What are the best ways to make the Alliance more popular and interesting?

[Ardenaso]

Alliance is riddled with real world politics. Because they have "Humans" Blizzard likes to force their political beliefs onto this race in the game.

which real world politics? like civil unrests, border conflicts, geopolitics, rebellions, insurrections, invasions, and genocides?

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Alliance is riddled with real world politics. Because they have "Humans" Blizzard likes to force their political beliefs onto this race in the game.

White stormwind civilians suddenly poc and done behind the scenes without any reason why or notice they were doing it which is really sus when you consider how many times they've tried to change shit without letting players know and the only reason we found out is cause some nerd was datamining.
Another example of this is a the paintings with fruit.

Is it a big deal Stormwind has POC? no of course not, the issue is Blizzard changed already existing NPCs instead of just adding new ones and that's fucking weird as hell. They proved they'll change whatever they want in order to incorporate their real life beliefs instead of keeping WoW a video game and world of it's own. Many players get pushed away by shit like this because when it comes to the Alliance Blizzard loves to do shit without keeping the lore in mind to what's actually logical.

Not that there's anything wrong with it... of course, but In a couple years I wouldn't be surprised if Anduin came out as gay and married a black trans woman.

It actually isn't, Varian and Anduin didn't have any problem with the house of Nobles or political opposition from inside Stormwind aside from Onyxia, they never faced true tensions or divergences from the rest of the Alliance, the dwarven and gnomish politics are cruelly underdevellopped, same for the Draenei and the Night Elves never had any political tensions without the opposition to Malfurion and Tyrande turning outright crazy and evil as seen with Fanfral and Maiev.

[Faerillis]

It actually isn't, Varian and Anduin didn't have any problem with the house of Nobles or political opposition from inside Stormwind aside from Onyxia, they never faced true tensions or divergences from the rest of the Alliance, the dwarven and gnomish politics are cruelly underdevellopped, same for the Draenei and the Night Elves never had any political tensions without the opposition to Malfurion and Tyrande turning outright crazy and evil as seen with Fanfral and Maiev.

Does the kind of statement dude made really make you think he's got a lot of grasp on material reality?

Just going back to your point, I don't think Alterac can reasonably considered part of the Alliance at this point. I'm sure there are citizen of Alterac with wants that could be interestingly developed. I also always felt a cool thing to explore in Night Elf society is that it really seems to have restratified with Druids as their new 'Highborne' and the office of High Priestess assuming an increasingly monarchic role; peeling that back and showing some resentment to it, while potentially remaining agnostic to it storywise (so she isn't instantly a villain) would be really cool.

And as I mentioned earlier in the thread, Turalyon was a massive missed opportunity for making the Alliance more interesting. The last huge figure from Lordaeron, the ultimate Paladin, discovers his homeland owned by the Undead and engaged in shady shit? Turalyon making a political play that would have lead to the Alliance attacking the Undercity without the Burning of Teldrassil as cause would have been a better story through and through. Gnomish politics too needs development, even if it's just spending the resources and having Gnomeregan actually rebuilt and playable. The Dwarves too need some love, though have at least the seeds of a far more interesting storyline than the Gnomes got.

[Feanoro]

Also still waiting for them to explain how full on warfare on Ashran which Horde started over Alliance digging up Ogre relics was not an act of full on war, but stealing azerite from goblins in Silithus was an act of war despite goblins actively attacking any Alliance forces in the area and kidnapping Alliance citizens.

What's to explain? For all the whining here about the Horde losing wars (because their endgame is exterminating everything not Horde), they constantly get away with massacres but the fans cry their eyes out if there's any retaliation.

The message since WC3 has been "The Alliance should not seek justice or fight back, or they're just as bad."

[Mehrunes]

«Instigator»? Being first somewhere does not equate instigation. Even stealing from goblins does not equate war, because if it does then Horde declared war on Alliance in WoD. Especially in neutral ground like Silithus. Also after recent political events i cant see this as anything but farce. By all measures horde fucked up and started the “hot” war while Alliance was sticking to cold war tactics, even if heavy handed.

Not to mention how your own faction admitted to it. I mean, you not being punished but the fact stays the fact. And not to even mention a genocide.

@Mehrunes

Mod edit: Please be respectful to your fellow posters.

"Noo... trawl? Bah, words for wimps! ALL LAND ORC LAND!"

This has been your guide to Horde geopolitics.

Right, right. Whatever allows you to pretend there's no difference between the entirety of Silithus and a Horde camp in Silithus. Except by this logic Horde did nothing wrong in Ashenvale Then again I have no clue about your motives.

Also still waiting for them to explain how full on warfare on Ashran which Horde started over Alliance digging up Ogre relics was not an act of full on war, but stealing azerite from goblins in Silithus was an act of war despite goblins actively attacking any Alliance forces in the area and kidnapping Alliance citizens.

Aaand you're back to lying about the chronology. In the span of just one post. Simply sublime. Makes your reply to me all the more valid /s And as has been pointed out multiple times throughout the years already (only for you lot to merrily ignore it because convenience) the factions actively cooperated right after WoD, clearly ignoring the dreadful conflict in Ashran. Why didn't Ashran instigate anything? Because the High King of the Alliance dropped the issue. And there's nothing you can do about it.

[Darth-Piekus]

What's to explain? For all the whining here about the Horde losing wars (because their endgame is exterminating everything not Horde), they constantly get away with massacres but the fans cry their eyes out if there's any retaliation.

The message since WC3 has been "The Alliance should not seek justice or fight back, or they're just as bad."

I don't think there is anything else to explain. The chronology of the events are clear with Gallywix's forces attacking the Expedition first and I don't see why are you guys still debating this. In my opinion it's the fault of Blizzard themselves leaving deliberately grey areas in the lore so some pro-keyboard RP Warriors here can claim that 1 Alliance crime=10 Horde Crimes and a Genocide is justified. Garrosh did nothing wrong, Sylvannas did nothing wrong, we all know the drill by now. Why do the Horde even bother to stop the Legion or the Jailer if their leaders did nothing wrong by spearheading their campaign? It's part of the plan after all to get rid of that mean Alliance who burned up Taurajo,killed poor Armed Goblin Civilians and closed the Orcs in camps am I right?

[Aydinx2]

Enable cross-faction so I can play it while still raiding with my friends.

[VladlTutushkin]

Uh-huh. That's why you tried to falsify the chronology by wrongly stating that Explorer's League was there before SI:7. Great defense for being called out on that. Not that this salvages anything, because the obvious point here is not just that the SI:7 was there first, but that it did the things mentioned by @Faerillis first. You know, things like killing Goblins to get samples of Azerite that they mined.




If by "stand" you mean "kill Horde civilians" then sure. Alas, why follow context of the discussion you're jumping on to throw shit at posters that offend you when you can limit your involvement just to the throwing shit at posters that offend you part.




Right, right. Whatever allows you to pretend there's no difference between the entirety of Silithus and a Horde camp in Silithus. Except by this logic Horde did nothing wrong in Ashenvale, so I'm not sure why you'd want to shoot yourself in the foot this way. Then again I have no clue about your motives regarding the 4639 other times you shot yourself in the foot, so this is just one more mystery to the pile.




Aaand you're back to lying about the chronology. In the span of just one post. Simply sublime. Makes your reply to me all the more valid /s And as has been pointed out multiple times throughout the years already (only for you lot to merrily ignore it because convenience) the factions actively cooperated right after WoD, clearly ignoring the dreadful conflict in Ashran (the only known casualty of which is a guy whose foot got hurt). Why didn't Ashran instigate anything? Because the High King of the Alliance dropped the issue. And there's nothing you can do about it.

The fact Anduin dropped the topic of Ashran does not make the “small war” there disappear. And i highly doubt that there was “only one casualty”.

If you brain somebody with a brick but they forgive you and drop the issue does not make it go away, it just means they were unnaturally forgiving (as Alliance always is).

Not to mention your rancid ass sarcasm being about as fresh and relevant as Joe Biden.

And if you genuinely think you are “clever” with it… wow, i mean, i have seen some overinflated egos and all but you just as high on your own farts as most of Blizz writing staff and its a very bad comparison.

[Darth-Piekus]

The fact Anduin dropped the topic of Ashran does not make the “small war” there disappear. And i highly doubt that there was “only one casualty”.

If you brain somebody with a brick but they forgive you and drop the issue does not make it go away, it just means they were unnaturally forgiving (as Alliance always is).

Not to mention your rancid ass sarcasm being about as fresh and relevant as Joe Biden.

And if you genuinely think you are “clever” with it… wow, i mean, i have seen some overinflated egos and all but you just as high on your own farts as most of Blizz writing staff and its a very bad comparison.

Unfortunately those kinds of individuals is the reason we got the Garrosh and Sylvannas did nothing wrong bandwagons which led to shitty expansions because Blizzard had to pamper their absurd needs. To make matters worse the story and the majority of the playerbase had to pay the price.

[VladlTutushkin]

Unfortunately those kinds of individuals is the reason we got the Garrosh and Sylvannas did nothing wrong bandwagons which led to shitty expansions because Blizzard had to pamper their absurd needs. To make matters worse the story and the majority of the playerbase had to pay the price.

As you said - if they “did nothing wrong” and their actions were perfectly fine than it makes you wonder why the fuck they ended up as villains of the next expack, caused near-world-ending fuckup or aided villain of the next expack. Also why we had to suffer through 100 hours of “Look how nice Sylvanas is and how sweet she was” pep talk in order to forgive her and let her do Janitor work in the Maw if she “did nothing wrong”.

[OwenBurton]

As you said - if they “did nothing wrong” and their actions were perfectly fine than it makes you wonder why the fuck they ended up as villains of the next expack, caused near-world-ending fuckup or aided villain of the next expack. Also why we had to suffer through 100 hours of “Look how nice Sylvanas is and how sweet she was” pep talk in order to forgive her and let her do Janitor work in the Maw if she “did nothing wrong”.

What do you think would have been a suitable sentence for Sylvanas then?

[VladlTutushkin]

What do you think would have been a suitable sentence for Sylvanas then?

Same she got, but if she was “dead-dead” before and so locked in the Shadowlands without obvious “comeback” to Azeroth few expansions later.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

I would also have added a race to strengthen the Alliance in Kalimdor, such as having the Arakkoas migrate to Stonetalon Mountains or Feralas and then restart their civilization here with a mix of their old lifestyle, the Light's influence since some of them befriended the Draenei on Draenor/Outland and a new bond with Avianna and the Night Elves, or to have the Botani from AU Draenor be tamed by contacting the Wild Gods and the Emerald Dream and adopting a more balanced view of nature while still being anti-orcs and more ruthless than NE.

[Feanoro]

@VladlTutushkin @Darth-Piekus
There's a forum feature that makes things far more pleasant by getting rid of the "I'm so clever, just ask me" "Horde did nothing wrong" types. You cannot reason with them any more than you can with a rock.

Personally, I'm enjoying that WoW is failing hard for catering to those people.

[OwenBurton]

Same she got, but if she was “dead-dead” before and so locked in the Shadowlands without obvious “comeback” to Azeroth few expansions later.

The thing is, if you've read the novel already, Sylvanas truly was trying to improve and change the universe for the better, trying to create a new cosmos where all families would be forever reunited in both life and death, and was perhaps herself manipulated by the Jailer. I am not saying at all that anyone has to like or forgive her, but her motives at least as portrayed in that book are in a way...somewhat understandable.

A completely shattered and angry woman with a broken family who had lost everything to defend her homeland and people, and who desperately wanted to do everything possible to stop other families from "breaking apart".

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

What do you think would have been a suitable sentence for Sylvanas then?

Something far harsher as a punishment and at least an extremely long time to atone for her sins before she could hope to go to a better afterlife after all the evil things she did.

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Another thing I would have added would have been to add several advisors and members of government to the king of Stormwind, Ironforge, Darnassus, Gnomeregan and Gilneas, with at least a few pragmatic and manipulative schemers to make some more morally dubious decisions behind or before their ruler's back.

For example I would have given a Bloodraven like character as the founder and leader of the Warlocks of Stormwind with him being dreaded and reviled by most of Stormwind and even the king, but still a part of the council and working for the kingdom and Alliance with his own dark methods and schemes.

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Fandral Staghelm would have been the perfect choice for the Night Elves with his study of the Firelands and creation of the druids of the flame being destined to strengthen and help his people against the Horde, the Old Gods' forces and other threats instead of him being another mad and corrupt villain.

[Romanthony]

In my opinion give them some conflict, They seem too perfect that everyone gets along, with no in fighting, nothing
Hell when Varian died, they should of held another election to make a High king not just give it to Aundin. Varian was elected as High King of the Alliance by all the races, he wasnt just given the role

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

That High King title should have never existed in the first place, it gave too much power and dominance to Stormwind and Anduin didn't deserve it, it would have been better if the Alliance leaders had elected a supreme commander of the Alliance forced just like the original Alliance rulers did to prevent the issue of a kingdom ruling over the others.

[saixilein]

Free Factionchanges to alliance.

[VladlTutushkin]

In my opinion give them some conflict, They seem too perfect that everyone gets along, with no in fighting, nothing
Hell when Varian died, they should of held another election to make a High king not just give it to Aundin. Varian was elected as High King of the Alliance by all the races, he wasnt just given the role

Alliance would hardly benefit from internal conflict since they always lose external conflicts and just layering a civil war onto endless suckfest of external affairs will be like slathering a shit sandwich with puke.

- - - Updated - - -

The thing is, if you've read the novel already, Sylvanas truly was trying to improve and change the universe for the better, trying to create a new cosmos where all families would be forever reunited in both life and death, and was perhaps herself manipulated by the Jailer. I am not saying at all that anyone has to like or forgive her, but her motives at least as portrayed in that book are in a way...somewhat understandable.

A completely shattered and angry woman with a broken family who had lost everything to defend her homeland and people, and who desperately wanted to do everything possible to stop other families from "breaking apart".

Yet she never used her much “praised” “genius” to try and think about what a clearly evil, absolutely monstrous dude with obvious bias was showing her! Like have she spared two seconds to think “what if i am being played here?” When she had SEVERAL RACES IN THE HORDE WHO GOT TRICKED THE SAME WAY?!