Would u like a 2h Enhanc shaman?

[Porcos Voadores]

Thinking about classic and stuff, would u like to have the option to choose to use dual weapons or a unique 2h?
it seems really unlogical to me to block this option from us just as how we can use daggers and enhanc can't dual wield AGI ones but element can use INT ones with a shield.
looking at how the skills work, it could be done in a way that we could dual wield, use a 2h weapon or use mace/shield too.
what r your thoughts ?

[Nelothi2]

It would be cool to have again
the major issue is that right now there are no agility 2h axes or maces in the game, they could add the stat as an option on them - i dont see why they havent.

[Unlimited Power]

It would be cool to have again
the major issue is that right now there are no agility 2h axes or maces in the game, they could add the stat as an option on them - i dont see why they havent.

This. The only shared weapon we'd currently be able to share with another class is agility staves, and only because 2h attack speed was normalized across all weapons to be 3.6 at some point.

And the classes that can use 2h agility weapons tend to use 2h polearms instead. In other words, they'd have to start creating 2h agility mace or axe weapons and even then, the mace would only be shared with druid and the axe only with hunters.

On a purely theoretical level? I enjoyed 2h in classic for what it was, but 2h enhancement wasn't really a thing in endgame content unless you were there to proc specific weapon procs like annihilation and otherwise just totem twist as a support for your melee group.

Autoattacking and hoping for a windfury proc isn't a playstyle and god knows enhancement isn't becoming a totem twisting support spec again, so 2h enhancement as people remember it is never returning.

For argument's sake, I'd be fine with a purely cosmetic 2h enhancement option, but the playstyle would have to be identical to dual wield.

[Nelothi2]

This. The only shared weapon we'd currently be able to share with another class is agility staves, and only because 2h attack speed was normalized across all weapons to be 3.6 at some point.

And the classes that can use 2h agility weapons tend to use 2h polearms instead. In other words, they'd have to start creating 2h agility mace or axe weapons and even then, the mace would only be shared with druid and the axe only with hunters.

On a purely theoretical level? I enjoyed 2h in classic for what it was, but 2h enhancement wasn't really a thing in endgame content unless you were there to proc specific weapon procs like annihilation and otherwise just totem twist as a support for your melee group.

Autoattacking and hoping for a windfury proc isn't a playstyle and god knows enhancement isn't becoming a totem twisting support spec again, so 2h enhancement as people remember it is never returning.

For argument's sake, I'd be fine with a purely cosmetic 2h enhancement option, but the playstyle would have to be identical to dual wield.

If they adjusted windfury to do an additional melee instead of just nature damage - it could be a good doom winds build.

would be nice to have the option - it would turn 2H enhance into the defacto pvp build for sure.
would also add flavor to the class. which, while they tried doing that with giving classes back a lot of spells - they forgot that flavor needs to have a function for anyone to care.

[Unlimited Power]

If they adjusted windfury to do an additional melee instead of just nature damage - it could be a good doom winds build.

would be nice to have the option - it would turn 2H enhance into the defacto pvp build for sure.
would also add flavor to the class. which, while they tried doing that with giving classes back a lot of spells - they forgot that flavor needs to have a function for anyone to care.

This is what Windfury weapon does currently. 2 extra attacks dealing 24% of AP physical damage. Not bonus damage, mind you, as Windfury doesn't deal auto attack damage + additional damage.

But even if Windfury dealt 2 hits of %AP bonus damage, the damage would still be negligible because auto attacks make up maybe about 5% of your total damage as enhancement.

First of all, Blizzard wanted to de-empathize the importance of weapons, so no ability actually scales with weapon damage anymore. Everything scales with attack power instead.

Second of all, Blizzard wants a majority of damage to come from an active source rather than passively through autoattacks. So you will never again see auto attacks do significantly enough damage for an oldschool Windfury to be relevant.

Third of all, Blizzard would never allow Vanilla style Windfury bursting players from 100% to <20% in a lucky proc in pvp. The scenario you're dreaming about could never exist in retail WoW to begin with.

[JPercussion]

I'd like to see it again. Same thing with SMF vs TG fury. It basically has the same problems, which they're trying to balance properly.

[Nelothi2]

First - its not a dream. its a discussion.

- I had thought WF was nature damage - my bad. I havent paid attention to WF in a long time. I never thought it was attack+ additional.
- no ability scales with weapon damage - but triggering an additional autos isnt the same thing
- wanting the majority of damage to come from active sources isnt a rule - see assassination rogues, and warriors. Melee is still a large part of their damage - it just happens to be how enhance is right now.
- Doom winds is active, this wouldnt give us the vanilla style windfury, as there is a cooldown on doom winds.

most importantly. this is a discussion about a topic that wont happen. its just a fun topic to talk about. we know it wont happen.

calm down internet warrior

[Oturanboa]

This
Third of all, Blizzard would never allow Vanilla style Windfury bursting players from 100% to <20% in a lucky proc in pvp. The scenario you're dreaming about could never exist in retail WoW to begin with.

convokecimicokke

yes for 2h enhancement! cosmetic only is fine!

[Twistnectar]

I would love to see the return of 2H enhancement shaman.

[Sunge]

What shaman needs is a rework, remove the hybrid rotation and make it a full melee

[Segus1992]

What shaman needs is a rework, remove the hybrid rotation and make it a full melee

Brave burner account you've got there with your troll take. If you want to bump the thread just bump it.

- - - Updated - - -

First of all, Blizzard wanted to de-empathize the importance of weapons, so no ability actually scales with weapon damage anymore. Everything scales with attack power instead.

Source of this? Not saying you're wrong but I've been trying to understand why weapons are still the #1 upgrade for melee despite this. Is weapon DPS purely auto attack damage?

[Unlimited Power]

Source of this? Not saying you're wrong but I've been trying to understand why weapons are still the #1 upgrade for melee despite this. Is weapon DPS purely auto attack damage?

This change happened in BFA. Here's a wowhead article about it. Weapon dps is only AA damage now.

[Segus1992]

This change happened in BFA. Here's a wowhead article about it. Weapon dps is only AA damage now.

What I want to know (and that's nothing the article mentions) is how much of an upgrade a weapon actually is these days. If it's only AA and AA is for most specs ~10% of their damage, wouldn't a weapon often be less of an upgrade than a trinket?

[deenman]

I get the issue they wanted to adress with this,but it feels a bit weird knowing that your weapons damage doesnt actualy do anything...maybe instead of gutting the melee weapon thing,they could have added the weapon damage for casters to their spells also

its not like titanforge is even an issue these days,so the problem would be far less anyways

[Unlimited Power]

What I want to know (and that's nothing the article mentions) is how much of an upgrade a weapon actually is these days. If it's only AA and AA is for most specs ~10% of their damage, wouldn't a weapon often be less of an upgrade than a trinket?

Depends. I believe weapons still carry a significant amount of both primary and secondary stats to elevate their usefulness, and even at 5-10% of total damage output, AA damage is nothing to discount.

Furthermore, there's a big difference between stat budgets of 1H and 2H weapons which is part of the reason why TG vs SMF is hard to balance for fury warriors.

And how classes scale with trinkets also varies greatly. I'm sure some specific trinkets would actually sim as higher dps upgrades at the same ilvl vs weapons for some specs.

[Aydinx2]

What I want to know (and that's nothing the article mentions) is how much of an upgrade a weapon actually is these days. If it's only AA and AA is for most specs ~10% of their damage, wouldn't a weapon often be less of an upgrade than a trinket?

Weapons have massive amounts of Stam + Main stat

[Kagdar]

What I want to know (and that's nothing the article mentions) is how much of an upgrade a weapon actually is these days. If it's only AA and AA is for most specs ~10% of their damage, wouldn't a weapon often be less of an upgrade than a trinket?

As an example here are my stats weigth : read it like this : ex. each point in agi = 5.15 dps
Off Hand Weapon DPS 10.37, Agility 5.15, Mastery 3.09, Haste 2.96, Critical Strike 2.68, Versatility 2.48, Weapon DPS 17.71
My weapons are ilvl : 265 and 246. my highest has 28 more damage (+10 min dmg and +46 max damage) : 28*17.71 = 495.88 dps if both my weapons were equal ilvls. without the stats increase. (yes i wear my highest ilvl in OH because LL spec in m+)

[Segus1992]

Weapons have massive amounts of Stam + Main stat

Chest armor has equal stat budget to 2h weapons, so that definitely isn't enough of a reason (on its own) for weapons to be #1. Combined with AA damage increase sure, just seems strange especially when even 1h weapons are the biggest upgrade (with stat budgets equaling that of bracers).

As an example here are my stats weigth : read it like this : ex. each point in agi = 5.15 dps
Off Hand Weapon DPS 10.37, Agility 5.15, Mastery 3.09, Haste 2.96, Critical Strike 2.68, Versatility 2.48, Weapon DPS 17.71
My weapons are ilvl : 265 and 246. my highest has 28 more damage (+10 min dmg and +46 max damage) : 28*17.71 = 495.88 dps if both my weapons were equal ilvls. without the stats increase. (yes i wear my highest ilvl in OH because LL spec in m+)

You misunderstand the question, I'm not asking how to use stat weights, I'm asking why they are the way they are.

Depends. I believe weapons still carry a significant amount of both primary and secondary stats to elevate their usefulness, and even at 5-10% of total damage output, AA damage is nothing to discount.

Furthermore, there's a big difference between stat budgets of 1H and 2H weapons which is part of the reason why TG vs SMF is hard to balance for fury warriors.

And how classes scale with trinkets also varies greatly. I'm sure some specific trinkets would actually sim as higher dps upgrades at the same ilvl vs weapons for some specs.

I guess it makes sense with stats + the AA damage increase, just figured there was something I was missing.

[Advent]

As long as it is never good enough to be viable for end-game pve, sure. Otherwise, get it out of here please. No thanks.

[dewd]

unless there is difference in gameplay i could not care less. it would make gearing harder since noone could trade an agi 2h that isnt a polearm.