View Poll Results: Is Sepulcher the hardest raid tier ever?

Voters
221. This poll is closed
  • Yes for all levels of difficulty

    93 42.08%
  • Yes for world-first, no for the rest

    52 23.53%
  • No for world-first, yes for the rest

    12 5.43%
  • No for all levels of difficulty

    64 28.96%
Page 7 of 11 FirstFirst ...
5
6
7
8
9
... LastLast
  1. #121
    Geez these are not some trivial nerfs, the version of Mythic Halondrus that the world-first raiders fought is nothing like what it will be now.

    https://www.wowhead.com/news/massive...eset-30-326851
    Raid bosses will always be very similar so long as encounter design requires DPS to always be pumping 100%.

  2. #122
    High Overlord Filfa's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Straya
    Posts
    101
    It could have been, but they continue to nerf it into the ground

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    Patch dropped Feb 22, I'm already forgetting if the raid was a week later and then mythic a week after that...anyhoo it's April 18 at midnight and 15 guilds have Jailer on wowprogress, 14 Horde 1 Alliance.

    Vodka is in world rank 53 being the most recent to get 10/11, Melee Mechanics is 93 with a Mythic Anduin kill, and world 186 is the most recent to get Mythic Halondrus.

    A mythic Lihuvim kill would also barely get a US guild in to the US top 250.
    Nope not even remotely the hardest. Maybe top 10.

  4. #124
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    In some Sanctuaryesque place or a Haven
    Posts
    44,683
    Quote Originally Posted by Filfa View Post
    It could have been, but they continue to nerf it into the ground
    In general the tuning was overkill(Not speaking for Mythic).
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

    Warrior-Magi

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Pretty sure there has been raids that took much longer to down bosses. but i do hope it isn't the easiest raid. A good challenge is always good to have.
    But some of those you have to discount for things like hard timegating like SWP and ICC, limited attempts like heroic LK (50 tries per week), and things being completely and utterly broken and unbeatable like Ouro and C'thun.

    The limited attempts thing would've made the race take at least 6 weeks unless the WF teams had multiple geared teams to attempt.

    For Sepulcher we had genuinely nasty bosses like Halondrus who had to be nerfed multiple times before the WF kills, and notorious guys like Anduin who had been nerfed probably literally a dozen times since launch.
    Last edited by cparle87; 2022-05-02 at 12:19 AM.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Imagine having 3 teams geared for limited attempts. So much punishment.
    Yeah, that would be brutal. Or like in SWP when only the first three(?) bosses were available for a couple weeks after launch, then you got two more for a few more weeks, and it was like 6 weeks to 2 months before the last boss was even available. People would flip.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  7. #127
    Due to my work schedule and deactivating after I get the kill, I pug my way through the tiers. And Zovaal might be a real monster given his difficulty, the fact that gear doesn't prevent players from falling in holes, and his disappointing loot table. Coupled with the fact I can't really play during peak hours and that Alliance off-peak hours aren't what they used to be, this is gonna be a real challenge for me.

    It seems the majority of pugs are still on Anduin/Rygelon so it will get easier as time goes on.

    When I would post a run for Denathrius I'd have some 20+ applicants. I'm putting up a Zovaal run and getting literally one person every ten minutes.
    Raid bosses will always be very similar so long as encounter design requires DPS to always be pumping 100%.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    Due to my work schedule and deactivating after I get the kill, I pug my way through the tiers. And Zovaal might be a real monster given his difficulty, the fact that gear doesn't prevent players from falling in holes, and his disappointing loot table. Coupled with the fact I can't really play during peak hours and that Alliance off-peak hours aren't what they used to be, this is gonna be a real challenge for me.

    It seems the majority of pugs are still on Anduin/Rygelon so it will get easier as time goes on.

    When I would post a run for Denathrius I'd have some 20+ applicants. I'm putting up a Zovaal run and getting literally one person every ten minutes.
    Yeah the loot on Jailer is the biggest "error" by Blizzard in Shadowlands.

    I also believe they had some world first blood DKs stream with the Jailer mace to encourage people to actually bother killing him on heroic. Possibly even ninja-buffed it.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  9. #129
    So there is ANOTHER round of nerfs, mostly to the easier difficulties
    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...xes-may-2-2022

    It's kind of odd to me because they nerfed the easiest fights much more than the harder ones. Desaugne halos last one second longer, Prototype Pantheon adds have less health, Xy'mox the small adds have less health and do less damage.

    Some nerfs that are slightly more appropriate IMO is a reduction in Lightshatter Beam damage on Halondrus and Rygelon puddles last longer.

    I'm a little surprised they nerfed Rygelon's health as 95% of the fight is getting people in to puddles, but it will give a little more flexibility if someone goes down early.

    I am a little surprised; Prototype Pantheon wasn't in need of big nerfs IMO, yet the Jailer, who is literally being skipped by a lot of guilds that are 3-5 bosses in to mythic, is untouched. Although I'd rather see Zovaal's loot table get buffed with an amazing caster staff than the actual fight get nerfed.


    Lihuvim
    [With realm restarts] Acquisitions Automa's Detonation radius reduced to 20 yards (was 40) on Normal and Heroic difficulties.
    [With realm restarts] The cast time of Detonation has been increased to 2.5 seconds (was 2 seconds) on Normal and Heroic difficulties.
    Artificer Xy’mox
    [With realm restarts] Xy Spellslinger health reduced by 20%.
    [With realm restarts] Debilitating Ray periodic damage reduced by 20%.
    Prototype Pantheon
    [With realm restarts] Wildstorm has been removed from Normal and Raid finder difficulties.
    [With realm restarts] Sinful Projections has been removed from Heroic difficulty.
    [With realm restarts] Decreased the health of Necrotic Ritualists by 30% health on Normal difficulty, 15% health on Heroic difficulty.
    [With realm restarts] Decreased the health of Withering Seeds by 30% health on Normal and Raid Finder difficulties, 20% health on Heroic difficulty, and 10% health on Mythic difficulty, but also resolved a bug that caused them to trigger an Invigorating Bloom at 90% health instead of 100% health as the spell description states.
    [With realm restarts] Resolved a scaling issue causing the Withering Seeds to increase their health too steeply on larger raid sizes.
    Halondrus the Reclaimer
    Fixed an issue causing damage from Lance and Lightshatter Beam to ignore some damage reduction effects.
    Fixed an issue causing Volatile Charges to break if the player carrying the Volatile Charge disconnected.
    [With realm restarts] Lightshatter Beam damage decreased by 30% on Raid Finder, Normal and Heroic difficulties.
    [With realm restarts] Reclaim's periodic damage effect scales more slowly on Heroic difficulty.
    Skolex, the Insatiable Ravener
    [With realm restarts] Missile travel time for Devouring Blood increased to 2.5s (was 2s) on Heroic difficulty.
    Dausegne, the Fallen Oracle
    [With realm restarts] Duration of Disintegration Halo debuff lowered to 5s (was 6s) on Heroic difficulty.
    Rygelon
    [With realm restarts] Increased the duration of Collapsing Quasar Field to 10 seconds on Normal and Heroic difficulties.
    [With realm restarts] Decreased Rygelon's health by 5% on Heroic difficulty.
    The Jailer
    [With realm restarts] All trapdoors will now close in Phase 3 on Normal difficulty.
    [With realm restarts] Decreased knockback of Decimator on Normal and Raid Finder difficulties.
    [With realm restarts] Decreased knockback of Misery on Normal difficulty.
    [With realm restarts] Decreased rate of growth of Defile on Normal difficulty.

    Although it's feelycraft I feel like Sepulcher has been nerfed more than any modern raid tier in memory. And I wouldn't be surprised if we see more Jailer and Rygelon nerfs as the more casual guilds start crashing in to them.
    Last edited by garicasha; 2022-05-03 at 02:28 PM.
    Raid bosses will always be very similar so long as encounter design requires DPS to always be pumping 100%.

  10. #130
    I agree, I think the nerfs are to the bosses that don't really need it. I think something needs to be done about Jailer Heroic, at least with the scaling. We're usually playing with 10-12 people and you still get 3 MCs, 3 bombs, etc.

  11. #131
    No, I don't think so, I think that title still belongs to Tomb of Sargeras.

  12. #132
    It's so hard to judge.

    Halondrus went from being undoubtedly the hardest mid-tier boss of all time to barely distinguishable from heroic, but Anduin could've been an end boss in its own right, & Rygelon was a monster for the big guilds early on. Jailer though... Jailer is no KJ. KJ will always carry that weight with due to how ridiculous the tuning was early on, & even for a 3-day guild getting to the fight later you were still looking at 400+ pulls (I think it took us 490~). The top end raiders are even better now than they were back in 2017, so maybe the difference between KJ & Jailer isn't as big as it might first appear.

    That said, I'm going to go with KJ still perhaps being the hardest boss of a traditional tier, & SotFO as having the highest difficulty tuning overall. Outside of Avatar (& an honorable mention to Mistress Sazzsine), nothing in the run up to KJ holds a candle to Anduin, Rygelon, & pre-nerf Halondrus.

  13. #133
    I think more people will clear Sepulcher because it’s almost certainly gonna be out way longer.

    But yah with the number of nerfs we’re Still getting it’s definitely one of the hardest. If I remember right usually about 3-4 weeks after launch there’s a big raid tuning fix and then after that it’s usually a couple minor tweaks.

    But here at 10 weeks they’re still gutting fights at all levels of difficulty.
    Raid bosses will always be very similar so long as encounter design requires DPS to always be pumping 100%.

  14. #134
    The Lightbringer Battlebeard's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    3,527
    This is by far the hardest raid ever made, which is reflected in this being the raid with the most insane requirements to join. 260ilvl for normal, that drops 252-259 gear is just a joke. Heroic requiring at least 270, usually 275, same insanity.

  15. #135
    May 10 this time normal and LFR Jailer are getting hefty nerfs to knockbacks and trapdoors.
    Raid bosses will always be very similar so long as encounter design requires DPS to always be pumping 100%.

  16. #136
    And another massive set of nerfs today, May 17, to Mythic Anduin, Rygelon, and Jailer.

    I can’t speak much for the actual fights, I just read avoiding the blasphemy /Kingsmourne overlap is very handy.

    A lot of abilities of Rygelon had their damage reduced by 25-33% which also seems massive.

    I bet a lot of these are happening so season 4 isn’t so hard.
    Raid bosses will always be very similar so long as encounter design requires DPS to always be pumping 100%.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    I bet a lot of these are happening so season 4 isn’t so hard.
    Having 60% fewer raiding guilds (N or above, as judged by wowprogress) in this season vs. CN may also have something to do with it.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  18. #138
    Wait so Hall of Fame is top 100 worldwide? Thought it was by region.

    Dude only 32 US guilds have gotten Mythic Jailer by May 17 (gratz Elusive of Zul'Jin), mythic was available March 8. That seems super low for the beginning of week 11.

    There's also just under US 1000 ...guilds or kills or Heroic Jailer, although pugs might not count.

    What screen on wowprogress did you go to see normal clears?



    ...and if Dragonlands isn't coming until Q1 2023...well let's just say the next eight months are gonna be a bad time to be a recruitment officer.
    Raid bosses will always be very similar so long as encounter design requires DPS to always be pumping 100%.

  19. #139
    Legendary! Ealyssa's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Switzerland, Geneva
    Posts
    6,999
    LFR and Normal are easier than a few previous raids (especially with the last nerf wave) but Heroic and especially Mythic are a different beast for your average heroic/mythic guilds.
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    What screen on wowprogress did you go to see normal clears?
    You can get the total number of raiding guilds by taking the kill # for any boss and dividing by the percentage (scaled by 100). I wasn't talking about normal CLEARS, just the total number of guilds that had downed (as a guild) any boss in N or above.

    Or, if you want the actual normal results, bring up the page for a heroic boss, then edit the URL to replace -heroic with -normal.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •