If Dragonflight becomes another Shadowlands, we'll probably see a WoW 2

[Jastall]

The only MMO sequels that worked were GW2 (for a definition of worked, it's quite the niche game) and Destiny 2, both of which had major growing pains as not even a quarter as much of a legacy left behind in the first game.

A change of engine would cost a ton of money, take a ton of time, remove what players have acquired over 15+ years, and leave a mountain of content behind forevermore, amongst other major problems. It's not going to happen this generation. Maybe if WoW truly fizzles out in 10-15 years Blizz will start working on it but even then I strongly, strongly doubt so. That's not even going into the fact that radically changing the franchise's gameplay and graphics is a recipe for potential disaster when the core gameplay and art design are one of the things most WoW fans agree it does well.

Blizzard would much rather change the game gradually over time, expansion by expansion. It's financially far more sensible for them, and for us more than likely a far better choice as well. Sure, I'd like for a new engine to untangle the game's probable spaghetti code and enable neat stuff like cloth physics on armor. But it's not worth the downsides at all.

[Beuargh]

It's unlikely there will be a WoW2.

First off, a complete redesign of the game would take at least three or four years. The idea that the game is bad because you don't like how it looks has been shown over and over again to be wrong.

Expansions are now essentially standalone games, something Ion said again today. Every expansion now is a "WoW2".

And why would anyone think that the management people responsible for WoW now would be entirely replaced by a WoW2 team? It doesn't make any sense.

this post should close the topic. stop dreaming about a wow 2

[dwarven]

NO player currently in the game is going to scrtap the characters they palyed for years to star al over again in a new game from scratch. Also, they already ahve multiple future expansions in the works, The game is not empty and it is still making money,

The problem I see with this reasoning is that people leave games they've played for years for new and better games all the time. They would probably just add a feats of strength book or something that showed all of your previous accomplishments, and maybe reuse some old mounts and armor with next-gen graphics.

If one person can make something like this, imagine what Blizzard could do. Anyway, I just think players are being sold short.

[xHunterx]

Why do people want a WoW 2 when they hate the current state of the game. A WoW 2 by the same devs would suck just as much as Shadowlands. Plus, photorealistic PC games don‘t sell because of the expensive hardware they require. The most profitable games can all be run on a macbook (LoL, Dota, etc.). Next gen games are better suited for console.

[trapmaster]

as IF there will be wow 2, that means all my progression leveling, my collections, my mounts, my aotc, My raider io progression are waste of time mean starting over fresh in wow 2 rinse and repeat.

[Swnem]

Well, it is difficult to say at this point, but they have been moving away of the things that so doomed the past 3 expansions. With that out of the way, the problem then becomes what will they improve?

We return to where we were in Mists. Now, we need to know if they will be able to recognize how outdated their game play is in things like professions. They are adding bells and whistles, but not necessarily making it more fun. They also need to step up their storytelling and questing systems that is terribly outdated. Then they can work on things like world events ala GW2.

It's just shocking that we have wasted 6 years fixing the wrong moves. It always makes one think where we could be if they actually focused on good changes. We are still waiting on housing, a staple of mmo's. Every mmo has it except WoW at this point, which is a shameful.

Oh, but no, WoW2 will not happen. If WoW sinks they will just focus on other projects. I don't see them starting a new mmo project, which will take at least 6 years to develop, which is very costly and risky in this volatile mmo market we have today. They will alienate a part of their own playerbase as well.

These videos of Unreal are very funny until you actually have loads of players on your screen and the game chugs like hell. Unreal is not made for mmo's.

[Kallisto]

The problem I see with this reasoning is that people leave games they've played for years for new and better games all the time. They would probably just add a feats of strength book or something that showed all of your previous accomplishments, and maybe reuse some old mounts and armor with next-gen graphics.

If one person can make something like this, imagine what Blizzard could do. Anyway, I just think players are being sold short.

As much as I love these little areas of Azeroth in Unreal 5 engine. The entirety of Azeroth looking like this would fill a Hard Drive. They would need super powerful machines. Graphical side isn't the problem with wow, the "cartoony" nature of it keeps it almost timeless. In many ways FFXIV graphics are worse (seriously zoom in on a hand of a FFXIV character) for now. Let alone games that came out the same time as Vanilla trying to be realistic look even worse than wow does now.

Where the problems are is basically under the hood. WoW doesn't need to look like it's in Unreal 5 realism, it needs changes under the hood that basically turns a pretty painted game that was being developed last century into an under the hood that's 21st century

[Abysal]

Hopefully Microsoft does something with the franchise because we know very well Blizzard/Activision wouldn't.

Microsoft can always try putting WoW on game pass if all else fails. For all the problems WoW has, the fact that it's a sub based game in a world where free-to-play dominates the market probably reduces the player count more than most people realize.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

The problem I see with this reasoning is that people leave games they've played for years for new and better games all the time. They would probably just add a feats of strength book or something that showed all of your previous accomplishments, and maybe reuse some old mounts and armor with next-gen graphics.

If one person can make something like this, imagine what Blizzard could do. Anyway, I just think players are being sold short.

Why would higher fidelity be enticing to the WoW playerbase? Its aesthetic has always been cartoony and exagerated, so WoW doesn't have the problem of other MMO's that were top fidelity and launch and deprecating over time. Artstyle doesn't age.

So if WoW doesn't have the need of a graphics overhaul, what would be the reason of a WoW 2? If anything, Warcraft as an IP will jump to an hypothetically more lucrative game genre should that happen. MMO's are a niche genre, and they become so more. New releases that have gambled with astroniomical budgets have failed to take over the market.

Why would WoW forego of its share and risk a huge financial investment on a new version of itself when it could flop?

Hell, if WoW launched now it would flop. The only thing that keeps it as one of the big ones is that it has a built in fanbase that's heavily invested on their characters and the world, and if you take either of those for a new version, you're risking WAY too much.

[Amnaught]

Before you jump on me, let me explain. I'm pretty sure a lot of dissatisfaction with expansions is simply due to how old the game is. Imagine if TBC came out today as a new expansion. People would be complaining left and right at how little content there was, how totally imbalanced the the arena system was, and how the Illidan storyline was not integrated into the casual experience at all. TBC would have been another WoD if it came out today. But back then, WoW's gameplay was still fresh. It was still innovative in a lot of ways, so people tolerated what was a largely half-baked expansion by today's standards.

There's more to do in WoW right now than ever before. Alt leveling is a lot more friendly than it was back then, there are piles and piles of cosmetics and mounts to chase after. There's PvP, raiding, dungeons, world quests, covenants, nicely integrated storylines for the solo player, and so much content it would make a 2006 player's head spin.

And yet, I've never seen people more unhappy with the game, myself included. Why? As I said earlier, I think the game is just old. It's still a good MMO, objectively speaking. But, 2022 games just feel better to play than 2004 ones. Have you ever seen that a company was doing a remake of an old game you played and you got hyped for it, only to play it and realize you'd rather just play its sequel, or whatever its newest iteration was? Game engines have come a long way since 2004.

Anyway, I think the disparity between WoW and modern games will only become more great as we move further into the 2020s. With Unreal Engine 5 looking absolutely incredible and more accessible to small developers, we're going to see even your average run of the mill games completely outclass WoW's gameplay, which used to be fresh and innovative. Blizzard has always been great an innovating, and taking older ideas and polishing them to a perfect sheen. This talent that they possess has largely been wasted by continuing to publish a 17 year old game. Yes, people still play it and give them money, which is why Blizzard continues to develop it. But, I think players are becoming more and more aware of the gameplay disparity, and this is largely why dissatisfaction with the game is growing, not because of specific content. It will probably get to a point where they are caught with their pants down and suddenly the game is empty. BFA and SL were pretty clear warning signs. If Dragonflight continues with the dissatisfaction trend, we'll probably see a sequel, or a massive engine/visual upgrade at the very least.

Modern Runescape has less active players than Old School Runescape. Newer games are not always better.

I look at modern WoW as a sequel anyway. If you released Shadowlands as a standalone game, it would be exactly equivalent to a sequel compared to vanilla WoW. The system overhauls, the model updates and customization, the spell effects, the User Interface, all have improved massively over the years.

I'm convinced at this point that people would have complained about Skyrim if it was released with all the old Oblivion quests and zones still available.

[qwerty123456]

It's unlikely there will be a WoW2.

First off, a complete redesign of the game would take at least three or four years. The idea that the game is bad because you don't like how it looks has been shown over and over again to be wrong.

Expansions are now essentially standalone games, something Ion said again today. Every expansion now is a "WoW2".

And why would anyone think that the management people responsible for WoW now would be entirely replaced by a WoW2 team? It doesn't make any sense.

I gotta disagree. They saw that wow classic was enough success that they wanted to keep making/remaking em instead of laying off or moving the people that worked on it. As soon as they think that the investment in a new WoW will far exceed the cost of creating it we are going to be getting a Wow 2.

[rrayy]

The problem I see with this reasoning is that people leave games they've played for years for new and better games all the time. They would probably just add a feats of strength book or something that showed all of your previous accomplishments, and maybe reuse some old mounts and armor with next-gen graphics.

If one person can make something like this, imagine what Blizzard could do. Anyway, I just think players are being sold short.

That will not work. All the fests of strengh in the world cannot change the fact you will never use that toon again. Nobody is going to give up their toon to start completely over.

- - - Updated - - -

I gotta disagree. They saw that wow classic was enough success that they wanted to keep making/remaking em instead of laying off or moving the people that worked on it. As soon as they think that the investment in a new WoW will far exceed the cost of creating it we are going to be getting a Wow 2.

Since that is never going to happen, WOW2 is not going to happen.

[Sanguinerd]

The more Blizzard push that competitive agenda the more people will continue to quit.

Judging from the Dragonflight features so far it seems they've noticed but time will tell.

[qwerty123456]

Since that is never going to happen, WOW2 is not going to happen.

You don't think a new game would ever be successful?

[Khaza-R]

I think you're more likely to see Classic HD than you are WoW 2.

[dope_danny]

"if a product flops they will put MORE money behind them to make a new product without two decades of sunk cost brand loyalty that will also divide the userbase".

And Bobby K will donate all his money to charity.

[Bladesyphon]

You don't think a new game would ever be successful?

Probably not, no. Sequels to MMO's are extremely risky ventures, and more often than not, they fail spectacularly. As another poster pointed out - GW2 and Destiny 2 are the only real examples of MMO sequels that didn't completely fail (Everquest 2, to a lesser extent), and even though both are very successful now, they launched filled with broken promises of character progression and carry over, and frankly were inferior to their predecessors in every way.

And even then, GW2 is the only one that really warranted existing, as it was a complete overhaul from the original game, whereas Destiny 2 only existed because Activision demanded sequels to the game, because they didn't understand that the MMO genre does not, in fact, really need sequels. There was very little reason for Destiny 2 to exist, when the change from Destiny 1 to Destiny 2 is extremely minor, at best.

[Iain]

This beautiful handcrafted scenery is the only reason I keep coming back. There's nothing to improve about these graphics. Nothing.

[kenn9530]

That's what I mean. If WoW expansions continue to have poor reception (and I think they will), they'll just make a new game. People complain about lore as a reason expansions have done poorly, but Vanilla had no story at all. People didn't give a fuck that it didn't have lore. They played it because it was fun.

The reason ppl keep playing is they have invested a ton of time into thier chars, a WoW 2 wouldnt work because blizz cant even fix the main issues in current WoW, if blizz made another MMO it would have to not be in the WoW universe, they will just milk WoW for all its worth and put in the bare min effort to keep enough players interested.

[unbound]

Before you jump on me, let me explain. I'm pretty sure a lot of dissatisfaction with expansions is simply due to how old the game is. Imagine if TBC came out today as a new expansion. People would be complaining left and right at how little content there was, how totally imbalanced the the arena system was, and how the Illidan storyline was not integrated into the casual experience at all. TBC would have been another WoD if it came out today. But back then, WoW's gameplay was still fresh. It was still innovative in a lot of ways, so people tolerated what was a largely half-baked expansion by today's standards.

There's more to do in WoW right now than ever before. Alt leveling is a lot more friendly than it was back then, there are piles and piles of cosmetics and mounts to chase after. There's PvP, raiding, dungeons, world quests, covenants, nicely integrated storylines for the solo player, and so much content it would make a 2006 player's head spin.

And yet, I've never seen people more unhappy with the game, myself included. Why? As I said earlier, I think the game is just old. It's still a good MMO, objectively speaking. But, 2022 games just feel better to play than 2004 ones. Have you ever seen that a company was doing a remake of an old game you played and you got hyped for it, only to play it and realize you'd rather just play its sequel, or whatever its newest iteration was? Game engines have come a long way since 2004.

Anyway, I think the disparity between WoW and modern games will only become more great as we move further into the 2020s. With Unreal Engine 5 looking absolutely incredible and more accessible to small developers, we're going to see even your average run of the mill games completely outclass WoW's gameplay, which used to be fresh and innovative. Blizzard has always been great an innovating, and taking older ideas and polishing them to a perfect sheen. This talent that they possess has largely been wasted by continuing to publish a 17 year old game. Yes, people still play it and give them money, which is why Blizzard continues to develop it. But, I think players are becoming more and more aware of the gameplay disparity, and this is largely why dissatisfaction with the game is growing, not because of specific content. It will probably get to a point where they are caught with their pants down and suddenly the game is empty. BFA and SL were pretty clear warning signs. If Dragonflight continues with the dissatisfaction trend, we'll probably see a sequel, or a massive engine/visual upgrade at the very least.

Sigh. Where to start with this one...

There is only more to do in WoW because of all of the previous expansions. You have BC and SL completely backwards...if BC launched now, there would be far more to do than there is in SL. There were literally twice as many dungeons available, far more raids, more zones, more quests, etc.

The primary reason people are abandoning the game is because SL just doesn't have the much to it. You can only play the old quests, dungeons, etc so many times before it gets old. In fact, where you claim leveling is better than ever is one of the factors of content exhaustion...Blizz pushes you through at record speed to the current expansion where, let's be completely honest here, there just isn't that much to do.

Blizz needs to provide content. Not 200 reskinned mounts, 200 more pets, an "infinite" dungeon that wasn't remotely as randomized as they claimed (and got old after only a few runs), more table nonsense, more minigames. We don't need more ways to race through dungeons in 5 or 10 minutes. We shouldn't be encouraged to race through everything. Sure it feels good the first few times...but then you start feeling the emptiness. How many times have you run the current dungeons? 50 times? 100 times? 200 times? No matter what affix or timer you put on them, they get old after a few dozen times...much less hundreds of times...

That is what is making you unhappy with the game. Stop making excuses for Blizz. Stop accepting Blizz PR at face value. They cut too many corners. That is why the game feels hollow to you now.