal of approval involved. Back in the day less people did it when they risked a ban or account hack from third party sellers.

[Yriel]

It was, that's why I used past tense. But for a PC game - with an added subscription! - it still sold pretty darn well.

It sold pretty darn well on release day. I don't think that is surprising since everyone buys an MMO expansion the day it releases. Thats different with single player games, there it really doesn't matter if you buy the game a few days later but in an MMO you are pretty much cut off from playing if you don't have the expansion.
And no one would wait a few months to buy an expansion during a sale or something but people do that on a regular basis with other games.
So MMO expansions will probably have a much much more compressed sales window, they will probably sell almost all copies on the release day and not much in the days and weeks thereafter. And i guess thats why this news was worded so strangely by Blizzard.

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That's like, the level of participation in m+ for unique characters in m+, and considering not everyone does m+.

Unique characters != unique accounts.
People are doing M+ on several alts i imagine.

[Skylarking]

Why is it so hard to think for second ? You don't understand the difference between some random third party chinese bots and the game company itself implementing p2w features like token ?

Alright what is the difference?

[Rageonit]

It sold pretty darn well on release day. I don't think that is surprising since everyone buys an MMO expansion the day it releases. Thats different with single player games, there it really doesn't matter if you buy the game a few days later but in an MMO you are pretty much cut off from playing if you don't have the expansion.
And no one would wait a few months to buy an expansion during a sale or something but people do that on a regular basis with other games.
So MMO expansions will probably have a much much more compressed sales window, they will probably sell almost all copies on the release day and not much in the days and weeks thereafter. And i guess thats why this news was worded so strangely by Blizzard.

Those are speculations, nothing else. Yes, there are reasons to think an expansion will sell best on release day (since it will be bought by all the people who are already playing), but you have zero reliable information on how it sold later. For reference, Warth sold what, 2.4 million copies on release - and peaked at 12 million subscribers. I do believe there are actually plenty of people who don't care to play on a daily basis and will buy an expansion whenever they feel like it, complete the single player campaign with an alt or two, do a couple of dungeons maybe and unsubscribe until next expansion. This is of course anecdotal, so doesn't prove anything, but I know a couple of former WoW players (now adults with less time to spare) who do just that, because - while not having time to raid/m+/PvP - they still enjoy the Warcraft universe.

[cityguy193]

[citation needed] because if FF is dead and at the same spot of Retail means that WoW is dead too.

Its funny because FFXIV is actually outperforming wow in streaming views this week, and had nearly 100k viewers yesterday on twitch. People are stuck in their own isolated shit bubble and dont even wanna open their eyes to anything outside.

[TheRevenantHero]

Alright what is the difference?

The former will get you banned. Blizzard's p2w is ok because they're the ones getting the money.

[Skylarking]

The former will get you banned. Blizzard's p2w is ok because they're the ones getting the money.

if it gets you banned then why do so many people do it

[cityguy193]

if it gets you banned then why do so many people do it

Mutiboxing was allowed until it wasnt (likely due to years of complaints by the community). They determined the money lost was not offset by the money gained and made a change.

[Jester Joe]

Unique characters != unique accounts.
People are doing M+ on several alts i imagine.

You imagine, but there's no way to tell the amount and even if we assume half, last I checked that would still put it at about 600k, which you'd also have to factor in how many people don't even step into m+.

Even being overly pessimistic, it's still gonna be at least a million.

[Zenfoldor]

Your first paragraph nails it. WoW can't compete with today's games and is only really popular among addicts and sunk costees.

So it's become more a niche hobby some people are clinging to for almost 2 decades. I think WoW can survive among niche hobbyist, but Blizzard should scrap any ideas of a revival, even an absolutely slapping expansion will not create more first time players, just bring old players back who don't play but still check up on forums and stuff like me.

It's hard selling a game created in 2004 to people born after 2004. It's hard seeing WoWs graphics (people's first impressions btw) be comparable to xbox-360 graphics. People were spoiled by great graphic RPGs like Skyrim over a decade ago, WoW hasn't gotten more popular since then.

They should scrap wow after the next xpak and start building WoW 2.

Current wow really isn't JUST a 2004 super old game, that's an oversimplification. Each xpak changes it and modernizes it(for better or worse). However, the perception that this game is tired and old will live on as long as there isn't a number 2 after the name.

If they want a revitalization, they need to make the game seem new. There's a reason they don't just release more levels for Diablo 3 or Call of Duty, but instead create Diablo 4. They need to get rid of the dated perceptions around the game, and it will be revitalized. Most people who would come back aren't even paying attention to the actual game, just the perception that it is old and tired and bad. The game doesn't even have to be good, just new and a big IP to pop huge numbers. If it happens to also be good, all the better.

Is it really saving them that much time keeping the old engine on life support, at the cost of relevance in modern gaming. It seems like after a certain point, just updating the old stuff would kinda obviously be a bad business strategy for the future health of the IP.

[rrayy]

They should scrap wow after the next xpak and start building WoW 2.

Current wow really isn't JUST a 2004 super old game, that's an oversimplification. Each xpak changes it and modernizes it(for better or worse). However, the perception that this game is tired and old will live on as long as there isn't a number 2 after the name.

If they want a revitalization, they need to make the game seem new. There's a reason they don't just release more levels for Diablo 3 or Call of Duty, but instead create Diablo 4. They need to get rid of the dated perceptions around the game, and it will be revitalized. Most people who would come back aren't even paying attention to the actual game, just the perception that it is old and tired and bad.

They are never gpoing to make a WoW2. Nobody is going to give up their characters and start all over again in a brand new gear. They certainly aren't going to scrap ex-ansions that make money for a new game that is no guarantee it will make money at all.

[Utrrabbit]

Even Vanilla looks jaw-dropping at times, and I mean actual Vanilla, without Classic polish (which made everything so much better).

The environment design has always carried the game. Expansion after Expansion. Solid core aesthetics that havent' been compromised on, at least not by a whole lot.

And Blizzard is missing a trick here. They're letting all these beautiful zones rot away as levelling content alts are being rushed through rather than reintroduce them as fresh world quest zones.

That is players choice. You can choose to not rush through the content.

I rush on certain toons simple cause I like to see how quickly I can do it. Does not mean I do not have toons I di not take my time with.

Currently I am in the process of unlocking dark iron dwarves so I can lvl a paladin (my 6th paladin). I am planning on lvling it through wrath doing every single quest. Taking my time to read them all again after about 5 years of not doing the zones.