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...and you're arguing that somehow, without the timer the problem won't exist.
Only it will.
And I'd like to remind you this whole thing started with you saying that without the timer, "People won't live after first wipe" - and now you're backtracking on this yourself, saying that for keys other than the highest ones, the tolerance is higher. And the only thing that we have established here, is that people who want to do m+ on time, will live if the key can't be done on time. Which is the whole point of m+. To do it on time. Brilliant!
Last edited by Rageonit; 2022-04-29 at 08:37 PM.
Keystone Dungeons already scale up mob health/damage. If you removed the timer it would still be an infinitely scaling challenge. It would be a different kind of challenge at higher key levels (20+) and I don't want to remove that content for anyone... which is why I advocate for the return of challenge modes.
Perhaps a more elegant implementaion would be to have the timer as an affix, added only for 16+ keys
Nobody would wait for Bloodlust on every pull in a +15... Speed and efficiency are their own reward because player time is a limited resource.
Players dont sit around waiting for cooldowns before every pull in Torghast even though there's no timer. There is a pseudo-timer if you are going for Flawless runs but that's mainly for cosmetics/achievements.
For crazy high 25+ keys they might do that; that's why I advocate for adding challenge modes (or only using a timer for 16+ keys) into the game. People who enjoy the fast-paced dungeon challenge experience (like me) will still have rewards to chase, but it doesn't impact the rest of the playerbase. I think the game is more fun when players have agency over how fast or slow they want to clear the dungeon; seems like a win-win.
thats bs though . 1 minor mistake from 1 person can cost you timer and key .
we are not robots to play for 30-40 minutes flawlesly 100 % of time. even mdi teams make mistakes.
its bringnign nothing besides pure frustration when key id depeleted not from fault of owner of key
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and what would be bad about it ? if people want to spend whole week in 1 dungeon let them
how does this would affect the way you play game ? when most of time even with bl if people cannot perform they will never kill certain bosses. its especially visible on tyranical weeks when you do dungeons with undergeared groups.
This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.
Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.
All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.
So you want regular dungeons but harder?
Because removing both the scaling element and the timer makes it a dungeon. You want a dungeon, harder than m0. Which is understandable but really, you should try a 5+, there really is not a timer unless you wipe on every other trash pack.... Anyhow... m+ is something different and should stay the way it is.
Just so we're clear on what you actually want
How long have you played WoW? Because you used to have to wait for cooldowns to be up or save them for a good attempt. Because they wouldn't reset when you wipe or the encounter was over. People will always prioritize speed and efficency but they will also stop those it if means reward vs no reward.
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.
I enjoy the mental gymnastics on full display in here
"i want the scaling i just don't want the timer"
people on here wanna sandbag keys and lust every pull to get good rewards. lmao
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btw you had this in torghast 8 where people cried rivers of blood bc it was "too hard" in s1
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also funny that people brought up cata heroics where people also cried like fucking babies until it got nerfed into impotence
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The truth is that y'all shitters see not timing a key as some sort of capital offense when in reality, it is an inevitability. people who do keys tend to not time a significant portion of them. it aint the end of the fucking world, just go next
You go do torghast then? We dont need a 5th, just slightly modified for your personal weird liking...
You have dungeons, plenty of different difficulties, actually 3 static and 3 infinite scaling, 3 of them without timer.
The timer is truly insignificant until +15 and thats if you pug only.... So i really don't see a need or even a solid argument for your design choice.
Also you "wanting" higher difficulty i call bullshit on, it's right there in the game, you're simply just not up for the challenge, I feel you're the type of person to demand the whole group to "just wait for lust so we can get past this trash pack, it will be a lot easier after, i promise" guy... No thanks.
Sure I can agree there is no solid argument for it as it’s just a personal hang up I have with not liking timed content In any thing ever.
As far as the other difficulty's go there all unfortunately to easy for my liking with the last time I really enjoyed a dungeons difficulty being hard mode mechagon the first three weeks it was out when me and my group of friends were still rocking some out of date gear from normal uldir because some of them wanted the mount.
Torghast could be fun I suppose I don’t actually know how high the difficulty goes as I think it to just be hellishly boring with all the grey mobs and interiors so I’ve never done more then the bare minimum. If it had more variety like say mix it with islands then I’d likely actually give it a go.
As far as challenge and waiting for lust, I’ve never done it in the past even on things people reflect on as being rather hard like pre nerf cata heroics so It seems rather unlikely I’d start with mythic +.
Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2022-04-30 at 02:19 AM.
All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.
If 1 minor mistake costs you a timer and key then you're either running a 25+ and should expect that or your dps/route is horrendous and you missed the timer because of that, not the minor mistake.
The hyperbole from people that clearly don't even run keys is getting stupid at this point. You can make multiple mistakes and still time 20s let alone fucking 15s.
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Just say you want to get carried through runs without paying gold for it. It's pretty obvious at this point most people advocating to get rid of the timer are just bad at the game.
What is the problem here, exactly? We're talking about keys well beyond the maximum loot threshold, so if some people want to do them in 3 hours who does that hurt, specifically?
I mean I hope you're not suggesting that it would somehow become normal for people doing +16s to afk for lust timers, because frankly I can't even be assed to wait for a 10+ minute battleground queue these days.
All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.
Honestly not getting this "people would just wait for hero/lust cd for every pull". Not doubting some would try this, but you guys realize that a group dependent on heroism for every trash pull is going to get absolutely destroyed by the first boss, right? Hero or not.