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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Sentynel View Post
    With both IPs (soon) belonging to the same parent company, WC4 is more likely than ever before.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    We can only hope that they retcon all of WoW if they ever decide to make Warcraft 4.
    Too much to hope for.
    Although I'd love to see it happen.

  2. #62
    Bloodsail Admiral Misuteri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentynel View Post
    It was bound to happen sooner or later. Doesn't really matter how they handled the Emerald Dream or Azshara or N'zoth. Would've bought them what? One, maybe 2 expansions worth of materials before running out?

    This game was never really about the story anyway. Lore is more like just a wrapping for the fat loot pinatas imo.
    Pretty much this.

    I never bothered to learn the lore of a boss unless I liked the boss or the boss fight.

    I knew nothing about Warcraft until I played WoW and still didn’t play the RTS games.
    The most persecuted minority is the individual.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post


    The Legion was an important part of WC3 since it was a Legion invasion (with the Scourge acting as proxies) that WC3 was ultimately about. Similarly, the Old Gods were sort of introduced in WC3 as well, which had both faceless ones as well as a "Forgotten One" in lower Azjol-Nerub which appears to be an early form of the C'Thraxxi.
    I would say the Forgotten One was probably one of those giant maws we see throughout Cata. Like the one in Twilight Highlands and the 3 in the Hour of Twilight dungeon / Dragon Soul raid.

  4. #64
    I still want Undermine, Azjol'Nerub zone, Emerald Dream, Tel'Abim, Barrow Deeps etc Azeroth isn't done yet at all.
    Why we haven't got Undermine especially confuses me, Goblins are really underused.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I'm mostly referring to the manner in which the Legion, Sargeras, and N'Zoth (although he's not really WC3 material) were dealt with in Legion and BfA, respectively. Especially since those three forces fundamentally underpin all of WoW's expansions up until this point. There was plenty of content left to cover, as well, any and all could've been easily scoped out into future stories.
    Agreed. Sargeras and N'Zoth were rather abrupt. Although I can't think of a way for us to realistically fight Sargeras so us rescuing the Pantheon along the way and having them do it was a tidy way of having it done. N'Zoth is kind of a bummer. In and out in just one patch, like the Thunder King.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  6. #66
    Then maybe they shouldn't have turned Argus into a patch and have the Army of Light end up being just a handful of Lightforged and 4 other people. We could have spent years fighting back the Legion on other planets and shit expanding the universe .

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Then maybe they shouldn't have turned Argus into a patch and have the Army of Light end up being just a handful of Lightforged and 4 other people. We could have spent years fighting back the Legion on other planets and shit expanding the universe .
    Too many people complained about fel and green environments. Kinda sad, I'd love a Legion trilogy (WoD>Legion>Argus)

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurkan View Post
    Too many people complained about fel and green environments. Kinda sad, I'd love a Legion trilogy (WoD>Legion>Argus)
    They could've just added some variety to the Legion aesthetics then, spread the expac out across a few other worlds that the Legion was in the process of conquering.

    Have the Alliance back up the "Army of Light" and the Horde help stage rebellions in races that the Legion had been duping the way they did with the Orcs.

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    I'm kind of wondering if they INTENTIONALLY burnt through WC3 and earlier lore faster because they wanted to do new stuff without bothering with the old... which might be a tad uncharitable but given how they did things in SL... hrm.
    Twas brillig

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I'm mostly referring to the manner in which the Legion, Sargeras, and N'Zoth (although he's not really WC3 material) were dealt with in Legion and BfA, respectively. Especially since those three forces fundamentally underpin all of WoW's expansions up until this point. There was plenty of content left to cover, as well, any and all could've been easily scoped out into future stories.

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    The Legion was an important part of WC3 since it was a Legion invasion (with the Scourge acting as proxies) that WC3 was ultimately about. Similarly, the Old Gods were sort of introduced in WC3 as well, which had both faceless ones as well as a "Forgotten One" in lower Azjol-Nerub which appears to be an early form of the C'Thraxxi.
    I get that, but what I’m saying is, is it really WC3 lore if its an underpinning feature of your setting? Like would you dismiss Elves as ‘Silmarrilion lore’ in Tolkien’s legendarium?

  10. #70
    I’m currently putting together a suggestion for a timeways expansion where they fill in the gaps of previous expansions with content they either cut or never got beyond concerting. We experience them as new content for the expac but the content is also rolled into the expansion from which they were from.

    That could give them some options.

  11. #71
    Herald of the Titans Sluvs's Avatar
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    I mean, they kinda had run out of ideas in like, Cata?

    Deathwing was not such a big character, Pandaria was a thrown away line... They "mined it out" like, 10 years ago.

    But, to be honest, they are mostly making content from vanilla stuff now. I jus thope they keep it grounded.
    I don't want solutions. I want to be mad. - PoorlyDrawnlines

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Sluvs View Post
    I mean, they kinda had run out of ideas in like, Cata?

    Deathwing was not such a big character, Pandaria was a thrown away line... They "mined it out" like, 10 years ago.

    But, to be honest, they are mostly making content from vanilla stuff now. I jus thope they keep it grounded.
    Nah, in Cata they still had Sargeras/Legion, multiple old gods, the titans and Azshara to deal with

    But then they blew through a bunch of them in the same expac.
    Twas brillig

  13. #73
    The way they wasted stuff in Legion and especially BfA was insane.

    Even though i'd argue the Naga are salvageable. We didn't even reach Nazjatar the city proper. Just the palace. And Azshara wanted us their to free N'zoth, even though it makes zero sense that he was imprisoned in this place. It also makes no sense that Azshara wasted her best soldiers/armies here. The Nagas empire under the sea should be huge. And it would be a piece of cake to make it so through writing, that Azsharas most powerful minions and were not present inside that palace and the playable part of the ocean floor, as they could either secure the rest of Nazjatar as well as being on important missions in other places on Azeroth, as Azshara has her own goals and wanted to betrayed and kill N'zoth anyway.

    So the Naga don't have to be done at all.

    Something Blizzard also greatly lacks in is the development of new, awesome characters who can replace the dead old guard. In most cases, if there even are new characters, they often very shallow and bland in comparison to the characters who came before in characteristics and design. They have to improve in that department big time.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I don't begrudge them for moving on from WC3 in the sense that they can't really hold onto it forever, but I also agree that they plowed through a lot of material in a truly short amount of time, to the overall detriment of the overarching narrative.
    Agreed. Shamefully for some of them too. Like unacceptable and unforgivable decisions made and directions taken that really fucked with my emotions, lol. I'm a lore junkie so I take it more seriously than most.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinhart11 View Post

    Something Blizzard also greatly lacks in is the development of new, awesome characters who can replace the dead old guard. In most cases, if there even are new characters, they often very shallow and bland in comparison to the characters who came before in characteristics and design. They have to improve in that department big time.
    Well they can create new awesome characters as seen in BFA. Flynn, Talanji, Bwomsandi, Order of Embers for example. The problem is they were pretty much instantly ditched (save for Taelia but I think she isn't awesome at all).

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovok View Post
    It should serve as your reminder that Ion really doesn't give a damn about lore.
    And neither should he, he is charge to make sure the expansion is made, its up to story and quests departments to care about lore.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    I mean, past WC3 is WoW. And why would they want to go back over story WoW already explored, that's what Classic is for.
    uh, cause there are number of story threads throughout wow's lifetime that can be picked up on for new expansions, such as they are doing with the dragons in dragonflight.

    other examples brought up by another poster: Undermine, Azjol'Nerub zone, Emerald Dream, Tel'Abim, Barrow Deeps

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    To me, the issue is that's basically re-treading Cataclysm. And to explore Naga in more depth, it's gonna end up being underwater unless you really neuter them. It's just minus Deathwing at that point.
    but there is so much more potential than that for a N'zoth/Old God expansion: corruption of existing zones and all the gameplay/story potential there, Ny'alotha as a city as I mentioned already, the forces of N'zoth, involvement of the void itself and so on. Sure some parts might bring back parts from older expansions like Cata, but that isn't a problem as it'd be a different thing when an actual Old God was the one leading the enemy this time.

    also a N'zoth expansion doesn't need to involve the Naga in significant ways, save em for a proper Azshara expansion.
    Last edited by voidox; 2022-04-30 at 09:13 AM.

  18. #78
    Id be surprised if most people fresh to wow have played wc3 or read any of the books / lore out there. I think its good if blizz turns a fresh page and focuses on the next generation while all the old timers can sit back and say how the good ole days were more pure.

    In three expansions illidans going to come back and half your raid is going to be like who tf is this guy?

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Eosia View Post
    It's understandable that people feel this way, but I think people are forgetting some things. Sargeras aside, Kil'jaeden was the Burning Legion. Yet, by the definition you're using, he was "wasted" in the Sunwell. We only get to see him from the waist up and play with him for a few minutes before he's defeated and we check his belt for loot. There were no breadcrumbs like we have with N'Zoth.
    well ya, I would say he was a bit wasted cause there was much more Blizzard could have done with Kil'jaden in Legion, be it with Velen and the draenei or showing more of Kil and Sargeras.

    as I said in my OP, there was a lot of content in legion's final patch that could have been expanded into it's own expansion, leaving more time in Legion expansion for Kil'jaden as the final boss of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eosia View Post
    As I pointed out in the long post I linked to above though, we have breadcrumbs to N'Zoth's return. I compare it against our fun with Kil'jaeden back in 2.4 where he's sucked back into the Sunwell leaving just his belt for us to check for loot. Nothing really is spoken of about how this wasn't the end of him, etc. Whereas with N'Zoth Xal'atath and Il'gynoth both talk about the return of N'Zoth and the Void beyond his "death" in 8.3. Like how on what is now the Broken Shore, N'Zoth got into a fight with Y'shaarj and lost. Yet Xal'atath talks about how defeat works in N'Zoth's favor.
    sure, but even with all these hints and speculation of his return, the impact of his return is going to be really neutered as compared to what it could have been cause we've already defeated him, handled his main forces/corruption and been to Ny'alotha.

    so I guess he could come back with even more forces, bigger corruption and a new Ny'alotha (I guess?)... but meh, the impact for most people is going to be: "didn't we kamehameha this guy already?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    They could've just added some variety to the Legion aesthetics then, spread the expac out across a few other worlds that the Legion was in the process of conquering.

    Have the Alliance back up the "Army of Light" and the Horde help stage rebellions in races that the Legion had been duping the way they did with the Orcs.
    exactly, there was such an easy set up for using Illidan's portal crystal and having the story be of "for the first time ever, Azeroth is invading the Burning Legion" instead of the other way around. Having the Legion be on the receiving end after Kil'jaden's defeat would have been a nice twist of the burning legion story.

    You could have us going into different legion worlds, with different biomes and races/creatures/characters before Argus being the final stop. Have us actually build up an Army of the Light that isn't just some light draenei, but filled with different surviving races (let the art team go wild there). You could do so much more with Turalyon and Alleria, showcasing their history in-game than in some out-of-game voice thing. Do more with Xe'ra and make her an actual character we know before killing her off, do a lot more with the titans revival than that being something that suddenly pops up in the final raid... and so much more.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lothaeryn View Post
    Its almost as if Blizzard could have done that at any fucking time and still had the legion and other cosmic threats in the background brewing...
    No one wants the lore to be stagnated with the "Legion background brewing" because it leads nowhere. Brewing... brewing... until never? Hell no.

    This is a 20 yo game story inside an even older franchise. Palpatine can't be the antagonist forever (...shouldn't).

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