[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[cubby]

And come on - you also posted knowing exactly the response you were going to get. You weren't posting expecting no response at all in an otherwise 'pretty dead' thread on a discussion everyone already beat to death in the prior 100 pages.

So don't act like 'the haters' showing up was any sort of surprise or anything different than what you were (at best) expecting and/or (at worst) hoping for. Otherwise why post on a public forum at all?

Because yeah - duh - you're going to get (mostly) the same responses you got before when we spent dozens and dozens of pages beating it to death. I mean I don't know why you want to spend another dozen pages doing the same thing over again but *shrugs* you posted, not me. So enjoy I guess?

No, I posted hoping for the adult conversation about a divisive topic - which, save one person, we got. The haters comment was a poor communication on my part - I was referring, poorly, to an article I had just seen.

I posted to continue the conversation and see if others would chime in.

Truth there! GRRM would (will - hush I'm still hoping; I'm a King fan, I've waited 10+ years between books before - LOL) most certainly be killing off way more characters than guys on TV (producers, writers, directors, doesn't matter) are comfortable with.

I mean I do understand why TV shows don't like killing off main (or even popular secondary) characters; kill off too many fan favs, piss off too many fans, and they won't keep watching as they don't feel invested in new characters/don't want to devote the time if they are all 'killed off anyway' (all examples: The Walking Dead) -- but still, its one of those more difficult 'rules' to start poking a stick at when you're switching between the medias (books vs. serial productions).

I'm not terrified to see how GRRM ends this and who he offs and how - I'm more terrified we won't see any of it at all. But I'm still hoping.

I really don't think GRRM is going to finish the book series, to even my dismay (being someone who hasn't read, and probably won't read, the series). He really does owe his readers a proper book finish. But he's old, out of shape, and living [a much deserved] Hollywood life now. I believe he's pumped out a few books since GoT Book 5. So we know he can write, I think he just doesn't want to do the work anymore.

Totally agree that TV shows are completely adverse to killing off main characters, for good reason. GRRM might be the all time champ in that regard.

[Rollo]

I think the above and the other two you referenced are good reasons why the show was rushed a bit. Costs and fatigue were big issues. And given that D&D weren't working with existing material, they had the opportunity to wrap it up.

Not only that, but D&D had stuff lined up for themselves as well (I'm sure this has been brought up somewhere in the last 1400+ pages). If I'm not mistaken, they originally had a contract to work with Disney in developing new Star Wars content, up to and including the potential for a new trilogy. Disney wouldn't let them get to that until GoT was done. Then they 'split' amicably and never got to develop the Star Wars content.

[eschatological]

-snip-

The eighth season was bad (hell, I'm one of the ones who thought everything after s4 was bad when Arya Terminator ran through Braavos, fell in dirty canal water after being brutally gut shanked, and then was fine an episode later), but this reads like some weird fan fiction.

Why would Bran just happen to be perusing the Mad King at that moment? Where are you getting the idea that "dying under weirwood traps a soul between places." There's not even an indication of anything actually supernatural/divine/afterlife-y in ASoiAF, except maybe Azor Ahai whose red priests definitely seem to have some powers - but again, that can be magic tied to the existence of dragons, which is what the books literally say.

[Wonderment2]

True to them all, I was just trying to be polite. No character steered off their arc.

Jamie Lancaster literally 180'd one of his defining moments

[cubby]

Not only that, but D&D had stuff lined up for themselves as well (I'm sure this has been brought up somewhere in the last 1400+ pages). If I'm not mistaken, they originally had a contract to work with Disney in developing new Star Wars content, up to and including the potential for a new trilogy. Disney wouldn't let them get to that until GoT was done. Then they 'split' amicably and never got to develop the Star Wars content.

They did - yeah. I think a few people mentioned in this thread that D&D were ready to be done. 10 years is a LONG time. And no source material, outside of GRRM notes, makes for a nice shortcut.

D&D got wooed by Netflix to do several projects.

- - - Updated - - -

Jamie Lancaster literally 180'd one of his defining moments

In what way?

[Wonderment2]

They did - yeah. I think a few people mentioned in this thread that D&D were ready to be done. 10 years is a LONG time. And no source material, outside of GRRM notes, makes for a nice shortcut.

D&D got wooed by Netflix to do several projects.

- - - Updated - - -

In what way?

Jamie commits the biggest stain on his honour in order to save the people in kings landing when he slays the king.

In the final few episodes he says "To be honest I've never really cared much for them, innocent or otherwise."

Which is pretty explicitly going back on the first thing....

[Wonderment2]

I agree, it’s weird… but in the end he regains that honor when Brie, in the Book of Brothers, writes about him trying to save the Queen and being at her side during her final moments, which presumably makes up for him "unjustly" slaying a King.

It’s supposed to show him regaining his honor with the people, rather than the viewers…

I'm less talking about the regaining honour over the motivation. "evil" Jamie willing took a massive personal blow to save civilians. "Redeemed" Jamie says he doesn't care about them while riding off to fuck his sister.

Edit: I'd forgotten what Brie says in the books. Even if that's the plan still pretty strange idea.... not sure how standing next to the queen when she dies is redemptive. Especially when it's his sister-wife.

[Varodoc]

Thread's to big to read through haha, I just got in. But yes, I agree. I do however remember a lot of wishes I had watching the last season. When we only had the trailer for the episode after the fall of the Night King, I remember a reddit thread which affected my experience a lot. It was long and detailed, but in essence it said that Jorah was seemingly stabbed in the heart with Dragon Glass (the way white walkers were created) and that the Night King also died under weirwood, which makes the soul trapped between the realms or unable to move along completely. And since they were about to burn all the corpses on the pyres outside Winterfell, the Night King would manifest through Jorah's corpse and start raising all the corpses. At this same moment Bran was in the past looking at the Mad King while also being able to see/feel the present. This made him shout "BURN THEM ALL!" which then also affected the Mad King in the past, creating a "the end is the beginning" type of story. Watching back then, I didn't just want this outcome, I sat there expecting it, right. Because this was a show that rarely disappointed and this was fan fiction but the real show would surely do better than that if not exactly that, in my mind. This time around, years later, I of course had it in the back of my mind, but I knew not to expect it and for the first time watched it all with some kind of a objective viewing. At least I gave a thousand less fucks, to put it simply. But there are some shit moments, like the Jon Snow heroic moment drowning in ice, being saved by Benjen only to kill off Benjen two secs later. It makes zero sense to put it there.

Pretty much everyone thought that the Night King could still be alive in some form after 8x03.

You know, when you hype a certain character as this almighty and unbeatable 8000 years old God of Death who threatens the entire planet, people have high expectations; naturally, when you have said character get destroyed by a literal teenager wielding a kitchen knife, people will likewise wonder if that's really the end of it.

What's funny is that even the writers said something along the lines of "maybe the White Walkers are not done yet" after 8x03 aired, but even that in the end was just an empty and sad attempt at keeping people hyped after you unceremoniously killed the overarching villain of the show.

So really it's not a surprise that everyone thought there would be more to the Night King, but in the end there wasn't. This God of Death who has been plotting and scheming for 8000 years and has command over Death and Winter was indeed destroyed by a teenager ninja.

Now I'm feeling the same way with N'Zoth. I can't accept that the most cunning and hyped Old God was destroyed by a simple kamehameha blast travesty so I do believe he's still around in some form. Then again, Danuser liked Season 8, so genuinely who knows.

[fazaim]

The eighth season was bad (hell, I'm one of the ones who thought everything after s4 was bad when Arya Terminator ran through Braavos, fell in dirty canal water after being brutally gut shanked, and then was fine an episode later), but this reads like some weird fan fiction.

Why would Bran just happen to be perusing the Mad King at that moment? Where are you getting the idea that "dying under weirwood traps a soul between places." There's not even an indication of anything actually supernatural/divine/afterlife-y in ASoiAF, except maybe Azor Ahai whose red priests definitely seem to have some powers - but again, that can be magic tied to the existence of dragons, which is what the books literally say.

It is fanfic from reddit, it's exactly what my point is about: fanfic being better than what we got. Why would anything in fiction just happen to be at any given moment? Where are you getting the idea that what the books literally say is what would end up in the series?

- - - Updated - - -

Now I'm feeling the same way with N'Zoth. I can't accept that the most cunning and hyped Old God was destroyed by a simple kamehameha blast travesty so I do believe he's still around in some form. Then again, Danuser liked Season 8, so genuinely who knows.

Yes, I get you. I didn't play or bother or imagine coming back at that point, but was surprised N'Zoth showed up at all only to die. Hakkar's been back a bunch of times so I guess there's always the possibility.

[Ihavewaffles]

Daenerys did nothing wrong.

That's medieval warfare, jon snow n tyrion were the weird ones. Look how fast the northerners n the vale knights join the unsullied, at once, it was only jon n tyr that reacted differently.

[cubby]

Pretty much everyone thought that the Night King could still be alive in some form after 8x03.

I've been in and out of this thread for years, and you're the first person to even suggest that the Night King could have still been alive after S8E3.

- - - Updated - - -

Daenerys did nothing wrong.

That's medieval warfare, jon snow n tyrion were the weird ones. Look how fast the northerners n the vale knights join the unsullied, at once, it was only jon n tyr that reacted differently.

She burned a city of innocents. After being told and shown that they had surrendered. She literally did the very thing she claimed to not be for 7 seasons. That's the whole point - she became the thing she dreaded most - her father.

- - - Updated - - -

Jamie commits the biggest stain on his honour in order to save the people in kings landing when he slays the king.

In the final few episodes he says "To be honest I've never really cared much for them, innocent or otherwise."

Which is pretty explicitly going back on the first thing....

He was always of two minds though - the sister-fucking killer, and then the hidden honorable kingslayer. He proved his inner honor by going up to fight the dead in Winterfell. But in the end, Jamie always loved Cersi - his return to her was a solid character arc closing. All throughout the series he continued to say Cersi is all he cared about.

However, that line you mentioned and the one where Jamie takes RiverRun from the Fish (??) - when he has the guy who was kidnapped at the Red Wedding, and told him he'd do anything to get back to Cersi. Do you remember that scene?

[RobertoCarlos]

Even brienne felt the need to retcon Jamie's ending. "he went to go be with his queen" barf.

Jamie was never a good guy but saying "fuck the people" after years of carrying the king slayer title was just badly done and undone one of the better arcs in the series

[Wonderment2]

I've been in and out of this thread for years, and you're the first person to even suggest that the Night King could have still been alive after S8E3.

- - - Updated - - -



She burned a city of innocents. After being told and shown that they had surrendered. She literally did the very thing she claimed to not be for 7 seasons. That's the whole point - she became the thing she dreaded most - her father.

- - - Updated - - -



He was always of two minds though - the sister-fucking killer, and then the hidden honorable kingslayer. He proved his inner honor by going up to fight the dead in Winterfell. But in the end, Jamie always loved Cersi - his return to her was a solid character arc closing. All throughout the series he continued to say Cersi is all he cared about.

However, that line you mentioned and the one where Jamie takes RiverRun from the Fish (??) - when he has the guy who was kidnapped at the Red Wedding, and told him he'd do anything to get back to Cersi. Do you remember that scene?

Yea I remember the bad conclusion to the siege of River Run.

It's as still a 180 on one core part of his character, he does actually care about people. Even in the Siege of River Run he tries to save lifes.....

Edit: Also he didn't need to claim he didn't care about civilians to go see his sister. They could have easily framed it as an attempt to do both.

[Koriani]

Not only that, but D&D had stuff lined up for themselves as well (I'm sure this has been brought up somewhere in the last 1400+ pages). If I'm not mistaken, they originally had a contract to work with Disney in developing new Star Wars content, up to and including the potential for a new trilogy. Disney wouldn't let them get to that until GoT was done. Then they 'split' amicably and never got to develop the Star Wars content.

Yeah - some media theorized (I don't know that an official reason was ever really given?? Or at least not then.) Disney dropped the D&D backed project because of the mess they made in the last season of GoT. D&D had often, publically, stated that even though HBO had given them more seasons they were going to wrap it up in 10 because they wanted move on to Star Wars with Disney now. And since that contract was immediately cancelled once GoT actually AIRED and the huge public outcry over the way the series ended - meant heck yeah, the public and media all wondered if it was that backlash (or the lack of quality itself) that caused them to lose their contract.

Me - I found it more amusing karma. I'd love it if it were actually the reason they lost the contract - but its probably not much, if anything, to do with it at all.

No, I posted hoping for the adult conversation about a divisive topic - which, save one person, we got. The haters comment was a poor communication on my part - I was referring, poorly, to an article I had just seen.

I posted to continue the conversation and see if others would chime in.

I guess for me it was more of a "Ok you (cubby) started up the exact 'divisive' topic we discussed years ago, with the exact same opinion, in the exact same place, and somehow want to act surprised/not happy/disappointed in the fact that those responding are also sharing their same negative opinions you didn't agree with the first time - again."

I mean yeah you'll get some fair/adult (however you call it) discussion - which is again - the same as it was before (agreeing that D&D rushed things even if characters may have gotten there anyway, etc.) but you're also going to get the 'haters' you got before. No need to repost my novella when I explained myself the first time we discussed this back then (which got you to the agreement point of things being rushed, etc.) but years later without a rewatch - most people have nothing more to add; as that's the same thing I'd say over again... again. =D

Which is all fine and dandy - its a discussion forum. I guess I was more put off and 'rolling my eyes' at your seemingly surprised and/or frustrated reaction that you didn't get JUST the 'adult discussion' part. And that rang disingenuous to me - cuz you know this place (the internet and this forum) and I consider you smarter than that. (lol) I was more like "Seriously? You thought this would be different? Why you stirring the hornets if you don't want to swat at them."

BTW - Martin is a 'big one' to kill off main characters, for sure, but he isn't the Champ of it yet (not enough books LOL) - Stephen King is the KING of this. IMO. He's got over 50 books (over 60? can't remember) and he still surprises me with a turn of a page and BAM a main character dead in an single sentence. You'd think I'd be use to it by now! Nope, he still surprises sometimes! =D

Red Wedding though - that scene (book or show - the show really /did/ do that whole scene from the book justice at least) - definitely in a very small, select, group of book events that just "takes the (wedding) cake" for IMPACT on the reader/watcher and to your book/series plot as a whole. I was (literally) waiting the entire series and NOT spoiling it for hubby and other non-reading watchers, waiting on that Wedding scene, and waiting to see their reaction (and if the show did it justice, which happily, it did.). Just, applause all around for GRRM's storytelling and then D&D for just following the scene 'as written' (for the most part) because it didn't need anything other than to just be translated to screen.

Which really gets to the heart of all the 'haters', IMO. That 'rushing the story' being such a disappointment and a disservice to the story itself; after so many higher-quality seasons. Always remember - all those that now 'hate' the show, that's how much love they had before they were let down. They never wanted to hate the show - they invested the years, invested their hearts, and just wanted that 'respected' - by the actors, writers, and showrunners. To respect your fans. And we/they weren't. And D&D made mulitple public statements so that the fans KNEW they weren't being respected or even thought of - this was just a 'rush job' and D&D no longer cared about that investment, because it became an inconvenience for them. And that's what really sucks - IMO. "It coulda' been so different..." (Makes me think of "--I could'a been a contender...") cie' la vie.

I'll lose the same respect for Martin if he goes on to write other books and never finishes this series. Because then yeah, you're disrespecting your fans. The time, heart, and yeah money - they've invested in you, for you to not finish what you started - that's bullshit. At least King was honest about why it took him so long to get to the next book in the Dark Tower, his fears as well as the 'immortal' (I'll get to it later...then later...then later..) life, that it took a van almost killing him to 'wake him up' and make him realize he /needed/ to finish the story. That he owed it to the story and to his fans, and himself - and that there might not be a 'later'. (That was the one we waited more than 10 years for between books in the series.) So I still respect GRRM - because he's not dead yet and this 'ending' hasn't been written. He can do all the other projects he wants, other authors do too, but damnit - get back and finish THIS story in there somewhere. Don't leave that bitter taste in your fans' mouths, man... heh.

[Varodoc]

I've been in and out of this thread for years, and you're the first person to even suggest that the Night King could have still been alive after S8E3.

Yeah but you're also a shill for DnD so I don't really care, I'm sure I wasn't the only one and this is just sad damage control on your part.

[cubby]

Yea I remember the bad conclusion to the siege of River Run.

It's as still a 180 on one core part of his character, he does actually care about people. Even in the Siege of River Run he tries to save lifes.....

Edit: Also he didn't need to claim he didn't care about civilians to go see his sister. They could have easily framed it as an attempt to do both.

But at the same time, he doesn't care about all the innocents, just because of the Kingslayer story he told to Brienne. Jamie tried to kill children who threatened his family (Bran) and had done other nefarious "uncaring" things prior to that scene.

It is a complicated situation though, regarding his character arc. He was of two minds it seemed, but in the end he just wanted to be with his love.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah but you're also a shill for DnD so I don't really care, I'm sure I wasn't the only one and this is just sad damage control on your part.

Lovely.

We're having an adult conversation about the ending. If you need to attack people, please find another venue.

This is a discussion about GoT ending (and all other things GoT related) and people's opinions.

[Varodoc]

But at the same time, he doesn't care about all the innocents, just because of the Kingslayer story he told to Brienne. Jamie tried to kill children who threatened his family (Bran) and had done other nefarious "uncaring" things prior to that scene.

It is a complicated situation though, regarding his character arc. He was of two minds it seemed, but in the end he just wanted to be with his love.

- - - Updated - - -



Lovely.

We're having an adult conversation about the ending. If you need to attack people, please find another venue.

This is a discussion about GoT ending (and all other things GoT related) and people's opinions.

Well, this honestly went better than I thought.

I expected you to dismiss me as just another spiteful hater, as you have done several times in the past to others.

[cubby]

Yeah - some media theorized (I don't know that an official reason was ever really given?? Or at least not then.) Disney dropped the D&D backed project because of the mess they made in the last season of GoT. D&D had often, publically, stated that even though HBO had given them more seasons they were going to wrap it up in 10 because they wanted move on to Star Wars with Disney now. And since that contract was immediately cancelled once GoT actually AIRED and the huge public outcry over the way the series ended - meant heck yeah, the public and media all wondered if it was that backlash (or the lack of quality itself) that caused them to lose their contract.

D&D lost the Disney piece because Disney was walking away from trilogies in Star Wars. If you'll recall that's about when Solo came out and [for some reason] was a flop, and Kennedy decided to halt all Star Wars production and reevaluate the entire franchise. What people consistently (and sometimes willfully) forget is that Netflix bought D&D for something like $100MM+ to do multiple on-going and series/sequel projects. They were always a hot item, despite what the small crowd of GoT anti-D&D peeps thought of them.

I guess for me it was more of a "Ok you (cubby) started up the exact 'divisive' topic we discussed years ago, with the exact same opinion, in the exact same place, and somehow want to act surprised/not happy/disappointed in the fact that those responding are also sharing their same negative opinions you didn't agree with the first time - again."

I mean yeah you'll get some fair/adult (however you call it) discussion - which is again - the same as it was before (agreeing that D&D rushed things even if characters may have gotten there anyway, etc.) but you're also going to get the 'haters' you got before. No need to repost my novella when I explained myself the first time we discussed this back then (which got you to the agreement point of things being rushed, etc.) but years later without a rewatch - most people have nothing more to add; as that's the same thing I'd say over again... again. =D

Which is all fine and dandy - its a discussion forum. I guess I was more put off and 'rolling my eyes' at your seemingly surprised and/or frustrated reaction that you didn't get JUST the 'adult discussion' part. And that rang disingenuous to me - cuz you know this place (the internet and this forum) and I consider you smarter than that. (lol) I was more like "Seriously? You thought this would be different? Why you stirring the hornets if you don't want to swat at them."

I was happy and delighted that we got fresh faces and voices to discuss the topic. As well as new opinions and ideas. There is no reason to revisit an "old" topic and see what people are thinking. In this short revitalized stint we've see at least one person who recently rewatched and actually enjoyed it more than they remembered.

So that was the point. My frustration is that a small minority of non-constructive contributors continue to attempt to take away from a reasonable and "adult" conversation - which, for the most part, this has been.

BTW - Martin is a 'big one' to kill off main characters, for sure, but he isn't the Champ of it yet (not enough books LOL) - Stephen King is the KING of this. IMO. He's got over 50 books (over 60? can't remember) and he still surprises me with a turn of a page and BAM a main character dead in an single sentence. You'd think I'd be use to it by now! Nope, he still surprises sometimes! =D

Could not agree more! Stephen King was my first author that I loved, read all his stuff when I was kid, and then most of it since then (not as much the last decade though).

Which really gets to the heart of all the 'haters', IMO. That 'rushing the story' being such a disappointment and a disservice to the story itself; after so many higher-quality seasons. Always remember - all those that now 'hate' the show, that's how much love they had before they were let down. They never wanted to hate the show - they invested the years, invested their hearts, and just wanted that 'respected' - by the actors, writers, and showrunners. To respect your fans. And we/they weren't. And D&D made mulitple public statements so that the fans KNEW they weren't being respected or even thought of - this was just a 'rush job' and D&D no longer cared about that investment, because it became an inconvenience for them. And that's what really sucks - IMO. "It coulda' been so different..." (Makes me think of "--I could'a been a contender...") cie' la vie.

The point also being that several million people loved it and were not "let down". Something to keep in mind. The people who disliked/hated the ending are easily the most vocal of the entirety of GoT TV series fans.

I'll lose the same respect for Martin if he goes on to write other books and never finishes this series. Because then yeah, you're disrespecting your fans. The time, heart, and yeah money - they've invested in you, for you to not finish what you started - that's bullshit. At least King was honest about why it took him so long to get to the next book in the Dark Tower, his fears as well as the 'immortal' (I'll get to it later...then later...then later..) life, that it took a van almost killing him to 'wake him up' and make him realize he /needed/ to finish the story. That he owed it to the story and to his fans, and himself - and that there might not be a 'later'. (That was the one we waited more than 10 years for between books in the series.) So I still respect GRRM - because he's not dead yet and this 'ending' hasn't been written. He can do all the other projects he wants, other authors do too, but damnit - get back and finish THIS story in there somewhere. Don't leave that bitter taste in your fans' mouths, man... heh.

Then that respect is gone. GRRM has already published two books, since GoT #5 was released. I would bet good money that the series is never finished. I think he recently said that even book #6 has several hundred pages to go.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, this honestly went better than I thought.

I expected you to dismiss me as just another spiteful hater, as you have done several times in the past to others.

So far that's all you've been, I just tire of the childish hatred and personal attacks. The lies really don't help either, but we all are what we are - you may not be help yourself.

I just wish you'd take that energy and do something constructive with it - or, at the least, don't do something negative. I mean, you just posted:

Yeah but you're also a shill for DnD so I don't really care, I'm sure I wasn't the only one and this is just sad damage control on your part.

Why? What did that accomplish - it's shitty, negative, childish, a lie, and literally doesn't contribute to anything. Why would you spend you time like that?

[Varodoc]

D&D lost the Disney piece because Disney was walking away from trilogies in Star Wars. If you'll recall that's about when Solo came out and [for some reason] was a flop, and Kennedy decided to halt all Star Wars production and reevaluate the entire franchise. What people consistently (and sometimes willfully) forget is that Netflix bought D&D for something like $100MM+ to do multiple on-going and series/sequel projects. They were always a hot item, despite what the small crowd of GoT anti-D&D peeps thought of them.



I was happy and delighted that we got fresh faces and voices to discuss the topic. As well as new opinions and ideas. There is no reason to revisit an "old" topic and see what people are thinking. In this short revitalized stint we've see at least one person who recently rewatched and actually enjoyed it more than they remembered.

So that was the point. My frustration is that a small minority of non-constructive contributors continue to attempt to take away from a reasonable and "adult" conversation - which, for the most part, this has been.



Could not agree more! Stephen King was my first author that I loved, read all his stuff when I was kid, and then most of it since then (not as much the last decade though).



The point also being that several million people loved it and were not "let down". Something to keep in mind. The people who disliked/hated the ending are easily the most vocal of the entirety of GoT TV series fans.




Then that respect is gone. GRRM has already published two books, since GoT #5 was released. I would bet good money that the series is never finished. I think he recently said that even book #6 has several hundred pages to go.

- - - Updated - - -



So far that's all you've been, I just tire of the childish hatred and personal attacks. The lies really don't help either, but we all are what we are - you may not be help yourself.

I just wish you'd take that energy and do something constructive with it - or, at the least, don't do something negative. I mean, you just posted:

Why? What did that accomplish - it's shitty, negative, childish, a lie, and literally doesn't contribute to anything. Why would you spend you time like that?

You see, since I don't have boomer-level typing speed, it really takes me nothing to make fun of you every now and then. Like... 10 seconds for this post, although this one is shorter than usual.

But is truly a lie my friend? I've literally never seen you criticize the show despite the ample material available to talk about and you just dismiss anything as "vocal minority!!!"

Such a vocal minority that local newspapers were reporting the negative outrage S8 caused.

[Adamas102]

Yea I remember the bad conclusion to the siege of River Run.

It's as still a 180 on one core part of his character, he does actually care about people. Even in the Siege of River Run he tries to save lifes.....

Edit: Also he didn't need to claim he didn't care about civilians to go see his sister. They could have easily framed it as an attempt to do both.

Yeah, it's not a character arc if the character doesn't change due to the experience and growth they have over the course of the story. It's a narrative failure on the part of the show runners that they were unable to follow through on the path that was so clearly laid out before them. Breaking away from the toxic, selfish influences of his family and realigning his moral compass were the core parts of Jaime's arc.

There were a dozen things end-of-story Jaime could have done that would have been in line with his arc. Fumbling around a besieged King's Landing just to get to his sister after claiming that he didn't care about anyone else wasn't one of them.