If Dragonflight becomes another Shadowlands, we'll probably see a WoW 2

[Zantos]

To sum up some of your points, no, its not because of how old it is. The new expansions have been lack luster in content, giving less and less each time. Is there a lot to do in the entirety of wow? Sure. But when you're trying to judge a single expansion based upon the content its adding right at launch, they have been getting lazier each one.

Lets take your example, TBC. Two new races were added, each with two new zones for leveling them. Each allowed for the chance for each side to have access to a class that it previously did not. 16 new dungeons. 7 new leveling zones in the outland, bringing the total added zones to 11. And 6 raids.

Now lets look at the upcoming Dragonflight so far. 1 new race that is locked to 1 new class. 4 new zones (7 less then bc). 8 dungeons (half of BC). and 1 raid (5 less then BC).

Looking purely from a base content stand point, BC had more. Dragonflight is just the continuation of the trend of less and less. That is where a lot of the dissatisfaction actually comes from. Lack on content being added. I highly doubt we will ever see a WoW 2. It doesn't need it. The biggest hurdle would be convincing people who have spent years on 1 character, getting hundreds of mounts, pets, toys, cosmetics, achievements and titles to just leave all of that behind to go to a brand new version. Unless they could transfer an entire account with all of its stuff in tact to WoW 2, not happening.

[Zardas]

To sum up some of your points, no, its not because of how old it is. The new expansions have been lack luster in content, giving less and less each time. Is there a lot to do in the entirety of wow? Sure. But when you're trying to judge a single expansion based upon the content its adding right at launch, they have been getting lazier each one.

Lets take your example, TBC. Two new races were added, each with two new zones for leveling them. Each allowed for the chance for each side to have access to a class that it previously did not. 16 new dungeons. 7 new leveling zones in the outland, bringing the total added zones to 11. And 6 raids.

Now lets look at the upcoming Dragonflight so far. 1 new race that is locked to 1 new class. 4 new zones (7 less then bc). 8 dungeons (half of BC). and 1 raid (5 less then BC).

Looking purely from a base content stand point, BC had more. Dragonflight is just the continuation of the trend of less and less. That is where a lot of the dissatisfaction actually comes from. Lack on content being added. I highly doubt we will ever see a WoW 2. It doesn't need it. The biggest hurdle would be convincing people who have spent years on 1 character, getting hundreds of mounts, pets, toys, cosmetics, achievements and titles to just leave all of that behind to go to a brand new version. Unless they could transfer an entire account with all of its stuff in tact to WoW 2, not happening.

You can't compare BC zones with today zones, neither can you do it for the dungeons : yes BC added almost twice as much zones as Shadowland, but Shadowland zones are much more packed with content. Yes Hellfire Peninsula is huge, but half of it is just red no-man's land, and same goes with the majority of BC zones.
As for the dungeons, yes BC got 16 dungeons, but only 13 of them shared the same 4 environnments, and two of them reused vanilla assets.
Same for raids, when you compare the number of bosses of BC raids of Shadowland raids, the difference is much smaller, and it's hard to consider them as equals anyway...

And all of that is not considering all the additionnal content that you get today that you didn't before (new zones, new systems, chapter-based story, seasons, etc...). Saying that today's content is less than the content from times like BC is considering only what validate your point, and all of that with a very biased eye.

[Alvito]

Before you jump on me, let me explain. I'm pretty sure a lot of dissatisfaction with expansions is simply due to how old the game is. Imagine if TBC came out today as a new expansion. People would be complaining left and right at how little content there was, how totally imbalanced the the arena system was, and how the Illidan storyline was not integrated into the casual experience at all. TBC would have been another WoD if it came out today. But back then, WoW's gameplay was still fresh. It was still innovative in a lot of ways, so people tolerated what was a largely half-baked expansion by today's standards.

There's more to do in WoW right now than ever before. Alt leveling is a lot more friendly than it was back then, there are piles and piles of cosmetics and mounts to chase after. There's PvP, raiding, dungeons, world quests, covenants, nicely integrated storylines for the solo player, and so much content it would make a 2006 player's head spin.

And yet, I've never seen people more unhappy with the game, myself included. Why? As I said earlier, I think the game is just old. It's still a good MMO, objectively speaking. But, 2022 games just feel better to play than 2004 ones. Have you ever seen that a company was doing a remake of an old game you played and you got hyped for it, only to play it and realize you'd rather just play its sequel, or whatever its newest iteration was? Game engines have come a long way since 2004.

Anyway, I think the disparity between WoW and modern games will only become more great as we move further into the 2020s. With Unreal Engine 5 looking absolutely incredible and more accessible to small developers, we're going to see even your average run of the mill games completely outclass WoW's gameplay, which used to be fresh and innovative. Blizzard has always been great an innovating, and taking older ideas and polishing them to a perfect sheen. This talent that they possess has largely been wasted by continuing to publish a 17 year old game. Yes, people still play it and give them money, which is why Blizzard continues to develop it. But, I think players are becoming more and more aware of the gameplay disparity, and this is largely why dissatisfaction with the game is growing, not because of specific content. It will probably get to a point where they are caught with their pants down and suddenly the game is empty. BFA and SL were pretty clear warning signs. If Dragonflight continues with the dissatisfaction trend, we'll probably see a sequel, or a massive engine/visual upgrade at the very least.

Without a massive shift back to MMOs we will never see a WoW2. The massive upfront commitment of funds and employee hours is such a massive investment we won't see it. If WoW actually dies off that isn't going to prompt them to further invest and start again.

[azka]

Before you jump on me, let me explain. I'm pretty sure a lot of dissatisfaction with expansions is simply due to how old the game is. Imagine if TBC came out today as a new expansion. People would be complaining left and right at how little content there was, how totally imbalanced the the arena system was, and how the Illidan storyline was not integrated into the casual experience at all. TBC would have been another WoD if it came out today. But back then, WoW's gameplay was still fresh. It was still innovative in a lot of ways, so people tolerated what was a largely half-baked expansion by today's standards.

There's more to do in WoW right now than ever before. Alt leveling is a lot more friendly than it was back then, there are piles and piles of cosmetics and mounts to chase after. There's PvP, raiding, dungeons, world quests, covenants, nicely integrated storylines for the solo player, and so much content it would make a 2006 player's head spin.

And yet, I've never seen people more unhappy with the game, myself included. Why? As I said earlier, I think the game is just old. It's still a good MMO, objectively speaking. But, 2022 games just feel better to play than 2004 ones. Have you ever seen that a company was doing a remake of an old game you played and you got hyped for it, only to play it and realize you'd rather just play its sequel, or whatever its newest iteration was? Game engines have come a long way since 2004.

Anyway, I think the disparity between WoW and modern games will only become more great as we move further into the 2020s. With Unreal Engine 5 looking absolutely incredible and more accessible to small developers, we're going to see even your average run of the mill games completely outclass WoW's gameplay, which used to be fresh and innovative. Blizzard has always been great an innovating, and taking older ideas and polishing them to a perfect sheen. This talent that they possess has largely been wasted by continuing to publish a 17 year old game. Yes, people still play it and give them money, which is why Blizzard continues to develop it. But, I think players are becoming more and more aware of the gameplay disparity, and this is largely why dissatisfaction with the game is growing, not because of specific content. It will probably get to a point where they are caught with their pants down and suddenly the game is empty. BFA and SL were pretty clear warning signs. If Dragonflight continues with the dissatisfaction trend, we'll probably see a sequel, or a massive engine/visual upgrade at the very least.

There will be no WOW2.0.
Everybody and their mother that have 10+ y/o accounts will simply quit if they do that.
About the gameplay, WOW has the best gameplay of all MMOs. Gameplay is not only a game engine thing.

[Shadowferal]

Everybody and their mother that have 10+ y/o accounts will simply quit if they do that.

Not sure that such accounts make up a significant number these days.

[xVicarious]

No, we won't.

[Relapses]

We're already fantasizing about DF's inevitable failure?

[Shadowferal]

We're already fantasizing about DF's inevitable failure?

Hmm...the cinematic isn't reassuring. And what followed from WoD on down seems to be a pattern Blizz can't seem to break out of.

But..."wait and see" I guess.

[Ielenia]

No, we won't.

Hmmmm.....

I mean, you say he's wrong but you can't seem to prove it.

[Bigbazz]

What is with people and "WoW 2".. It'd take them damn near a decade to develop a new game and unless they ported across a tonne of stuff the game would be miniscule compared to what we have now. New graphics aren't going to make the game good and people who think that it would make any difference at all beyond the fair-weather "new game" experience are delusional and stupid.

WoW 2 isn't happening, doesn't make sense for anyone involved.

[NineSpine]

There was no customizablity of the garrison in WoD. They had like 6 pre determined spots to put uncustomizable buildings in those spots. You couldn't say "I want a chair right there and a poster on the wall and and a table here." The garrison was just a glorified instanced quest hub with upgradeable buildings. All the server had to remember was "level 3 townhall, level 3 barn, and level 3 mine, etc."

That's the technology. The rest is just granularity within that framework.

[Shadowferal]

What is with people and "WoW 2".. It'd take them damn near a decade to develop a new game and unless they ported across a tonne of stuff the game would be miniscule compared to what we have now.

I've initially thought that'd have to take the game offline for a year just to fix everything concerning the lore. Now I'd say that they could do all the writing and rewriting, programming and structure on a separate framework while the current game is running. After the going through beta testing phase,...when it's all ready for prime time take the current game offline for a day and replace it with new. Logging in should smoothly take you to the splash screen and into the new version. Okay, that word "smoothly" is probably a bit of a reach.

*sigh*
Who am I kidding...I am fantasizing...

[Azharok]

There are already other games that rival WoW in dungeon and raid design. No, WoW continues to exist because of its aesthetics. No other game lets you play as beastman savages who go around burning treehugger cities or dropping napalm on panda village, or be a muscular man with huge shoulderpads.

Which MMORPGs rival WoW in dungeon and raid design ? I'm genuinely curious.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Which MMORPGs rival WoW in dungeon and raid design ? I'm genuinely curious.

None, but you have to consider the source here

[Aleksej89]

imho no chance for wow 2

[Lahis]

If Dragonflight flops as bad as BFA and SL, there won't be any WoW afterwards. Why woudl they pour in resource into more failing game?

[craigw]

Even if a WoW 2 happens, most of us wouldn't enjoy it. All of the people who made the classic Blizzard games we know and love are long gone. NuBlizzard shovels out crap and there is no reason to believe that they won't continue shoveling out crap.



Most visually imaginative expansion in the game's history. The Morrowind of Warcraft. Would be favorably received.



More content than any expansion since MoP.



Please. WoD had a lot more pressing problems than not having a state of the art game engine.



Log in, do your 20 minutes of chores, log off. And do the same raid once a week for the next 9 months. And maybe do a BG or two if you feel like it. So much to do!



Still conceptually sucks, and everyone still playing WoW has levelled up their alts long, long ago.



Farming Invincible for 10 years and still not getting the drop isn't fun.



Only BGs, which have been stale for the past 10 years. Arenas are mediocre and huge army battles out in the world haven't happened in a decade. You certainly wouldn't see this happen nowadays:





We aren't teenagers with no job and no responsibilities and unlimited free time to waste on fighting the same bosses for hours every week for 9 months on end and getting entangled in petty guild drama anymore. It's nice to do once for the spectacle and then never again. And farming for cosmetics sucks.



Boring corridors you do in 20 minutes, and then farm the same half dozen dungeons over and over for two years chasing slightly better numbers.



Imagine thinking that this is meaningful content, even compared to the fleshed out reputation questlines of old.



Actually an interesting idea but terribly implemented.



*laughs*



So much content that is bifurcated, terribly presented, and practically impossible to attempt. Nobody is doing the Battle of Dazar'alor anymore synced.



Who knew that catering to 5% of your playerbase leaves you with 5% of your playerbase! Who knew that insulting your customers and refusing to give them what they are paying for for years on end only drives them away! Who knew that declining quantity and quality of meaningful content while the price of playing goes up drives people away! Makes you think.



People still play old games and find fun. Those games were better designed.



I would rather play an old SNES or PS1 era JRPG than any state of the art AAA game coming out of the West today.



Nope. 9 out of 10 times remakes suck compared to the original so I never get hyped for them.



Game design matters more than "muh engine". I find games with technically worse engines to be better than most games coming out today with all of their bells and whistles, because they had better design and aesthetics. They had soul.



Blizzard's talent has drained away over the past 15 years. The inmates are running the asylum at this point. Anyone still at Blizzard isn't there because they make good games. If they were they would be at a different company.

- - - Updated - - -



There are already other games that rival WoW in dungeon and raid design. No, WoW continues to exist because of its aesthetics. No other game lets you play as beastman savages who go around burning treehugger cities or dropping napalm on panda village, or be a muscular man with huge shoulderpads.

- - - Updated - - -



Graphical fidelity ≠ aesthetics. Newer games may be technically superior but look aesthetically garbage to many older games.

HA! chrono trigger had an update on steam a few weeks back. a 30 year old game being updated. crazy. those late 80s and early/mid 90s JRPG's.......best rpg era ever.

[Onikaroshi]

None, but you have to consider the source here

He'd probably say FF, but while FF has great raids, they're not nearly as good as wows raids (and FF gear is boring, like, super fucking boring)

[chrisisvacant]

I've initially thought that'd have to take the game offline for a year just to fix everything concerning the lore. Now I'd say that they could do all the writing and rewriting, programming and structure on a separate framework while the current game is running. After the going through beta testing phase,...when it's all ready for prime time take the current game offline for a day and replace it with new. Logging in should smoothly take you to the splash screen and into the new version. Okay, that word "smoothly" is probably a bit of a reach.

*sigh*
Who am I kidding...I am fantasizing...

Fix everything concerning the lore? They're telling the story they want to tell. Not the story you want to tell. Create a blog for that.

[D3athsting]

We aren't teenagers with no job and no responsibilities and unlimited free time to waste on fighting the same bosses for hours every week for 9 months on end and getting entangled in petty guild drama anymore. It's nice to do once for the spectacle and then never again. And farming for cosmetics sucks.

Holy crap this game seems to make the worst burst out of people, honestly i'm too old to come back from work just to see millenials thinking that a multiplayer game is a nice way to vent their irl frustrations, speaking of guild drama, well it's the always the s*it over and over, gm is never online (why do you make a guild if you don't have the time to manage it's beyond my comprehension), drama between members grows slowly over any kind of reason, officers just put the dust under the rug letting people know everything's ok until gm calls for a guild meeting in ts, pandora's vase gets opened and guild goes boom