Raid Rewards Experiments in Season 4

[Lilixer]

I’m leaving out that part of the argument because I have literally already told you this 3 times but fuck it let’s do it a fourth time and maybe it will stick this time.

The gear inside the system doesn’t make the system. You can take tier gear out of the badge system and it’s still the badge system. You can put all the same items from this system into the badge system and guess what? It’s still the badge system.

So once AGAIN the only difference in the systems you are offering that makes it so much different is that it’s slower…. Also bud they have updated on how fast it is, they say you get your three pieces in 6 weeks. If all you did was raid in wotlk at about 30ish badges per week from raiding and most items costing 60 that adds up to…. Let’s see…. 6 weeks for 3 items lol. Weird.

I never said the badge system was perfect, but I do think it’s better.

Since you don’t seem like a person who can remember what someone else said, let alone what YOU said, I’ll have to go back to my original post to remind you about what I said.

I was making fun of the fact that they will do anything to make a ‘brand new system’ in order to say it’s new when all it is is just a more complicated, extra stepped badge system. I’m not saying this new system is god awful because I’m saying it’s literally the same thing, but more complicated. How many god damn times do I have to repeat that in order for you to get it. Do I need to have a para-educator in the room to walk you through reading?



Then why in gods name are you even posting? Because that’s all I said.

You and kamuimac are actual trolls and clearly do not take on other peoples considerations.

This system is better, end of.

[Royru]

You and kamuimac are actual trolls and clearly do not take on other peoples considerations.

This system is better, end of.

Oh is that so? I guess it is then lol. I mean I love the badge system but the cherry on top is adding a quest as a middle man lol

[Azadina]

The 3 dinnar thing has a flaw. Classes that don't dual wield can get a weapon and 2 trinkets, but the ones that do can only get 1 trinket.
Therefore i suggest 1h weapons be sold in a pair in the vendor or they will be at a disadvantage.

That, or make 2h weapons cost two coins. Either or.

[Relapses]

I'm not even going to bother addressing your insistence that I'm not reading or addressing your posts. You're the one throwing out claims of reading comprehension and in general being a complete dick about your "right" opinion, I just had a laugh at the people who want to write WotLK fanfiction every time Blizzard adds a system that vaguely resembles something from this expansion.

So once AGAIN the only difference in the systems you are offering that makes it so much different is that it’s slower…. Also bud they have updated on how fast it is, they say you get your three pieces in 6 weeks. If all you did was raid in wotlk at about 30ish badges per week from raiding and most items costing 60 that adds up to…. Let’s see…. 6 weeks for 3 items lol. Weird.

I already addressed this in the post you quoted but it's important to note that the maximum weekly through Emblems of Frost was 90-something, meaning you could no-life it and get three times the gear as you could in this system. That's, again, not a good thing for the reasons I've already outlined in my other posts.

Finally, as to why I bother posting, I don't know man. My fanclub over at 4Chan uses my PFP as a meme so maybe I'm just giving my fans what they want. :^)

[rhorle]

It's very easy to compare when they implement a system that is essentially the exact same thing as badges, except with a ton of extra steps and way more complicated.

Wouldn't upgrading gear be more like Valor then badges? You know the valor that allowed us to upgrade gear in MoP. The 3 items from boss as it is just bad luck protection that kicks in after 30, 20, and 10 kills. Both systems are functionally different. WotLK badges you farmed enough badges for gear. Season 4 you kill bosses for 3 items and can upgrade the rest by farming for points to upgrade. Upgrading is different from buying an item.

The only similarity is that there is a "currency" that needs to be collected. But that seems a strange hill to make such a big fuss over.

[Thelxi]

Did you want things to never evolve from Vanilla or something? Like what kind of nonsense is this.

Might want to work on that reading comprehension there dude.

[relaxok]

it’s funny you never heard the top raiding guilds complaining about needing vendors and bad luck protection, just using master loot and you get what you get.. seemed like a good system to me..

[lordjust]

You’re literally shopping for loot with this system too wtf

Edit: also imagine having this mentality

Scenario 1: raider is required to raid to get gear, he raids for 3 months, he gets half lucky and get half his gear but still hasn’t gotten a few pieces.

Scenario 2: raider is required to raid to get gear, he raids for 3 months, he got enough badges to get the gear he was missing on top of the gear he got from raiding.

“OMG IMAGINE JUST SHOPPING FOR YOUR GEAR”

You’re doing the exact same thing for the exact same gear. One is just guaranteed so you don’t have to pray to the video game gods that your time was worth putting into the game? I mean idk I prefer to let my video games reward me for my time and not just hope for the best.

But you're doing it only for trinkets and weapons. There's still the chance that you'll be missing pieces. What this new system is doing is give you the option to buy your bis weapon and trinkets in the first 6 weeks. That brings some inbalance into the game from the get go because if you play for example arms, only need one weapon you can buy your 2 bis trinkets. If you play fury you have to choose if you want to buy 2 trinkets + 1 weapon or 2 weapons and 1 trinket.

From what was datamined you'll need something like 20 shards or so to upgrade 1 item and people suggest that each boss will drop 2-3 shards so you can probably upgrade 1 item each week for a full clear. So once you can buy the items you'll most likely will have enough shards to upgrade them to the version you're currently running.

What I don't like about the system is that it encourages to run all difficulties each week because you can upgrade every item with the fated affix to a higher quality. So I could get an item from LFR (LFR gets fated items and count toward the quest) and use the mythic shard item to upgrade it to mythic quality (item on PTR only says upgrades fated item to mythic quality, so should work an lfr and normal items also). So to min-max you run mythic and m+ to unlock the highest ilvl and then run heroic, normal and lfr for more loot chances and trade gear to people so that they can upgrade the items.

The old badge or VP system were better in my opinion because there were more item to buy and combined with the crafted items you could get almost a full set from boe+badge/VP+crafting. Also you weren't encouraged to farm all difficulties to fish for items to upgrade. You ran higher difficulty you got more VP and could buy the more expensive items or the cheaper items faster.

[Playintrafic]

this system offers exackly 0 gear progression for casual players.

another system benefit 1 % and alienating 99 % .

If you can't clear a raid on LFR, then you don't need gear anyways. You can do Daily/World quests in Greens, and don't even need level cap gear to run Old Raids/Dungeons for mog/pets/mounts/achievments.

I have several level 50 alts in heirlooms that have ZERO difficulty clearing everything up to legion heroic raids. Mythic is somewhat hard at 50, but at 60, even with just 226 ilvl they aren't impossible.

Plenty of stuff for casuals to do in the game.

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farm 1,000 M0s for badges t

You never could do anything remotely similar to this.

There was always a weekly and daily cap per character to Badges and VP.

In wrath you got 2 Current tier badges per day, and IIRC 2 per boss kill in the current raid, and 2 per kill of the newest VoA boss. There was a hard cap of getting about 1 piece of gear per week, and a few extra badges, it seems like if you got max badges per week, you could get 4 piece tier and 1 more item from badges in 4 weeks. Or around 5 pieces of armor per 4 weeks. Even then it was normal 10 man level loot. Considering you still had HC/HM 10, 25, and HC/HM 25 level loot as upgrades, you could not potentially get geared out just from badges. Badges were just a deterministic way to eventually buy something.

5 weeks in and you only got 2 tier drops, and no trinkets.... Well good, you probably have 4 piece tier, a good cloak, a sub optimal trinket thats still better than the shit you could get from dungeons, an maybe some bracers or something.

Current method is, I have killed Jailer on my DH and am 10/11 Heroic, and I still have a fucking green sword, 236 ring because it rolled a socket and thus is simming 1-3% higher than other ring I have gotten, oh and a Death Knight DPS Sword. Yeah, I am literally using a DK's rejected loot which doesn't even have stats on it for me, because I can't do anything about it.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

wait so you being able to spend couple of months farming literaly 3 items of your choosing from raid is what will save raiding and make people resub to game ?

like are you for real ?

im not trying to offend you just honestly would like to know the think process that went behind this post of yours.

Its not my job to save the game. Its my job to enjoy it. Is something more enjoyable than absolutely nothing? Gotta say something is better than nothing. Pretty confusing how that is difficult to put together. Not sure why it has to be so black and white with you. That it is ether the ultimate savior or the absolute trash. Nothing between. Very strange way to view everything.

[Unlimited Power]

Wonder if the legendary bow from Sylvanas will be on the vendor. I'm guessing not, but I could be wrong.

Since you can progress the fated quests in LFR, I'd definitely start clearing LFR on my hunter alt for a chance at the bow.

[Lady Atia]

Honestly this looks really good! I wasn't a fan of the way CN handled weapon tokens but this is the best of two worlds - bosses still drop their unique lore artifacts but you can also buy them off from the brokers. Can't wait to farm my missing transmogs via alts on lfr/normal difficulty!


Now please, make the fated gear having the missing mythic effects on shoulders/hands/waist slots. Would give transmog collectors also another reason to do the fated raids.

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Wonder if the legendary bow from Sylvanas will be on the vendor. I'm guessing not, but I could be wrong.

Since you can progress the fated quests in LFR, I'd definitely start clearing LFR on my hunter alt for a chance at the bow.

Right now the bow is sadly not on the vendor.

[Lady Atia]

Oh yeah this will surely bring the casuals who left back to the game, oh wait they don't do premade group content..

You can get up to 3 normal items via lfr/world bosses?

[Relapses]

Oh yeah this will surely bring the casuals who left back to the game, oh wait they don't do premade group content..

Why does everything that Blizzard adds to the game have to die on the throne of "bringing the casuals back"? This is clearly not intended to bring anybody back to the game. It's a loot change aimed directly at the audience of the game that's currently raiding.

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If you can't clear a raid on LFR, then you don't need gear anyways. You can do Daily/World quests in Greens, and don't even need level cap gear to run Old Raids/Dungeons for mog/pets/mounts/achievments.

I have several level 50 alts in heirlooms that have ZERO difficulty clearing everything up to legion heroic raids. Mythic is somewhat hard at 50, but at 60, even with just 226 ilvl they aren't impossible.

Plenty of stuff for casuals to do in the game.

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You never could do anything remotely similar to this.

There was always a weekly and daily cap per character to Badges and VP.

In wrath you got 2 Current tier badges per day, and IIRC 2 per boss kill in the current raid, and 2 per kill of the newest VoA boss. There was a hard cap of getting about 1 piece of gear per week, and a few extra badges, it seems like if you got max badges per week, you could get 4 piece tier and 1 more item from badges in 4 weeks. Or around 5 pieces of armor per 4 weeks. Even then it was normal 10 man level loot. Considering you still had HC/HM 10, 25, and HC/HM 25 level loot as upgrades, you could not potentially get geared out just from badges. Badges were just a deterministic way to eventually buy something.

5 weeks in and you only got 2 tier drops, and no trinkets.... Well good, you probably have 4 piece tier, a good cloak, a sub optimal trinket thats still better than the shit you could get from dungeons, an maybe some bracers or something.

Current method is, I have killed Jailer on my DH and am 10/11 Heroic, and I still have a fucking green sword, 236 ring because it rolled a socket and thus is simming 1-3% higher than other ring I have gotten, oh and a Death Knight DPS Sword. Yeah, I am literally using a DK's rejected loot which doesn't even have stats on it for me, because I can't do anything about it.

With all due respect, an extreme situation like yours is precisely what this system is aimed to help prevent. And as I said in a few posts ago the example I used was referring mainly to the non-Frost badges, which were very frequently farmed because the game didn't have M+ as a universal catch-up tool. The main thing I wanted to point out is that the design philosophy has obviously changed since Wrath and the developers are extremely cognizant of the degenerate tendencies of their playerbase.

[Nymrohd]

You think casual players will resubscribe to the game for that!?

Well the question really is, what does a player who doesn't want to do non-matchmaking group content want? There is a progression path through LFR here, it will drop better gear than the Cypher gear, plus 3 normal items from coins and any number of possible items from world bosses (though that is a bit problematic, some armor types have much better variety and better slots than others).

If you are a collector, there is almost always something to do in the game. Zereth Mortis' protoform grind remains insanely long so you can keep working on that. Barring that and provided you've already collected everything you want from Shadowlands, you can always work on the Mage Tower, on alts and ofc you can use the opportunity to get a much higher ilvl and tier that is provided in this patch to do a lot more old content solo.

And let's not talk about casuals players. Casual players absolutely can PuG normal (and fate normal) raids or do lower level M+. People just look at ilvl for that and you can get a decent ilvl fast.

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This does seem like a very solid system. It reduces RNG but not by a massive amount and for the most crucial slots. It provides a solid incentive to do LFR, something that has been lacking since Legion.

I think it would be cool if you could buy the legendary bow if you spent all three coins on it. And perhaps 2h weapons should cost two. Plus a few other items perhaps should be added (e.g. if they would not add the legendary bow, they could add the cloak/quiver from Sylvanas (and the Anduin rings perhaps)

[LordVargK]

So, raid gear will still be meaningless if you're not able to raid mythic, since +15 gear will still be strictly superior. This 20 shards to upgrade system is meaningless, since most guilds are not able to run mythic either way, so they will never see those shards.

I still don't get why raid gear is not upgraded in the great vault like m+ gear is.

[loras]

It's a bit rough IMO.
Drop the kill counts on the tokens, make the shards for upgrades drop at the lower difficulty. Normal drops heroic, heroic drops mythic. H for H and M for M isn't really helping anyone prog. Give mythic a 1.5x multiplier on the drops to keep it worth it.

This, really.
Though imo they should axe at least one difficulty, rerunning the same thing 3 to 4 times is pretty insane.

[Cazze]

How can anyone dislike this? This is basically bad luck protection for the most important gear slots, with no downsides. What is not to like?

[Lurker1]

How can anyone dislike this? This is basically bad luck protection for the most inportant gear slots, with no downsides. What is not to like?

no clue i just hope this comes out faster next expansion last patch is very late imho for this almost pointless.

[Unlimited Power]

I think it would be cool if you could buy the legendary bow if you spent all three coins on it. And perhaps 2h weapons should cost two. Plus a few other items perhaps should be added (e.g. if they would not add the legendary bow, they could add the cloak/quiver from Sylvanas (and the Anduin rings perhaps)

I think that'd be a good compromise. You sacrifice some potential BiS trinkets for a guaranteed BiS weapon. Though it would obviously screw over fury, whom I'd imagine would want both the weapon from Jailor and KT.

And wholly agreed on the cloak+rings being added to vendor. If the bow costed 3 coins, that'd further complicate the choice for hunters.