Are people really okay with the "new" race restrictions?

[Syegfryed]

No company really cares about feedback,

thank god you don't run a company, sheesh.

they only care about losing money or getting bad press,

And how can you exactly, not lose money or get bad press....?

the answer start with feed and end with back

they dont change the game on the whims of a few random ppl complaining about something that doesnt even matter.

And why are you thinking is a few random people, and why do you think doesn't even matter?

Seems like it matter a bunch a lot for you to spend so much time arguing for it right?

When lore is trampled on everything about the game starts to lose all meaning, why are you against having unique things in a game that currently offers far too many choices that make very little sense.

"why are against unique things REEE" that is a nice strawman here, but no lore is being trampled on 'everything", so you are trying to break a point no one ever made.

What it doesn't make sense is a design choice to create something so limited because you are selling Demon hunter 2.0 as a new race.

All we know is there was a massive war just before the dracthyr the player will play was put into hibernation, whos to say many even survived, its likely there is a small number only but you cant currently prove it can you.

Because more than one people will play then, surprising considering how bad they are, but there is more, no race/class thing is only "one", be logical

[kenn9530]

You just debunked your self on claiming we don't know if there's many of them or not.

Yes I'm aware, the aspects aren't buffed anymore I actually told you that posts ago.

Your the one who said they're using the power of the aspects as if aspects still have some kind of super titan powers.

I'm telling you that all they have is the combined abilities of all 5 flights, which doesn't translate into large insane amount of raw strength, they're just extremely versatile.

What part of that don't u get??

Draconic magic isn't the most powerful magic in azeroth, idk where you get this notion from. It's on par with other forms of magic.

Do you not understand they have not said and we dont have enough information on how many dracthyr there actually are, you cant just say what you want until you actually have the right information, wars mean lots of death so its possible there could only be one dracthyr actually alive, until you can actually prove there are more than one the dont make things up.

You dont understand anything at all, the aspects magic is the same as the whole dragonflights use, the titans only make the leaders stronger and didnt give them a whole range of abilities noone else can use, the dracthyr have the powers of all dragonflights so they can use the same powers as the aspects have, the race is made to be the most powerful dragon class otherwise there is no point in the race at all.

The dracthyr are an immortal race, there are not current other immortal races anymore, they have had the time to develop thier magic to a different level compared to all the current races so yes dragon magic is the most powerful because you can spend as long as you want training it, all the other races die very fast.

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thank god you don't run a company, sheesh.


And how can you exactly, not lose money or get bad press....?

the answer start with feed and end with back


And why are you thinking is a few random people, and why do you think doesn't even matter?

Seems like it matter a bunch a lot for you to spend so much time arguing for it right?


"why are against unique things REEE" that is a nice strawman here, but no lore is being trampled on 'everything", so you are trying to break a point no one ever made.

What it doesn't make sense is a design choice to create something so limited because you are selling Demon hunter 2.0 as a new race.



Because more than one people will play then, surprising considering how bad they are, but there is more, no race/class thing is only "one", be logical

Most of what ppl leave as feedback is useless information that doesnt make a game better so a company is good to ignore it, the customer is never right about anything and they dont know how games actually work.

Its ppl like you that make the game worse, you want things just because and not because they make any sense in a game.

You are just jealous you cant be a dragon race on any class you want, and thats not going to change for years.

[Teriz]

Concepts like "Soar" show the benefit of the class being race-locked and vice versa. I'm looking forward to seeing what they develop.

[Jester Joe]

Most of what ppl leave as feedback is useless information that doesnt make a game better so a company is good to ignore it, the customer is never right about anything and they dont know how games actually work.

And yet Shadowlands has made massive strides in a better direction due to the feedback it received.

There's obviously feedback that is useless, like threats, but even something as small as "This feels bad" draws attention to the issue to get Blizzard to look at it again. Any company who just ignores feedback would be ignorant and not make it very far at all.

Its ppl like you that make the game worse, you want things just because and not because they make any sense in a game.

You say this as if the game didn't already twist logic around to make it more fair even if it doesn't make sense. Like why would any Blood Elf want to be a warrior when they're proficient in magic which should be far stronger than swinging around a sword?

And how do Goblins of all races manage to be shamans? Or why can Tauren be classes that are about worshipping the Light?

Because they just blur the lines a bit and it's fine.

[Syegfryed]

Most of what ppl leave as feedback is useless information that doesnt make a game better so a company is good to ignore it, the customer is never right about anything and they dont know how games actually work.

So, because some feedback is useless, a company should ignore feedback all together

cause they can't filter feedback, And that is good for the company. Like, do you even believe yourself saying those things?

Its ppl like you that make the game worse, you want things just because and not because they make any sense in a game.

You are just jealous you cant be a dragon race on any class you want, and thats not going to change for years.

You can't make a good argument without coming about into fallacies, there is no "jealousy" about this matter.

[Varx]

Do you not understand they have not said and we dont have enough information on how many dracthyr there actually are, you cant just say what you want until you actually have the right information, wars mean lots of death so its possible there could only be one dracthyr actually alive, until you can actually prove there are more than one the dont make things up.

You dont understand anything at all, the aspects magic is the same as the whole dragonflights use, the titans only make the leaders stronger and didnt give them a whole range of abilities noone else can use, the dracthyr have the powers of all dragonflights so they can use the same powers as the aspects have, the race is made to be the most powerful dragon class otherwise there is no point in the race at all.

The dracthyr are an immortal race, there are not current other immortal races anymore, they have had the time to develop thier magic to a different level compared to all the current races so yes dragon magic is the most powerful because you can spend as long as you want training it, all the other races die very fast.

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Most of what ppl leave as feedback is useless information that doesnt make a game better so a company is good to ignore it, the customer is never right about anything and they dont know how games actually work.

Its ppl like you that make the game worse, you want things just because and not because they make any sense in a game.

You are just jealous you cant be a dragon race on any class you want, and thats not going to change for years.

LFD are immortal, by ur logic they should be super strong. And yes there are multiple since deathwing made them as an army. They haven been involved in any wars. If they were the other dragons would have known about them. Blizz said not even alexstrazsa was aware of their existence.

Other races may not be immortal but have life spans of thousands of years. Many Nelves have been alive since the war if the ancients ffs.

The point of the race is to create the asoldier with the combined strength of mortals and the 5 flights. If they were so perfect and powerful then why did deathwing try so hard to incorporate what he learned into flawed chromatic FULL dragons and then eventually twilight dragons?

They were his first attempt before going bonkers.

They're just dragon/humanoid hybrids empowers by the abilities of all 5 flights. That doesn't make them god tier strong. Relax kid.

Again, which you keep ignoring, the dk player slaughtered multiple res dragons by themselves during legion, it's part of the more. Blizz even said Alex is gonna chastise those dk players during DF.

[Aydinx2]

Perfectly fine with it. Dracthyrs are dragons, and the Evoker class is the dragon class that grants Dracthyrs their draconic abilities. You really can't have one without the other, so it makes perfect sense. Hopefully, they don't cave to pressure and maintain the restrictions on the Dracthyr.

I'm sure a guy with a Deathwing avatar and Dragonflight signature is going to have an unbiased view on Dracthyr.

[Dractier]

I'm sure a guy with a Deathwing avatar and Dragonflight signature is going to have an unbiased view on Dracthyr.

To be fair the guy who he is talking to has not one but TWO forum signatures that are nothing more than childish whining and complaints, and he is in here doing just that.

[Varx]

I'm fine with evokers being only for dracthyr as long as they expand on visages and make them usable in combat, cuz then in that way you have a way of multiple races playing as an evoker.

I'm not fine with dracthyr not having other class options, but this is okay since izzard said they mostly like will down the road when they've learned much from the mortals they'll be fighting with.

People ask why would a drac wanna be a warrior over an evoker.

Jee IDK, why would a LFD wanna be a war over a paladin. why would a NB wanna be a war over a mage, why would a velf Wana be a war over a priest, why would a nelf wanna be a war over a druid.

In a world of magical classes why would anyone wanna be a war to begin with????

Well because the path of the war just speaks to them, maybe they're runts with magic, and all of that can be applied to dracthyr

Oh dracthyr A was never proficient in his evoker abilities, but now they have the opportunity to learn a combat art they may excel in.

Use your imaginations people.

[La]

I think designing something based purely around one specific race is something you'd do 20 years ago, not in modern times. People want to play and enjoy the things they like, not be restricted because of the lore. I think too many things that would improve this game are not done because of lore, which is why many aspects of other game lore is altered, because it has a negative effect on gameplay.

A new class should never be restricted to one race, and while it makes sense in this scenario, the choice to do so is moronic. Wasn't the whole point of opening up class restrictions for other races and making things more inclusive the point, but then you regress by making.. exactly what you wanted to avoid/people complained about in the first place?

[Stumps]

Are people really okay with the "new" race restrictions?

Ok, not ok, it makes no odds - you're a consumer not a stakeholder - you have no say.

It's a weird sense of entitlement that an expansion and feature gets announced and your reaction is not either;

"Cool, might play that"

"Not cool, not interested but will still play the game"

"Don't like the direction of the game, I won't play anymore and will find something else that holds my attention"

The fourth option - create forum post whining about developer laziness serves what purpose other than to seek some sort of gratification and validation in the form of attention, negative and positive?

[Varx]

Ideally the fact they're mutually exclusive could make this the most deep and engaging classes available - I think its completely fine

That said, they need to really give dracthyr the best level of customisation of any race to justify the fact you're locked to one class

I think people whining about one class don't really have a solid argument - you really should have every class capped at this point if you're a semi serious player - I'm glad they're trying something unique and different, its flavorful and reminiscent of classic RPG mechanics, especially when eventually every race can have every class, let dracthyr be the exception and the game retain a bit of soul

When your a member of the hordr and alliance and constantly surrounded by mortals with variouse ways of combat it's only natural that some drac will be influenced and want to pursue different paths for w/e reason.

Right now it makes sense since they're just joining the world. But one or two expansions down the line it would make zero sense for some dracthyr to not follow other ways of combat after forging relationships with mortals.

That's a natural course of lore progression.

[kenn9530]

snip

Its already clear that you have never had any intention of whats actually good for the game, you only care about what you believe you are entitled to.

Facts prove themselves, ppl have been complaining about housing for most of the game and other systems, blizz have not put them in and they only do things that they would of done anyway so the feedback is irrelevant because they will do whatever they were going to to with the game anyway, you do realise they go over all possabilities for the game right and then decide if its suitable to implement, players feedback provides nothing they have not already discussed at some point.

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snip.

Its a game they need to apply massive plot holes to allow players to defeat foes they would not stand a chance against. It still doesnt make it ok to do it in the first place.

You had help killing more powerful foes in legion its called the artifact weapon and you get player plot armor to kill things that would normally be more powerful so its a fact you had help to kill any powerful foe.

Its a simple fact that it takes a whole army to kill one single true dragon so yes dragon magic is that much more powerful.

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And yet Shadowlands has made massive strides in a better direction due to the feedback it received.

There's obviously feedback that is useless, like threats, but even something as small as "This feels bad" draws attention to the issue to get Blizzard to look at it again. Any company who just ignores feedback would be ignorant and not make it very far at all.



You say this as if the game didn't already twist logic around to make it more fair even if it doesn't make sense. Like why would any Blood Elf want to be a warrior when they're proficient in magic which should be far stronger than swinging around a sword?

And how do Goblins of all races manage to be shamans? Or why can Tauren be classes that are about worshipping the Light?

Because they just blur the lines a bit and it's fine.

The team developed the game the way they were told to not because of feedback, the team know the game better than the players and know what should be done.

Doing things that make no sense even in a game makes the game worse, when you make lore mean nothing then the story ends up meaing nothing also, so all you have is the gameplay and WoW doesnt have enough gameplay to make up for the games other short comings.

Making the new race available to all classes isnt blurring the lines its completely changing the reason for the race in the first place, same if they allowed other races to use evoker without being a dragon, if they listened to feedback from players the game would be dead.

[Syegfryed]

Its already clear that you have never had any intention of whats actually good for the game, you only care about what you believe you are entitled to.

Youa re saying those nonsense while saying the company should ignore all feedback, lmao.

What is good for the game is making things that majority can enjoy without ruining other people game, adding more classes to a race, or enhancing the race customizations is entirely good for the game.

Facts prove themselves,.

The facts that blizz hear feedback and sometimes act on then?

Like, did you hear they are giving rogues, mages and priests to all classes? exactly what people ahve being asking?

[Mellrod]

I'm fine with it but def see merit to both sides of thought here. I think it would've been better if the Drac'thyr as a race were able to access other classes, but at all times they have a race-exclusive spec they can switch to that uses the unique animations and such. Evoker could still exist as a class, just give Drac'thyr their own spec to make them special with.

[Varx]

Its already clear that you have never had any intention of whats actually good for the game, you only care about what you believe you are entitled to.

Facts prove themselves, ppl have been complaining about housing for most of the game and other systems, blizz have not put them in and they only do things that they would of done anyway so the feedback is irrelevant because they will do whatever they were going to to with the game anyway, you do realise they go over all possabilities for the game right and then decide if its suitable to implement, players feedback provides nothing they have not already discussed at some point.

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Its a game they need to apply massive plot holes to allow players to defeat foes they would not stand a chance against. It still doesnt make it ok to do it in the first place.

You had help killing more powerful foes in legion its called the artifact weapon and you get player plot armor to kill things that would normally be more powerful so its a fact you had help to kill any powerful foe.

Its a simple fact that it takes a whole army to kill one single true dragon so yes dragon magic is that much more powerful.

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The team developed the game the way they were told to not because of feedback, the team know the game better than the players and know what should be done.

Doing things that make no sense even in a game makes the game worse, when you make lore mean nothing then the story ends up meaing nothing also, so all you have is the gameplay and WoW doesnt have enough gameplay to make up for the games other short comings.

Making the new race available to all classes isnt blurring the lines its completely changing the reason for the race in the first place, same if they allowed other races to use evoker without being a dragon, if they listened to feedback from players the game would be dead.

Holy crap, not all dragons are god like beings man...

There are multiple quests that have you go out to kill dragons even before legion.

You have no source to justify your ridiculous claims other than your clear dragon kink.

There is no plot holes.

Dragon X isn't as strong as dragon Z thus mortal y can wreck their world.

Evokers are just draconic spellcasters that have the abilities of all 5 flights, nothing implies their power level is insane just for that fact, they just as powerful as any skilled mage, warlock, druid, shaman, etc.

Not once has it been stated that draconic magic is the most powerful magic in existence on azeroth.

You're just extremely biased for w/e cringe reason

[kenn9530]

Youa re saying those nonsense while saying the company should ignore all feedback, lmao.

What is good for the game is making things that majority can enjoy without ruining other people game, adding more classes to a race, or enhancing the race customizations is entirely good for the game.


The facts that blizz hear feedback and sometimes act on then?

Like, did you hear they are giving rogues, mages and priests to all classes? exactly what people ahve being asking?

The majority of players dont like the games lore and such being abused just to satify a small minority, breaking the fundamentals of the games lore is what makes the game worse, all your opinions are bad for the game.

The company doesnt act on what ppl ask for they just do something when they feel they want to so its nothing to do with player feedback. Its not something you can actually prove. The facts are on the multiple things the small minority of players complain about blizzard doesnt do anything because of it.

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Holy crap, not all dragons are god like beings man...

There are multiple quests that have you go out to kill dragons even before legion.

You have no source to justify your ridiculous claims other than your clear dragon kink.

There is no plot holes.

Dragon X isn't as strong as dragon Z thus mortal y can wreck their world.

Evokers are just draconic spellcasters that have the abilities of all 5 flights, nothing implies their power level is insane just for that fact, they just as powerful as any skilled mage, warlock, druid, shaman, etc.

Not once has it been stated that draconic magic is the most powerful magic in existence on azeroth.

You're just extremely biased for w/e cringe reason

The only real dragons are the ones the size of alexstrasa and such, everything else is not a true dragon so not you have not killed any actual dragons without any help.

There are plot holes its a game they need them for a game to actually work.

Evokers are using dragons magic, its far superior to other classes magic that is a fact, it combines 5 dragonflights worth of magic giving them the most diverse magic selection out of anyone, all player classes are far weaker in game than they are in actual lore. The player class is fairly weak in the game thats why it requires whole teams and armies or special plot buffs to kill strong enemies.

Dragons are only second to the titans, they are the oldest beings on the planet so yes dragons magic is superior.

You cant compare the magic of mortals with limited livespans to the oldest beings on the planet with thousands of years to develop thier magic.

[Mellrod]

Dragon magic is the strongest magic and if it were more realistic none of the current classes would actually be anywhere close to thier power, jaina could wipe out whole cities herself and dragons are a power beyond what even she holds.

I'm not sure where you got that from. I don't think the power system of WoW works like DBZ or some other anime. One feat of strength doesn't define the whole of a character's power and capabilities. Or at least, it really shouldn't.

player housing is no worth putting into the game because it would then sacrifice content because blizzard cant give you extra features and content at the same time.

You really believe that crappy excuse Blizzard farts out about sacrificing raid tiers? Because its not true at all. Blizzard totally can and should endeavor to give us features without sacrificing content or making shortcuts in other areas. Compare Wrath & BfA's feature trailer, Cata & Shadowlands. Even if some things were cut they had way more creativity and willingness to go beyond a bare minimum of quests, raids, and continents with Cata & Wrath. Nowadays its like 2 genuinely new things and then the same stuff we always get, and if WoD is an example, WAAY more content gets cut before release. Always because Blizz decided we wouldn't like it before giving it to us to play.

Ontop of that, just look at what other wildly successful MMOs have accomplished with their content updates. If FFXIV can fit in player housing without missing a beat on PvE/PvP content then WoW can too. Despite the classic joke, Blizz is not actually an indie company. Giving Blizzard excuses and treating them like they are just keeps the devs and corporation from being held accountable. It's shooting ourselves in the foot to have that mindset.

You cant prove feedback has resulted in anything blizz have put into the game at all, they only listen to the top guilds during world first races and then the rest of the time you will be ignored, players/customers give bad advise plain and simple so its pointless.

You sure about that? So, the compromise to flying in late WoD, which changed how they work in every expansion now, wasn't from players complaining about lack of flying? The consciousness Blizz has about getting player housing right, wasn't because people were vocal about Garrisons? Mission Boards didn't become optional, because players voiced concerns about turning gameplay into timegate menus? Borrowed power wasn't dumped after BfA because players pointed out it's flaws? OFFICIAL CLASSIC WOW SERVERS didn't come into existence because players were vocal about the banning of fan ones? Not because we pointed out the win-win situation it created for both Blizz and players? They aren't now making wildly successful classic expansion servers because we voiced our love of vanilla classic?

Also the mindset that "players are stupid therefore should be entirely disregarded" is just anti-intellectual and a one way track to making a game that does not please your audience. This is the same kind of thing Blizzard has said about players before. Telling us how we are supposed to enjoy the game like you know what's good for us is just a crappy mindset that undermines the ability for us to hold Blizzard accountable and guide the direction of the game's future with our collective input.

There is nothing flawed in having a race/class be limited to that one class/race, it actually makes the game better and follow actual lore, everything you have suggested is a terrible idea.

Reducing player's ability to customize their own character makes the game better? limiting the player's options in making a character that they want to play is good? Story should never limit gameplay, only compliment it. We have reached a point in wow's lore where everything is a lot looser, not as strict as the purely warcraft 3-inspired lore. We've covered all the old stuff, Blizz has been making new stories and lore constantly. With cata they found ways to include new race and class combos by framing the classes in a new context that felt believable for the race (i.e. Tauren Paladins are spiritual sun worshippers, Troll Druids get their beast powers from loa they commit to, etc etc.) It's Blizzard's story, they can write whatever they want, and they have shown they can certainly make room for any kind of race/class combo.
"B-but muh lore" is never a good excuse for a game who's story is constantly being retconned, rewritten, and made new.
Blizzard always says their philosophy is putting fun first, what's fun about saying no player freedom because a RTS and some books from 20+ years ago said so? Why say no to Human & Elf Evokers, or Drac'thyr priests, mages, druids, etc? They literally just invented the race & class too, they can establish anything about their story to make it work. Evokers should be given a class identity separate from the draconic race. til that happens it doesn't feel like an actual class, just an excuse to make all dragons have dragon powers.

And we still dont know if he made more than one or not, doesnt matter the intention what matters is the result.

From WoWpedia:

The Dracthyr were created in the ancient past by the black Dragon Aspect Neltharion, who combined the essence of dragons with the adaptability of the mortal races to create a race of ideal soldiers.[2]

What about that description sounds like Neltharion just made one Drac'thyr and said "fuck it time to do something else?" He made a hybrid army of super soldiers that I assume got abandoned after he went coo-coo for coco puffs. Dragon Isles and Drac'thyr haven't actually existed in the lore until right now, so does it matter? They are likely retconning a lot of Dragon-related books just by making this expac. Dawn of The Aspects for one.

Also, this is a race and a class. It doesnt matter how many there are in the lore, there will be tons of PLAYERS who are PLAYING the new race/class as it's main a feature in a GAME. The same thing happened other "reclusive" and "rare class/races. Demon hunters, worgen, Death Knights, Monks, Blood Elves, etc. It doesnt matter how few are left, hundreds will eventually be dancing naked on Goldshire mailboxes and there's nothing you can do to stop it. Lore isn't always reflected in-game, and Blizz has acknowledged the need to sacrifice lore for the sake of gameplay before. (which further proves my point about lore being too flexible to justify restricting player choice.)

Unless you are implying that Blizzard should or is limiting the class EXCLUSIVELY to a select few individuals while the rest of us get nothing? Just so that it's "lore accurate" to whatever your perception of the lore is?

[dragonflight10]

Do you not understand they have not said and we dont have enough information on how many dracthyr there actually are, you cant just say what you want until you actually have the right information, wars mean lots of death so its possible there could only be one dracthyr actually alive, until you can actually prove there are more than one the dont make things up.

You dont understand anything at all, the aspects magic is the same as the whole dragonflights use, the titans only make the leaders stronger and didnt give them a whole range of abilities noone else can use, the dracthyr have the powers of all dragonflights so they can use the same powers as the aspects have, the race is made to be the most powerful dragon class otherwise there is no point in the race at all.

The dracthyr are an immortal race, there are not current other immortal races anymore, they have had the time to develop thier magic to a different level compared to all the current races so yes dragon magic is the most powerful because you can spend as long as you want training it, all the other races die very fast.

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Most of what ppl leave as feedback is useless information that doesnt make a game better so a company is good to ignore it, the customer is never right about anything and they dont know how games actually work.

Its ppl like you that make the game worse, you want things just because and not because they make any sense in a game.

You are just jealous you cant be a dragon race on any class you want, and thats not going to change for years.

This 100%, all those people wanting more classes, I dont know what goes on in their heads that they think i want X thing then blizz should add it
no one taught them how to be reasonable with what they want?

[Schizoide]

I didn't read all 23 pages, but what I want is to see my character's armor, and I don't feel that is an unreasonable stance.