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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    They will. But not by the regular player. It's just that the armchair generals on the forums will consider that because some people who trained and prepared specifically for the raid for years will be able to rush it as soon as it re-release, then it means that the raid is piss easy.
    Just like Mythic bosses which are killed by maybe 5 % of the overall population are described as freeloot by the forum clowns.
    A tribute to immortality will be impossible to do without a fully gear unhittable tank, a tank has to get a complete other set of gear for that last boss and only 14 guilds ever done it, alone in the darkness may be possible but it took several months to kill so it may be limited by gear the same as LK HC 25.
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  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    A tribute to immortality will be impossible to do without a fully gear unhittable tank, a tank has to get a complete other set of gear for that last boss and only 14 guilds ever done it, alone in the darkness may be possible but it took several months to kill so it may be limited by gear the same as LK HC 25.
    The gear for tanking a tribute to immortality mostly comes from earlier raids like Naxx/Ulduar. If you know about the strategy beforehand it will literally be easy to prepare for. The boss was genuinely hard, but our Warrior tank had the gear already when we did 10man HC, it wasn't hard to put together.

    I expect this achievement to drop like a fly when dedicated tryhards go at it with the blueprint already laid out infront of them.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2021-04-02 at 01:53 AM.
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  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    The gear for tanking a tribute to immortality mostly comes from earlier raids like Naxx/Ulduar. If you know about the strategy beforehand it will literally be easy to prepare for. The boss was genuinely hard, but our Warrior tank had the gear already when we did 10man HC, it wasn't hard to put together.

    I expect this achievement to drop like a fly when dedicated tryhards go at it with the blueprint already laid out infront of them.
    Its not going to be a common achiement only a handful of guilds will be able to do it and your not able to just boost ppl unless you play for them, it wont be too hard for private server guilds who have done the content a thousand times, depends if they practice it in lower gear or not to see if they can do it, chances are they have only done it in BiS ICC gear.
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  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister K View Post
    Saurfang was really a gear check.
    Putricide little more on mechanics side.

    I still believe the pugs won't be progressing far in Uld hardmodes/ICC HC (like Firefighter, Yogg, Freya) and few other ones. Naxx is still not that puggable just needs a guild.
    With Freya, iirc, like Sarth 3 drakes, people found that they could just burn the boss and avoid the mechanics of the adds with enough DPS. Since people are much better at doing DPS today then WOTLK I think you'd see that happening.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    A tribute to immortality will be impossible to do without a fully gear unhittable tank, a tank has to get a complete other set of gear for that last boss and only 14 guilds ever done it, alone in the darkness may be possible but it took several months to kill so it may be limited by gear the same as LK HC 25.
    Alone in the Darkness took months because it was believed to be "mathematically impossible" until Stars?(some chinese guild) did it and showed the strat, which I seem to remember relied heavily on a skilled hunter for misdirects or something.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Deferionus View Post
    With Freya, iirc, like Sarth 3 drakes, people found that they could just burn the boss and avoid the mechanics of the adds with enough DPS. Since people are much better at doing DPS today then WOTLK I think you'd see that happening.
    Wasnt Freya`s self heal drastically increased after a chinese guild cheesed their way to beat the encounter by lusting Freya down?

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Alone in the Darkness took months because it was believed to be "mathematically impossible" until Stars?(some chinese guild) did it and showed the strat, which I seem to remember relied heavily on a skilled hunter for misdirects or something.
    Possibly, I do remember one guild got banned for a while during the race because they were the first one (i think) to kill them, but they bugged the fight out with an evade bug of some kind.

  8. #268
    Bloodsail Admiral Xykotic's Avatar
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    While ICC25HC is a very fun and challenging raid, I think Ulduar heroic is quite a bit tougher. Yogg+0 was certainly harder than Lich King Heroic for us, think we only had somewhere between 50 and 60 wipes on LK HC, while I recall hitting 125 wipes on Yogg+0, and still doing about 10-20 more before he died.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Facefive View Post
    Wasnt Freya`s self heal drastically increased after a chinese guild cheesed their way to beat the encounter by lusting Freya down?
    Not that I remember. It became the standard Freya strategy that we did the rest of the time my guild did Ulduar. When I pugged it later in the expac on my alts we didn't have enough DPS to pull it off, but I don't remember that being the result of an encounter change. May have changed, but its been a decade at this point so I could just not be remembering it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Alone in the Darkness took months because it was believed to be "mathematically impossible" until Stars?(some chinese guild) did it and showed the strat, which I seem to remember relied heavily on a skilled hunter for misdirects or something.
    Hunter misdirects/kiting on the adds so they could bring more DPS and less tanks. Also, warlocks were featured heavily because their abilities did not require line of sight as affliction to maximize DPS, and drain soul had the execute component at the time. A lot of the Yogg fight has him in execute range, so this paired with the requirement to face away to avoid sanity loss made warlocks very good for the fight.

  10. #270
    To be honest, the 4 tiers of raid difficulty that exists today is what's turned me off retail wow.

    I enjoyed heroic 25 man ICC and Ulduar (and the hard mode challenges) and it was the 'right' level of difficulty for me ... challenging, took practice, but achievable. I've killed a few bosses in mythic raids in modern retail wow, but it just seems so ridiculously hard that i pretty much ignore them.

    - i've already cleared the content 3 times
    - the gear improvements are (mostly) just an ilvl bump on the same gear
    - the next patch will reset all the gear in 3-6 months time anyways.

    I realize there's some people who crave the balls-to-walls brutal mythic raid grind, and that mode is targeted to them. But its an increasingly smaller number of players, and it doesn't have the same swagger that it had back in the day when you had server first clears of the big raids and you saw all the gear wandering around Dalaran / Shattrath / Orgrimar / Stormwind.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Xykotic View Post
    While ICC25HC is a very fun and challenging raid, I think Ulduar heroic is quite a bit tougher. Yogg+0 was certainly harder than Lich King Heroic for us, think we only had somewhere between 50 and 60 wipes on LK HC, while I recall hitting 125 wipes on Yogg+0, and still doing about 10-20 more before he died.
    I remember people trying to 3-4 man Yog +0 after that expansion was over and it was still hard for some time lol.

  12. #272
    ICC 25H and Alone in the Dark are gonna both be easy for 'pushing' guilds, when released.

    They've been perfected for over a decade on private servers (actual, fully-coded ones, not 'fun servers').

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by probert View Post
    To be honest, the 4 tiers of raid difficulty that exists today is what's turned me off retail wow.

    I enjoyed heroic 25 man ICC and Ulduar (and the hard mode challenges) and it was the 'right' level of difficulty for me ... challenging, took practice, but achievable. I've killed a few bosses in mythic raids in modern retail wow, but it just seems so ridiculously hard that i pretty much ignore them.

    - i've already cleared the content 3 times
    - the gear improvements are (mostly) just an ilvl bump on the same gear
    - the next patch will reset all the gear in 3-6 months time anyways.

    I realize there's some people who crave the balls-to-walls brutal mythic raid grind, and that mode is targeted to them. But its an increasingly smaller number of players, and it doesn't have the same swagger that it had back in the day when you had server first clears of the big raids and you saw all the gear wandering around Dalaran / Shattrath / Orgrimar / Stormwind.
    I never really get what this means exactly because of ICC's self-nerfing system with the stacking buff. It's been glossed over a lot in this thread in general but there's a pretty gigantic difference between the HC ICC most people did and the HC ICC immediately on release.

  14. #274
    As someone who did 25M Heroic Prenerf...honestly didn't think it was that bad. The hardest part was the healing check on tanks, not getting insta gibbed by valkyr / balls , and avoiding shadow crashes.

    The dps check was easy, cooldown management wasn't nearly as big of a thing at the time. I think that if you have a group of people who can see and avoid shadow crashes that you'll have no issues. Occasional wipe to bad black floor spread but progression on that fight was very methodical, hardly any RNG in the fight that was bad.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatu;53127742[B
    ]As someone who did 25M Heroic Prenerf.[/B]..honestly didn't think it was that bad. The hardest part was the healing check on tanks, not getting insta gibbed by valkyr / balls , and avoiding shadow crashes.

    The dps check was easy, cooldown management wasn't nearly as big of a thing at the time. I think that if you have a group of people who can see and avoid shadow crashes that you'll have no issues. Occasional wipe to bad black floor spread but progression on that fight was very methodical, hardly any RNG in the fight that was bad.
    I'm honestly pretty vague on WotLK boss history but as far as I know HC 25 LK only got a few fixes to spirits and no other big nerfs besides the big global ICC one (Hellscream's Warsong/Strength of Wrynn). What does "Prenerf" mean here exactly.

    Actually correct me if wrong/educate me here, I like WoW "history" stuff.

    I feel people here are consistently ignoring the existence of the buff, pretending they've done it at a lower % than they did when it was live, or don't grasp just how much of a difference it made (For Arthas specifically).
    Last edited by Woobels; 2021-04-14 at 02:02 PM.

  16. #276
    Elemental Lord TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xykotic View Post
    While ICC25HC is a very fun and challenging raid, I think Ulduar heroic is quite a bit tougher. Yogg+0 was certainly harder than Lich King Heroic for us, think we only had somewhere between 50 and 60 wipes on LK HC, while I recall hitting 125 wipes on Yogg+0, and still doing about 10-20 more before he died.
    At what % buff increase on LK though? Even the 5% makes a MASSIVE difference to the fight.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Xykotic View Post
    While ICC25HC is a very fun and challenging raid, I think Ulduar heroic is quite a bit tougher. Yogg+0 was certainly harder than Lich King Heroic for us, think we only had somewhere between 50 and 60 wipes on LK HC, while I recall hitting 125 wipes on Yogg+0, and still doing about 10-20 more before he died.
    The one of two challenging things with LK HC was the limited attempts you had, was it 20 per week? I can't recall. We ended up world #37 and that was with a certain %increase in dmg, not very high though, but which was the second factor that trivialized the boss fight completely at the time.

    Meanwhile, with yogg 0, we were world 45, with a lot more attempts, but the reason behind that wasnt neccesarily it being much harder, but rather you usually wiped faster, and also had unlimited attempts. Both fights, together with mimiron hm, was super hard fights at the time.
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  18. #278
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    Personally I am looking forwards to bfa n’zoth or SL castle nathria.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pie Eater View Post
    Have you read the planned frost mage "nerfs" ?!? It's like nerfing a hangman's rope by coloring it blue.
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  19. #279
    So, WotLK Classic will happen and I'm curious if the callings in this thread will be true.

    There are many challenges in WotLK, be it Yogg+0, A Tribute to Immortality, A Tribute to Dedicated Insanity, LK heroic 25 with no buff...
    Sure, a minority will be able to do them fast (talking about gearing, everyone knows about the necessarity for an unhittable tank). But for the vast majority, those are quite unobtainable.

  20. #280
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    Compared to todays mechanics, yes, it's a complete joke. But we cannot forget the gear aspect, which is the only reason Tier 5 was hard, people really needed the gear and to minmax their performance to do it, even tho the mechanics themselves were easy.

    I won't play SWP, cause I hate wipes and have no interest in dying more, might return when people are overgeared. For WotLK, Naxx will be a joke, so will normal Ulduar.

    I remember ICC, even normal, every single pug did the first 4, but people actually struggled for quite some time to pug more than 4 bosses. In fact, the first boss and the third were easier on heroic than Rotface, Festergut etc were on normal.

    Still, I think 12/12 normal will be cleared quite easy, similar difficulty to Black Temple now. Heroic, well, we'll see. Mechanics will be easy but gear matter a lot too.

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