1. #18501
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    I really dunno how we got here…
    The defense of the honor of some guy who doesn't even post in this thread anymore, every time he's brought up

  2. #18502
    Please excuse for dragging this out again as I really don't appreciate the gaslighting but here is the quote that drove me up the wall:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I don't want shit. Thankfully it's not my war to wage because I got outta there 20 years ago.

    I just find this cynical view of cheerfully goading people to die to satisfy your "fighting to the bitter end" fetish to be... let's say disturbing. It's not a movie there, real people really really dying.

    That's why yes - the only real way out with the least casualties IS seize fire and IS very unfortunately having to satisfy some of Russia's ambitions there, because again - right now they have the biggest stick in this whole thing.

    You want to fight Russia to the bitter end? Be my guest, just don't casually expect others to do this for you.
    A reply to a more reasonable PC2 post, no less.

    Ukrainians are a sovereign nation who had already made their decision and in light of further events, thank god. Yes this is the "surrender" post because how else are we supposed to take it? along with the attempted shaming of supporting the Ukrainian defense. All class man. Probably better to just stay quiet.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

  3. #18503
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Not really that meaningful a difference in interpretation, whether transitive or intransitive in use.

    Or pick whatever other dictionary you like. I repeat; you do not have any source you can cite that supports your use of the word.
    Massive lulz.

    When used without an object, there is only one meaning for the verb "surrender", and it doesn't include the meaning in which you "relinquish" some territory.

    So "Ukraine surrendered Donbas" is fundamentally different in meaning from "Ukraine surrendered".


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  4. #18504
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    Well, this thread certainly took a turn for the mundane.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    And again, let’s presume equity in schools is achievable. Then why should a parent read to a child?

  5. #18505
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    I was raised by an English professor.
    Then they quite probably would be ashamed of your ignorance in this matter, as you have little excuse.


    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Literally all of those agree with me and contradict your use of the word. You're shitting me, right?
    Literally none of it agrees with you, for the reasons I've stated. You're apparently shitting yourself.

    ...oh, that came out wrong.

    ...double phrasing!


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  6. #18506
    Over 9000! Milchshake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    Well, this thread certainly took a turn for the mundane.
    Some people want to win at MMOC ... desperately so.

  7. #18507
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Massive lulz.

    When used without an object, there is only one meaning for the verb "surrender", and it doesn't include the meaning in which you "relinquish" some territory.

    So "Ukraine surrendered Donbas" is fundamentally different in meaning from "Ukraine surrendered".
    In that it specifies "Donbas", yes.

    In this case, to use the Merriam-Webster since you cited it first, Ukraine is yielding (Donbas) to the possession or power, control, or possession of another upon compulsion or demand. As Ukraine is Donbas in this hypothetical, this is also giving oneself (a part of Ukraine itself) up into the power of another (Russia).

    Both are accurate, and fundamentally mean the same thing in this context. "Surrender" is not two entirely separate verbs that do not share a connection. It is a verb that can be used both transitively and intransitively, without a significant shift in meaning, just in scope.

    To use M-W's own example in the both senses; a military company surrendering the fort to the besiegers is surrendering, and that's a surrender (oh look, it's the noun version).

    Yes, this is basic English. And you're getting it completely wrong. Your own sources contradict you on this.

    I'm not continuing this any further at this point, since I (and ironically, you yourself) have made my case. It's derailing, and all so you can try and play defense for some posters who had bad takes like a month ago. Fuckin' weird and it's not worth continuing.
    Last edited by Endus; 2022-05-03 at 01:52 AM.


  8. #18508
    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
    Have not seen it mentioned, but here is the daily something is on fire/exploded in Russia.
    Massive explosion moments ago at the Perm gunpowder plant in Russia, which produces components for Grad and Smerch missiles as well as air defense systems.
    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/statu...32312821383168
    This is another very crucial one given the massive amounts of rockets they have been firing. A single volley from a grad requires an entire truckload to replace.

    And given that very early on they had gone 24/7 in producing the rockets having the factory that manufactures the propellant charges for the rockets go down is a major problem.

  9. #18509
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker76 View Post
    Some people want to win at MMOC ... desperately so.
    *grabs popcorn and watches* My English language education only allows me to spectate and see which is the real truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  10. #18510
    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
    Have not seen it mentioned, but here is the daily something is on fire/exploded in Russia.
    Massive explosion moments ago at the Perm gunpowder plant in Russia, which produces components for Grad and Smerch missiles as well as air defense systems.
    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/statu...32312821383168
    All of these that happen far from the border is making me think there's a chance of a small scale insurgency going on in Russia.

  11. #18511
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    Considering this is helpful to no one, cease derailing the thread with off-topic condescension. Grammar policing isn't appropriate, especially to this extent.
    Moderator of the General Off-Topic, Politics, Lore, and RP Forums
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  12. #18512
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    All of these that happen far from the border is making me think there's a chance of a small scale insurgency going on in Russia.
    One can only hope there are many Russians dissatisfied with Putler regime. Maybe even enough for acts of sabotage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  13. #18513
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Wasn't this supposed to be their "big push"? Were they supposed to march tens of kilometers eastward?
    Pretty much, it was the big offensive the "distraction" at Kyiv was (suposedly) preparing for.

    They're just drip feeding units into the teeth of entrenched Ukrainian defenses, taking horrific casualties while having gained as war criminal/Romanov LARP'er Igor Girikin phrased it, the distance from my flat to the closest store.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, ftr, when Ukraine and Russia were still talking Ukraine putatively agreed to all of Russia's demands (in what form we don't know, I suspect the no NATO was agreed to with the assumption Ukraine would just get security guarantees anyway, for example) save the territory Russia wanted. It was the last thing the Ukrainians wanted to give up, despite a big chunk of Donetsk and Lubansk and all of Crimea being in de facto Russian hands.

  14. #18514
    In what I hope is an ongoing saga in me posting stuff being on fire in Russia here is part 2 for today.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarV...w_russia_fire/
    Large Warehouse its on fire Moscow, Russia

  15. #18515
    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
    In what I hope is an ongoing saga in me posting stuff being on fire in Russia here is part 2 for today.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarV...w_russia_fire/
    Large Warehouse its on fire Moscow, Russia
    Storms have been known to cause mayhem. Maybe it was the same storm that sank Moskva.

    What was in the warehouse?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  16. #18516
    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    What was in the warehouse?
    Invisible nazis. It had to be destroyed, there was no other choise.

  17. #18517
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    All of these that happen far from the border is making me think there's a chance of a small scale insurgency going on in Russia.
    This one has been on fire a few times in the last few years though, so I'm chalking this up to plain old incompetence.

  18. #18518
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    This one has been on fire a few times in the last few years though, so I'm chalking this up to plain old incompetence.
    Or fraud/covering up missing stock.

  19. #18519
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Given the amount of animosity towards russians right now here in Finland I'm not surprised. It's politically very unpopular. I think only Ano Turtiainen (VKK) is rather rabidly pro-russian? Likewise with NATO membership, from what I hear around me quite a few people won't be voting for any politician that's against it. Which will likely hurt the Vasemistoliito.
    Don't forget Erkki "Örkki" Tuomioja.

  20. #18520
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afrospinach View Post
    Please excuse for dragging this out again as I really don't appreciate the gaslighting but here is the quote that drove me up the wall:



    A reply to a more reasonable PC2 post, no less.

    Ukrainians are a sovereign nation who had already made their decision and in light of further events, thank god. Yes this is the "surrender" post because how else are we supposed to take it? along with the attempted shaming of supporting the Ukrainian defense. All class man. Probably better to just stay quiet.
    That drove you to a wall? Dayum.

    I'll repeat it again and I have no issue saying this. The only realistic, non-fantasy way this will come to an end is through agreement and in this agreement Ukraine will have to give up some stuff at least for the time being.

    No amount of Twitter memes will change the reality that Ukraine can't really militarily take back Crimea or Donbas, so yes when agreement inevitably comes at the very very least Ukraine will be forced to put Crimea on hold in one way or another and pray Donbas returns to Ukraine as some of autonomy.

    It's not a "pro-Russian" stance or "surrender" - it's simply the way things are as it stands. When Ukraine will actually start winning back what it lost in 2014 - I will revisit this, but until then - I don't see them doing it even with Russian army as it is. They are not wrong about it being orcish horde, disorganized but still a huge force.

    Like, maybe there will be some sort of coup in Russia that will change things, but as long as it's not on the table - I don't see Russia just leaving parts of Donbas and Crimea that they hard capped for years already.

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