If they bring Master Loot, it should be available only in guilds

[Revamp Man]

Then PL should be improved. ML is most guilds = Loot Council and thats where the toxicity comes from. PL is simple in the fact that most loot is just distributed automatically without any drama.

remove the PL restrictions and make ML guild only

revert it to how it was in legion so people can choose
i dont wanna worry about loot leave taht to the raid lead while the other 99% of the raid can continue killing stuff

[Niwes]

To avoid any problems in pugs.

ofc. what do you think? just go back to the old times, when they removed it for a reason?

i mean, whats that for a topic??? thats ofc no question. everyone and his grandma asking for ML for guilds only, since the day they removed it everywhere.

and even in 2029 noone will get why they switched the complete thing from ML to PL everywhere, instead of implementing PL in the specific corners where it was/is needed.

we NEED PL. everyone knows that. noone wanna be ninja‘ed or gimped. but solely the ppl that know and trust each other are ofc fucked by PL. thats why these ppl ask for ML in their corner. not everywhere ofc.

again: whats that for a topic???

[snugglestheogre]

ion told bald man it was engine tech issue. maybe reason its not in not simple as they dont want master loot. pl has good reason to exist. shouldnt go away. ml is needed some places too tho.

[huth]

ML is my preference because it leads to less wasted loot
currently they have so many restrictions when it comes to loot simply because little jimmy might have a bad time if he gets asked to trade loot

ML just makes everything so much simpler
kill boss
4 items
people roll
people get items

What are you talking about? ML always took longer than Personal simply because you had to decide who gets what first and somebody had to stay at the boss to do that.

It also inherently had more wasted loot because you could get drops that nobody in the group could even use, nevermind whether anybody would want to.

[RobertMugabe]

It doesn't have to be restricted to only guilds, but it would be nice if you know on before hand if Master Loot is active. So that you can go into the LFD/LFR queue with an extra filter where you can decide if you accepts groups where Master Loot is active or not. This leaves the choice with the player and you are not forced by Party/Raid Leader to 'accept' it.

It absolutely has to be restricted to guilds as it will not simply work in the pug world and we will get all the issues back that we had.

Back in WoD when you had this choice, 99% of all pugs would run with master looter, why? Because players that can choose the raids (tanks, highly sought after specs etc.) they want to join will obviously pick one where they can tell the RL to reserve an item for them or else they will look elsewhere (and most of the time the RL will also reserve items for themselves). I do very well remember this being an absolutely massive issue back then, especially as someone who has been a pug RL many times, seeing pugs fail to fill up with full dps slots, but 0 tanks.

And then you have things like GDKP etc etc.

There were also so many issues with ninjas and toxicity in general.

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Why not just keep personal, but also bring back Justice Tokens from WotLK? That way players who get unlucky can target specific pieces/items instead of forcing ML and having to rely on their GM being merciful with drops.

Emblems gave different loot than what you'd get in raids. In Wrath in order to get your BiS you would need to both buy emblem gear AND get items from raids.

[Revamp Man]

What are you talking about? ML always took longer than Personal simply because you had to decide who gets what first and somebody had to stay at the boss to do that.

It also inherently had more wasted loot because you could get drops that nobody in the group could even use, nevermind whether anybody would want to.

one person out of the entire group because once it was assigned it just went to their bags instead of trades mid trash

as for wasted loot i dont remember getting weapons that drop that would be BiS for a player but you couldnt trade it because you dont have the same kind of weapon at a higher ilvl

[Belloc]

Retail mythic raids aren't easy to just gather few uncoordinated people and do them, at least not the first few months.

You are a pure example of classic andy who thinks retail is easy

Classic andy, eh? Yeah, no, I've never touched a classic realm. They're nowhere close to the original expansion experience. I get my nostalgia kicks elsewhere.

And, though I no longer play WoW, yeah, I do think retail is easy. Because I'm good at WoW. When I actually played the game, my raids (yes, my raids) succeeded. I never had trouble clearing a heroic (before Mythic was a thing) raid when I had a good group of players to lead. No, we weren't top-100, but we were always solid, and I liked it when, during our downtime, we could host GDKP runs. Rag mounts were big money, back in the day :P So, thank you very much, I'm going to support master loot as a viable option, so long as it's chosen (and locked in) at the start of a run. Don't like it? Don't care.

[KyleEverett]

I'm on the side that PL just works better long term. I'm open to Master Looting coming back only if it's 100% guild runs. 1 pug outside the guild? Back to PL. Also so long as it carries all the old risks. Get an agi dagger and your only rogue is combat? Get a shield when your tanks are BrM and DK and your healers are priests and druids? Tough, you wanted master loot.

[Revamp Man]

I'm on the side that PL just works better long term. I'm open to Master Looting coming back only if it's 100% guild runs. 1 pug outside the guild? Back to PL. Also so long as it carries all the old risks. Get an agi dagger and your only rogue is combat? Get a shield when your tanks are BrM and DK and your healers are priests and druids? Tough, you wanted master loot.

legion system was perfectly fine but in bfa (and nobody can convince me otherwise) they became obsessed with slowing players gear progression down

[Relapses]

I mean, considering this is exactly how it worked in Legion before they forced PL, I'd say this is how it'll end up playing out if it were to return.

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legion system was perfectly fine but in bfa (and nobody can convince me otherwise) they became obsessed with slowing players gear progression down

...what? BfA was the expansion where the final season of M+ dropped better gear than Heroic and you could get Mythic-quality gear from solo content. What game were you playing?

[dragonflight10]

Classic andy, eh? Yeah, no, I've never touched a classic realm. They're nowhere close to the original expansion experience. I get my nostalgia kicks elsewhere.

And, though I no longer play WoW, yeah, I do think retail is easy. Because I'm good at WoW. When I actually played the game, my raids (yes, my raids) succeeded. I never had trouble clearing a heroic (before Mythic was a thing) raid when I had a good group of players to lead. No, we weren't top-100, but we were always solid, and I liked it when, during our downtime, we could host GDKP runs. Rag mounts were big money, back in the day :P So, thank you very much, I'm going to support master loot as a viable option, so long as it's chosen (and locked in) at the start of a run. Don't like it? Don't care.

In what way you thought i am not a supporter of ML ? i support it

[munkeyinorbit]

This never happened after WoD, and even then, it was an extremely rare occurance. In Legion, was impossible to enable ML unless x amount of people in the raid were in the same guild. Don't remember the exact number, but it was something like 90%. It was literally not possible to have ML in pugs...


The only reason why ML was removed, was entitled Trials who wanted to have the same prio on the big ticket items as the core raiders in a new guild they joined. This is ignoring the fact that Trials were usually SHOWERED with gear that everybody else didn't need, so a fresh Trial would always get the most gear in the entire guild during the test period. It was only the big ticked items like Trinkets and Weapons that they didn't have access to.

The removal of ML was a textbook definition of listening to the vocal minority who felt they were entitled to all the loot in the world. The funniest part is that gearing up as a fresh Trial in a new guild is WAY SLOWER (on average) now with PL than with the old ML system.

Your comment is a textbook example of ignoring facts.

Fact. Trials are entitled to the same opportunity for gear as anyone else

Fact. Trials contribute to the kill as well.

Fact. Without trials a guild could be killing zero bosses.

This bullshit entitlement that officers have is why people are always leaving their guild. Not pErSoNaL lOoT.

[Revamp Man]

I mean, considering this is exactly how it worked in Legion before they forced PL, I'd say this is how it'll end up playing out if it were to return.

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...what? BfA was the expansion where the final season of M+ dropped better gear than Heroic and you could get Mythic-quality gear from solo content. What game were you playing?

in bfa launch they
forced personal loot
made azerite gear a CHANCE from the chest even though during 99% of the testing phase it was bonus loot in it
nerfed titanforging and warforging while also nerfing chance at a gem slot on gear
limited azerite sources compared to artifact power
removed the biweekly raid gear missions

then in 8.1 while they did add in residuum they added more item trading restrictions

8.2 they had the mana pearl gear which was so powerful you would wear it over mythic gear

8.3 there was no longer TF but there was corruption so you would be unable to equip some broken gear until you did around 5 weeks worth of visions

yes they did eventually speed up gear acquisition by the final patch but until then you had to go beyond extra just to progress in terms of gear compared to Legion

[munkeyinorbit]

That's why you could easily force pugs to choose a loot system when forming in lfg, then it locked the group to said loot system.

Like I said in the beginning there are several solutions if one only thinks about the problem for a little bit. But in any case there is 0 reason to not bring back ML, if only for guild groups and not pugs.

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Sure guy whatever you say

Guild leaders abuse the system. There. There's a reason.

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Retail mythic raids aren't easy to just gather few uncoordinated people and do them, at least not the first few months.

You are a pure example of classic andy who thinks retail is easy

OK, Hardcore Harry. Let's make ML only for the top 2% who identify as Mythic Raiders. Fuck everyone else.

[Revamp Man]

Your comment is a textbook example of ignoring facts.

Fact. Trials are entitled to the same opportunity for gear as anyone else

Fact. Trials contribute to the kill as well.

Fact. Without trials a guild could be killing zero bosses.

This bullshit entitlement that officers have is why people are always leaving their guild. Not pErSoNaL lOoT.

facts: trials got tons of loot from farm bosses

facts: the trial that died 30 seconds into the fight on their 5th pull of a 80 pull boss is not entitled to anything

facts: 90% of the ninja loot stories that appeared when the change was announced were debunked in the same threads by people from those guilds and no guild worth their salt would choose to not gear trials

[Sinaa]

I never understood the general obsession over loot control. Blizzard have compensated for ML away, we've been getting the same or more gear. I understand why Limit or Echo would want it, but outside of that it seems a meaningless thing. With ML coming back I cannot help, but think that the loud minority won, huzzah.

[lordjust]

I never understood the general obsession over loot control. Blizzard have compensated for ML away, we've been getting the same or more gear. I understand why Limit or Echo would want it, but outside of that it seems a meaningless thing. With ML coming back I cannot help, but think that the loud minority won, huzzah.

It isn't about loot control for me but worthless drops. Like in the current patch everyone has 2 legendaries so 2 slots with dead loot. I get a belt and I can't trade it because the legendary doesn't count towards the ilvl unlock. So the only thing I can do is put it on, put back my legendary and then sell the belt instead of giving it to another raid member who crafted his legendary in wrist and could actually use the belt.

Blizzard admitted that it's one of the problems they want to fix but they don't want to just remove the ilvl requirement from personal loot because that would make split run farming too effective. So in their opinion there have to be drawbacks to personal loot (have the ilvl requirement) and to master loot (get drops that no one can use like a bow drop in a group with no hunters). I don't understand why there have to be draw backs as in make the system a little bit of shit bur fair enough if that's their stance.

[Relapses]

It isn't about loot control for me but worthless drops. Like in the current patch everyone has 2 legendaries so 2 slots with dead loot. I get a belt and I can't trade it because the legendary doesn't count towards the ilvl unlock. So the only thing I can do is put it on, put back my legendary and then sell the belt instead of giving it to another raid member who crafted his legendary in wrist and could actually use the belt.

Blizzard admitted that it's one of the problems they want to fix but they don't want to just remove the ilvl requirement from personal loot because that would make split run farming too effective. So in their opinion there have to be drawbacks to personal loot (have the ilvl requirement) and to master loot (get drops that no one can use like a bow drop in a group with no hunters). I don't understand why there have to be draw backs as in make the system a little bit of shit bur fair enough if that's their stance.

Both systems have advantages and disadvantages. People who prefer PL will always have an antagonistic view of ML because they can point to specific interactions from ML where they were robbed. Fans of ML will conversely point to situations in PL where having ML would have eased progression or help get gear in the right places. Even though I'm very much in support of ML, I can see both sides. I'll say personally that in a world where Tier sets are returning I'd much prefer ML to be back on the table but I can (probably, begrudgingly) live without it if the devs ultimately decide not to re-implement it.

[huth]

one person out of the entire group because once it was assigned it just went to their bags instead of trades mid trash

as for wasted loot i dont remember getting weapons that drop that would be BiS for a player but you couldnt trade it because you dont have the same kind of weapon at a higher ilvl

Wrong. Everybody who wants loot and the lootmaster because assigning loot has limited range. And you apparently forgot about getting a bow in a raid with no hunter.

[huth]

Yeah , sure okay. Better not have weakaureas in the game some ppl abuse it and make others mail all their gold'. Better not have raid chat either I've heard of people abusing chat and being mean to others!

Well, those would be good arguments not to introduce them. The problem is they're already there.