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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Jesus christ... then the doctor administering the test is incompetent, if it takes 4 years to diagnose...

    Edit: Are you bored? South-saharran defilingitis isnt a thing..
    Jesus fucking Christ you are dense.

  2. #242
    How much tea would you like?

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by unfilteredJW View Post
    Jesus fucking Christ you are dense.
    Maybe. Am I missing something?

  4. #244
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Maybe. Am I missing something?
    That psychiatric diagnoses are super difficult particularly if the patient is keeping symptoms, like their own explosively abusive behaviour towards their spouse, a secret from the psychiatrist.

    If Heard didn't want help with that (and someone with BPD probably wouldn't), she'd never raise it as a concern/symptom, and the psychiatrist could easily not ever have a clue.

    Really gotta wonder if you've ever seen a psychiatrist, because they're not magic and they pretty much have to rely almost entirely on what the patient describes as their symptoms.


  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That psychiatric diagnoses are super difficult particularly if the patient is keeping symptoms, like their own explosively abusive behaviour towards their spouse, a secret from the psychiatrist.

    If Heard didn't want help with that (and someone with BPD probably wouldn't), she'd never raise it as a concern/symptom, and the psychiatrist could easily not ever have a clue.

    Really gotta wonder if you've ever seen a psychiatrist, because they're not magic and they pretty much have to rely almost entirely on what the patient describes as their symptoms.
    My man, BPD is a serious disorder. Youd show signs and characteristics. And if its so easy to hide from psychiatrists for almost half a decade, what makes you believe someone interviewing her for less than 20 hours could accurately diagnose her? Your line of thought is inconsistent.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    My man, BPD is a serious disorder. Youd show signs and characteristics. And if its so easy to hide from psychiatrists for almost half a decade, what makes you believe someone interviewing her for less than 20 hours could accurately diagnose her? Your line of thought is inconsistent.
    Inconsistent and incompetent. Just like Heard's legal team!

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Jesus christ... then the doctor administering the test is incompetent, if it takes 4 years to diagnose...

    Edit: Are you bored? South-saharran defilingitis isnt a thing..
    It cracks me up you googled it xD

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Apparently you've never met a soldier, who's in fear for their career, and only divulges the bare minimum in therapy/counseling.
    Right, the soldier that can hide their disorder from psychiatrists for over 4 years, but suddenly reveals everything to a psychologist whos working for the person suing you. Makes sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    It cracks me up you googled it xD
    Glad to be of service.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    My man, BPD is a serious disorder. Youd show signs and characteristics. And if its so easy to hide from psychiatrists for almost half a decade, what makes you believe someone interviewing her for less than 20 hours could accurately diagnose her? Your line of thought is inconsistent.
    I mean...do you have much experience with mental health care? Because like...it's really not easy at all, and a huge portion of it relies on the patient being honest and working in good-faith with the therapist/psychologist/psychiatrist. I had mental health care for years when I was struggling with deep depression, and while the dude I was seeing (and eventually the psychiatrist as my therapist recommended medication) could get a vague initial diagnosis I was a pretty shitty patient and it took quite some time for a formal diagnosis of "major depressive disorder". Like, over a year.

    Not commenting on the actual "recent diagnosis" or whatever since I haven't followed this trial closely, but just saying that diagnosing mental health issues can be extremely difficult because in a therapy session, all the mental health professional has to go on is what the patient tells them. I can see it being different in a courtroom setting where the mental health profession has access to not just previous records/information, but a lot of additional context/information that the patient may not have revealed to their therapist etc.

  10. #250
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    My man, BPD is a serious disorder. Youd show signs and characteristics. And if its so easy to hide from psychiatrists for almost half a decade, what makes you believe someone interviewing her for less than 20 hours could accurately diagnose her? Your line of thought is inconsistent.
    It is that easy, especially when that psychiatrist works for you, rather than antagonistically.

    And I haven't said anything at all about whether she legitimately has BPD. I've been calling into question your position on the subject. I honestly don't follow the particulars of the case because I think both Heard and Depp were abusive, and the case here isn't even really about who's more abusive, it's about defamation, anyway.


  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Right, the soldier that can hide their disorder from psychiatrists for over 4 years, but suddenly reveals everything to a psychologist whos working for the person suing you. Makes sense.

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    Glad to be of service.
    You seem to mix up psychologist and psychiatrist. These are VERY different professions.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It is that easy, especially when that psychiatrist works for you, rather than antagonistically.
    Lmao, if you say so. We have 5 psychiatrists who says she doesnt have BPD, but one psychologists who says she does.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It is that easy, especially when that psychiatrist works for you, rather than antagonistically.

    And I haven't said anything at all about whether she legitimately has BPD. I've been calling into question your position on the subject. I honestly don't follow the particulars of the case because I think both Heard and Depp were abusive, and the case here isn't even really about who's more abusive, it's about defamation, anyway.
    Sadly it is about who was abusive, because in order for defamation to be the case, it has to be a lie, by definition.

  14. #254
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I mean...do you have much experience with mental health care? Because like...it's really not easy at all, and a huge portion of it relies on the patient being honest and working in good-faith with the therapist/psychologist/psychiatrist. I had mental health care for years when I was struggling with deep depression, and while the dude I was seeing (and eventually the psychiatrist as my therapist recommended medication) could get a vague initial diagnosis I was a pretty shitty patient and it took quite some time for a formal diagnosis of "major depressive disorder". Like, over a year.
    Yeah, like, when I went in for ADHD symptoms, I basically told the psychiatrist what I thought the problem was; ADHD. And it was still a 6-month process of honest exploration and a mountain of historical evidence that we had to process through before he was comfortable making that diagnosis, even though ADHD is a pretty "simple" one (in that it's fairly common and the symptoms are well-known if expressed fairly differently by different individuals).

    I can't even imagine how much more difficult it could be if you just knew something was wrong but didn't have the words to accurately describe what you were feeling.

    Plus, a lot of the diagnositic tools require honest self-appraisal. One of the things I talked to my shrink about while we were going through the process was how easy it would be to just say whatever I thought the test was looking for to confirm the diagnosis I wanted; I had no interest in that but it surprised me how easy it would be to be dishonest on those things, seeking a specific diagnosis (or trying to avoid one). It's not like the diagnostic criteria for things are hard to find.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Lmao, if you say so. We have 5 psychiatrists who says she doesnt have BPD, but one psychologists who says she does.
    Have any of those psychiatrists stated categorically that Heard does not have BPD? Or just that they did not diagnose her as having it?

    Because those two are not the same thing. And I'm gonna need you to serve up direct quotes on this.


  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Yeah, like, when I went in for ADHD symptoms, I basically told the psychiatrist what I thought the problem was; ADHD. And it was still a 6-month process of honest exploration and a mountain of historical evidence that we had to process through before he was comfortable making that diagnosis, even though ADHD is a pretty "simple" one (in that it's fairly common and the symptoms are well-known if expressed fairly differently by different individuals).

    I can't even imagine how much more difficult it could be if you just knew something was wrong but didn't have the words to accurately describe what you were feeling.

    Plus, a lot of the diagnositic tools require honest self-appraisal. One of the things I talked to my shrink about while we were going through the process was how easy it would be to just say whatever I thought the test was looking for to confirm the diagnosis I wanted; I had no interest in that but it surprised me how easy it would be to be dishonest on those things, seeking a specific diagnosis (or trying to avoid one). It's not like the diagnostic criteria for things are hard to find.
    But just like ADHD, with BPD youd show signs and characteristics. Its misleading to suggest that therapists ONLY rely on honest input from the patient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Have any of those psychiatrists stated categorically that Heard does not have BPD? Or just that they did not diagnose her as having it?

    Because those two are not the same thing. And I'm gonna need you to serve up direct quotes on this.
    Sure, they said did not diagnose her with BPD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    And I haven't said anything at all about whether she legitimately has BPD. I've been calling into question your position on the subject
    For clarity, what position do you think Im taking?

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    But just like ADHD, with BPD youd show signs and characteristics. Its misleading to suggest that therapists ONLY rely on honest input from the patient.

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    Sure, they said did not diagnose her with BPD.
    Yes, you’d show signs and characteristics with BPD. The fact you show those signs is pretty much the definition of any disorder, that’s true.

    But there’s really 4 things that complicate things here.

    1) signs/symptoms are not exclusive to singular disorders. Therapists can struggle for a LONG time figuring out which (if any) disorder belongs to your symptoms.

    2) In order for it to be classified as a disorder, it also needs to be shown to have a clear negative impact on your life. it may be that the psychologist at the time did not consider that bar cleared yet.

    3) etymology (fancy word for cause) of the disorder. In order for personality disorders to be qualified, a psychologist has to rule out other possible causes.

    4) labels don’t always serve your client. If a therapist anticipates their client to have a bad reaction to being labeled with a personality disorder, they can opt to treat the symptoms without labeling the underlying disorder.

  17. #257
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    But just like ADHD, with BPD youd show signs and characteristics. Its misleading to suggest that therapists ONLY rely on honest input from the patient.
    Without honest input to my psychiatrist, there was zero evidence of my ADHD.

    Sure, they said did not diagnose her with BPD.
    Thanks for retracting your prior claim, then, and admitting that those psychiatrists didn't claim she did not have BPD.


  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    Yes, you’d show signs and characteristics with BPD. The fact you show those signs is pretty much the definition of any disorder, that’s true.

    But there’s really 4 things that complicate things here.

    1) signs/symptoms are not exclusive to singular disorders. Therapists can struggle for a LONG time figuring out which (if any) disorder belongs to your symptoms.

    2) In order for it to be classified as a disorder, it also needs to be shown to have a clear negative impact on your life. it may be that the psychologist at the time did not consider that bar cleared yet.

    3) etymology (fancy word for cause) of the disorder. In order for personality disorders to be qualified, a psychologist has to rule out other possible causes.

    4) labels don’t always serve your client. If a therapist anticipates their client to have a bad reaction to being labeled with a personality disorder, they can opt to treat the symptoms without labeling the underlying disorder.
    But we all accept a psychologist with less than 20 hours of work with Amber could accurately make that determination?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Without honest input to my psychiatrist, there was zero evidence of my ADHD.
    I highly doubt that.

  19. #259
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    But we all accept a psychologist with less than 20 hours of work with Amber could accurately make that determination?
    The 6 months of bi-weekly sessions I mentioned in my own diagnosis boils down to about 12 1-hour sessions over that period. 20 hours of work with a patient is a lot.

    I highly doubt that.
    Then you have no idea what you're talking about.

    The diagnostic criteria was entirely based on my own descriptions of my own inner experience, my descriptions of my difficulties with certain tasks and conditions, my provision of my own scholastic records showing a consistent childhood history, and so on.

    Without my honest contributions, the psychiatrist would have nothing.


  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    But we all accept a psychologist with less than 20 hours of work with Amber could accurately make that determination?
    From what little I've gleaned reading up on this...it's hardly "bulletproof", but it's absolutely reasonable that with far more information available to the psychologist (or were they a psychiatrist? it does matter a bit) than she may have provided over 4 years to her therapist/psychiatrist, that they would very well be able to make a more confident diagnosis in a shorter period of time.

    If someone spends 4 years lying/not being honest (there is a difference) to their therapist, they're not going to get anywhere and the therapist isn't going to be able to effectively provide treatment or diagnose any problems.

    This is literally the case throughout healthcare. If you are lying to your health care provide or providing incomplete information, they may struggle to figure out what's wrong, especially if they can't rely on diagnostic tests and require your honest input.

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