So you take PR speech and interviews over the actual developers' words and canon lore of the game that clearly state that dracthyr are not dragons because they're hybrids? That's like saying Draconids are dragons. Or that dragonmen are dragons.
I follow the canon lore of the game, that clearly and unambiguously states the dracthyr are not dragons.
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Maybe you should take your own advice, then.
I only stated facts.Some of your statements above are a prime example of not having a clue about what is going on with this class.
• Dracthyr not being actual dragons: fact. They're hybrids, not dragons.
• Dracthyr being too thin: fact. Scale a dragon down to their size and compare their bodies' thickness.
• Dracthyr doesn't look like a WoW dragon: fact. Put both (dracthyr and dragon) side-by-side. The dracthyr resemble more the Elder Scrolls' argonians with a bit more color and wings than an actual dragon.
They really aren't. If you can't see the differences in structure and positioning, there's not much I can do to help you.
Look at the shoulders into the upper arms--on the meta they go straight out and then forwards, the palms are outwards, the hands (at the sides, reach all the way past the ground nearly to the knees; on the Dracthyr the upper arms go backwards, the arms themselves are significantly shorter, the hands are facing palm straight down.
The upper leg of the meta is extremely long, then the backwards bend is short and the bottom leg is long. On the Dracthyr the upper leg is quite short and then the middle and bottom sections are both long. The legs are turned more outwards (look at the direction the front foot is facing for both, nearly towards the camera for the meta and firmly diagonally right for the Dracthyr) and the stance is spread out farther because the Dracthyr is much taller proportionally so the triangle formed by the legs has a much milder angle. The meta has a very stocky, short torso, its groin is practically in its belly button and chest right above that, the Dracthyr's torso is normal humanoid proportions.
They are not the same skeleton. They just have vaguely similar combat ready stances and the same backwards-bending legs. They aren't any closer together than ANY model that uses backwards bending legs. Draenei, Worgen, Satyr, Sylvar. Apparently people just have trouble telling anything with extra joints apart.
You can see here that Dracthyr are literally closer to the Sylvar model/skeleton than the meta one.
As a long time shaman player, I've seen that if you don't make all the noise you can as soon as issue appears, Blizz will ignore and say everything is fine, till the end of the expansion with the data proving they were wrong all along...
Restrictions sometimes work, in their latest experiments (lifting race/class restrictions) we can see that more choices for players are always received in a positive light. While the restrictions to convey fantasy usually end in backlash.
The customization could help current model but if the base Is wrong no matter how much paint you throw at it, the result will be ugly.
A Lot of people will want to try the new class, to try something shiny not for any dragon fantasy. Tying class and race they're making sure if one fails, both will.
For me it is again void elf/high elf fiasco. Again, we are settling with compromise. Another asspulled race instead of the real thing. I am already repeating myself, but everything could work even with quadrupedal dragon form, if they put mind into it.
edit: haha lol, i am just again talking about compromises and you happen to have my quote in you signature. I feel honored
I'd prefer a new class that has 3 specs and more race options. So far, I don't like it.
It's how the VENGEANCE stands, you absolute dork. You know, the model YOU linked claiming it was the same thing because it was "totally the same animation"?
But no, the havoc version isn't any closer.
You can't have the same rig "with new dimensions" if you're having to change the dimension you're having to change the rig. Literally nothing matches up size wise, not the torso, the abdomen, the leg sections, the arms, the hands, the finger lengths, the shoulder placement, the necks, the head.
Do you know what it's called when you have to set a new line for every piece of the skeleton? A new rig.
Uh, those are from the developers. Pretty much all of the developers say that they are dragons, and the race and class gives us the fantasy of being a dragon.
Can you provide a link where a developer says that Dracthyrs are NOT dragons?
Blizzard controls the lore. Blizzard is fully capable of expanding the lore to include Dracthyr as dragons. Which they apparently have done.I follow the canon lore of the game, that clearly and unambiguously states the dracthyr are not dragons.
None of these are facts.I only stated facts.
• Dracthyr not being actual dragons: fact. They're hybrids, not dragons.
• Dracthyr being too thin: fact. Scale a dragon down to their size and compare their bodies' thickness.
• Dracthyr doesn't look like a WoW dragon: fact. Put both (dracthyr and dragon) side-by-side. The dracthyr resemble more the Elder Scrolls' argonians with a bit more color and wings than an actual dragon.
1. Blizzard disagrees.
2. Opinion, and we haven't seen them in-game to draw that conclusion.
3. What a "WoW Dragon" looks like is completely up for interpretation.
Uh, that is an opinion. Especially since you haven't seen them in their completed form yet.
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I can't agree with that. Look at Monks; They're available to all races, yet their generality makes them feel generic. Meanwhile, the most popular class in the game, Druids have the highest amount of race restrictions. Why? Because it enhances the class fantasy.
Again, I would wait for a more finalized version to make that claim. Here's is how the faces look in high-res;The customization could help current model but if the base Is wrong no matter how much paint you throw at it, the result will be ugly.
I would hardly call those faces hideous.
Again, see the Druid example, it completely depends on how well Blizzard can convey the fantasy of being a dragon. If they can accomplish it (which I believe they can), the restrictions aren't going to matter.A Lot of people will want to try the new class, to try something shiny not for any dragon fantasy. Tying class and race they're making sure if one fails, both will.
Problem is Blizz sucks at compromising. Their version of compromise Is my way or the highway, till the data shows the backlash and they bandaid the problem, that's why this is the right time to be vocal about the new race.
Signature: You summarized the issue with compromise from Blizz so perfectly, that it applies all over again with the new race.
Interesting to see the 50/50 split in the poll. Overall, I'm really excited to play a Dracthyr Evoker.
What I like:
1. How close the model gets to capturing the dragon fantasy. While not being as effective as a traditional four-legged dragon, I do think the current model is more effective than, say, a Drakonid. The Drakonids are awesome but feel more like a "dragonman" hybrid to me. The Dracthyr feels like a regular dragon just stood up on its back two legs. I like it.
2. How colorful it is. While some of the visage customizations seem goofy, other previewed options seem like they work really well.
3. The fact they created a unique class for the race. I don't want to be a dragon that has to fight with swords, or a dragon casting traditional spells; I want to be a dragon breathing fire, fighting with my claws and wings. From what we've seen, I think the evoker is an effective way to get as close to a dragon fantasy as possible.
What I think could be improved:
1. Body plans/structure. I don't mind the slender build, but I think increased customization is ALWAYS a good thing for players, so I'm supportive of requests to add bulkier body options.
2. More ferocious-looking face options. I would love to have Deathwing-chin options. Also fangs that constantly jut out of the mouth even when it's closed, like in-game dragons or real life crocodilians do.
3. In-combat visage form. While I support the Evoker class only being available to the Dracthyr race, I don't see anything wrong with enabling visage form in combat so that the class is a tiny bit more accessible by players who don't enjoy the Dracthyr form. As others have suggested, just let the visage form shift into dragon form for certain dragon spells, a la metamorphosis.
Overall, pretty excited.
Ion just confirmed the 3rd Black dragonflight spec is very unlikely as this is focused on spellcasting.
In interviews and PR speech. In the deep-dive and the actual lore of the race, they're not dragons.
The simple fact you have to ask shows you completely ignore what doesn't go along your narrative:Can you provide a link where a developer says that Dracthyrs are NOT dragons?
You're wrong. They do. If you watched the deep-dive and learned the lore of the race, you'd see that. But you ignore what goes against your narrative.1. Blizzard disagrees.
It's not opinion, it's fact. And we have seen them in-game. Again, did you not watch the deep-dive video where they show us the dracthyr in-game?2. Opinion, and we haven't seen them in-game to draw that conclusion.
It's not, though. Dragons are already defined in the game and lore. We have dragons in the game. We have seen them. We know how they look like.3. What a "WoW Dragon" looks like is completely up for interpretation.
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Which are based off the draenei skeleton so we still have reused skeletons, even if what you say is correct.
But I still believe that the dracthyr's dragonic form is based off the DH's meta.
I guess we'll see once the open beta starts.
The first quote where they say that they are playable dragons comes from the deep-dive.
Where in there does it literally say that Dracthyrs are not dragons?The simple fact you have to ask shows you completely ignore what doesn't go along your narrative:
I’ve provided a quote from the dev deep-dive where they say that the Dracthyr ARE dragons.
The heads doesn't look that bad alone, but with the proportions of the whole body they look bad. Also, this Is personal opinion, they look too friendly not like dragons but happy lizards.
Druids have needed the biggest number of race restrictions lifted, and the responde to that has been overall positive.
I would dare to say they're aware of the initial bad reception, to the point they announced a presentation to specially adress new race concerns in today's Q&A
Okay, but don't you think they will have varied proportions and more stern faces? They've already stated that there will be a more bulky option, and all WoW races have more "evil" facial appearances.
They still have the lowest number of available races by far, yet they have the highest level of class fantasy. That alongside their versatility is why they're the most popular class.Druids have needed the biggest number of race restrictions lifted, and the responde to that has been overall positive.
The only thing that could potentially hurt the Evoker is the lack of a third spec. However, due to the sheer glut of tank and melee specs in WoW, even that may not be a deterrent. Also them starting at such a high level (and completely bypassing Shadowlands) gives them a huge leg up on other classes.
Well we'll see what they're going to talk about. I think most of it is going to be clarification instead of new revelations.I would dare to say they're aware of the initial bad reception, to the point they announced a presentation to specially adress new race concerns in today's Q&A