Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness

[MrLachyG]

Because I want to see general opinion and what scores people are giving it? I expect people to have some basic decency, and to follow forum rules, and use spoiler tags on movie details when it's been out for all of about a day. I do suppose decency and maturity are asking a bit much for MMO-C, tbf.

I agree that they should use spoiler tags but yeah it’s always a risk that they don’t. Hell there was one person who did use them but mistyped the first ‘spoiler’ so it didn’t work properly. There are other ways of seeing opinions which are spoiler free, spoiler free reviews are the best way

[Fencers]

The fact you think it is at all going out of someone's way to not be a dick kinda proves my point about how silly it was to expect decency on this website. This sub-forum is particularly egregious when it comes to how posters behave.

I didn't say anything about RT or IMDB. I specifically said general opinion, as in what people here thought of the movie, without having the movie spoiled. There are no warnings about spoilers. Expecting people to simply use basic spoiler tags the day a movie is released is just common sense.

There really is no rule about spoilers other than revealing information that is adapted or leaked ahead of release.

9. Spoilers If you have information from say a book (Or any other source) a movie or TV show is being adapted from you need to use spoiler tags. Same thing if you have found reliable leaks online. Do not ruin other's excitement when we have a system in place to deal with this. Otherwise spoiler tags are not required, regardless of how a topic is titled. You should be able to discuss the most recent events that have aired or been released without needing to use spoiler tags. If you want to discuss spoilers, use the tags.

Opening weekend has long been THE standard of US film and the opening box office is likewise the paramount indicator of commercial success. The expectation in the US media is that interested parties make the effort to see new media day of. There is a whole cottage industry around this phenomenon.

Of course, films might not match up with one's individual schedule but no one else can really help with that except yourself. Also, not everyone agrees on what is a spoiler or even on total ignorance of the media product.

I knew the entire synopsis of Doctor Strange & the Multiverse of Madness just from following industry business news in general. Or even a trailer. if I said Scarlet Witch was in this film- despite numerous advertisements and news on the case, maybe Joe thinks that is a spoiler. I wouldn't however and think that is willful ignorance.

Really, if you want to go in totally blind- you can't expect others wanting to discuss something to have the same rules and criteria as yourself for a film.

[bmjclark]

I really liked it. There were some silly moments like Chavez magically having her powers work after a little pep talk but still good. I didn't expect Wanda to be evil out the gate based on the trailers tbh. I thought either we were going to get an evil Wanda variant or Wanda might of turned evil part way through or something. It also felt like the movie was missing an iron man variant tbh. Even ignoring the Tom Cruise Iron Man "leaks". Are we supposed to assume that Reed Richards built those Ultron robots? I also wish we had of gotten to see more alternate universes but I guess that might of been a bit much for a 2 hour movie

[Gumble]

Just got back from seeing it with friends.

It was mediocre at best. The visuals were interesting and Cumberbatch's acting is quite good, but the script is horrible and they show so much and do so little with it.

I predicted (with trying to avoid spoilers like this thread) that Wanda would be a villain but be treated like we were supposed to feel bad for her, Dr Strange would make idiotic decisions that someone as smart as him would never make in order for the crappy plot to happen, and insanely overly strong female protagonist would save the day when Dr Strange tells her that she has all the power she ever needs in her all along (Captain Marvel style).

I turned out to be pretty close.

Not once did anyone in the theater make a sound of joy. It was a bunch of "what the heck was that nonsense" reactions. They introduced so many characters and variants of characters we know but never gave us time to get to know or care about any of them. America had zero development and was essentially a mcguffin the entire movie until she Captain Marveled her way through the most overpowered character in the Marvel universe..... cause that's what the script said she had to do.

The ending sucked, the after credits was horrible, and we left the theater dreading what they are going to do to Thor next.


2/10 at best for overall score, 4/10 for the visuals. Don't take your kids, they won't understand any of it and it will scare them if they are young enough.

[Ophenia]

Was a bit shorter then I expected, but was very much a Raimi movie through and through which was very groovy.

I’m pretty sure I had read the runtime for that was like 2h30+ somewhere, I was a bit surprised that it lasted only 2 hours. Did I dream reading that, or did they cut like 20% of the movie once again (you wanna see the rest ? Buy the blu ray !!!) ?

[Ihavewaffles]

I still don't understand where chavez mcguffin came from, and mutant powers are so random, why would anyone just...get multiverse-portal powers, n it be shaped...like a star? lulz!?

[Ophenia]

I still don't understand where chavez mcguffin came from, and mutant powers are so random, why would anyone just...get multiverse-portal powers, n it be shaped...like a star? lulz!?

The star seemed to be an important symbol on her homeworld (her moms had the star symbol on their shirt), so that makes sense that something she creates out of her emotions has this shape.

Plus I won't complain because the visuals every time she created the portals were insane, probably the best part of the movie imo (which is a bit sad though as I loved Strange and Wanda before that movie, rofl)

--

Okay so for the things that I disliked on my part (everything in spoiler tags in case) :
- No Photon, no Vision.
- Lack of continuity : the TVA apparently doesn't exist anymore as it appears the snap never happened in the other universe and events are pretty much different all around, yet none of the very different universes were removed (the Thanos attack in the other universe should have occurred at a time the TVA was still functional). Event from The Eternals are never referenced despite being pretty big, so I suppose its box-office failure means it's non-cannon. I expected Shang Chi to quickly appear in Kamar Taj's defense, I suppose same thing as for Eternals, even though Wong's new fighting style seems inspired from Shang Chi's sister's martial art that I forgot the name of.
- Universe's "most intelligent man" just gives Wanda insight about Blackbolt's superpower, just what she needed to neutralize him. Thanks smart guy
- Illuminatis watched Blackbolt die and Mr Fantastic being spaghettied without trying to intervene. Okay then.
- Huge deception when Charles explained their Strange's backstory, I expected some flashback about Thanos' assault. That would have been lit to see another version of the battle of Titan, given it was one of the best scenes in Infinity War.
- Wanda and Strange were interesting characters until that movie, at which point they become one-dimensional (Wanda from the beginning, and Strange from the last seconds of the movie + mid-credits scene).
- The Charles v Wanda v Scarlet scene could have led to something interesting, but yet we don't see "our Wanda" anymore, neither her struggle against Scarlet. Too bad, that could have been a good scene, but in the end was only used for "HeHHhEhHeE jump scare gotcha".
- All that zombie/souls thing that didn't make much sense at the end imo.
- Fuck you to all the directors that cannot make a horror-like movie without jump scares every 3 minutes. In that case, most were lame and expected.
- Idiot plot definitely helps that movie going forward. We're in presence of the Illuminatis, featuring Reed Richards and Charles Xavier + Dr Strange as a main char, yet most of what they're doing is utterly stupid, like running away from Scarlet just to stop when they don't know where she is.
- Extreme lack of emphasis around Strange/Christine relations. The "Are you happy" part was more cringe that emotional.
- "Strange Supreme" didn't seem to be Strange Supreme but more like Depressed Strange.
- By the way, how the fuck a Master Sorcerer such as DarkHold Strange can die from falling onto pikes ????
- I'm supposed to be disappointed that Wanda died but pretty sure she didn't.

On the positive side :
- Chavez's superpower was cool af
- The depiction of Scarlet's raw power against the Illuminatis was cool af, despite her being severely nerfed afterward
- I expected Chavez to bore me but she was a good char (probably helped by the stupidity of everyone around her but okay)
- Other universes seemed cool
- Great creatures design, especially the first one that we didn't see much of unfortunately
- Strange's new powers, weird at times but interesting. More than the LED Lasso at least.
- The Charles v Wanda v Scarlet in Wanda's head was great but too short and in the end leading to nothing but to get Charles killed

[JDL49]

The critics are insane to give this movie a 70. And Wanda carried this film on her fucking BACK. Truly a Mother's Day Film and proved Scarlet Witch is a force to be fucking reckoned with.

Part of this is punishment for making WandaVision as pre-req. The critics hate that.

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An basic understanding of what went on in Wanda Vision would be all thats really required.

And that's over the line for many. Another movie that is clearly a prequel ? Fine. A TV show and one that requires a sub to boot ? No.

[Makabreska]

And that's over the line for many. Another movie that is clearly a prequel ? Fine. A TV show and one that requires a sub to boot ? No.

I got that basic understanding from a 20 min recap video on YouTube. Had zero issues following this movie.

[Darththeo]

Okay so for the things that I disliked on my part (everything in spoiler tags in case) :
- No Photon, no Vision.
- Lack of continuity : the TVA apparently doesn't exist anymore as it appears the snap never happened in the other universe and events are pretty much different all around, yet none of the very different universes were removed (the Thanos attack in the other universe should have occurred at a time the TVA was still functional). Event from The Eternals are never referenced despite being pretty big, so I suppose its box-office failure means it's non-cannon. I expected Shang Chi to quickly appear in Kamar Taj's defense, I suppose same thing as for Eternals, even though Wong's new fighting style seems inspired from Shang Chi's sister's martial art that I forgot the name of.
- Universe's "most intelligent man" just gives Wanda insight about Blackbolt's superpower, just what she needed to neutralize him. Thanks smart guy
- Illuminatis watched Blackbolt die and Mr Fantastic being spaghettied without trying to intervene. Okay then.
- Huge deception when Charles explained their Strange's backstory, I expected some flashback about Thanos' assault. That would have been lit to see another version of the battle of Titan, given it was one of the best scenes in Infinity War.
- Wanda and Strange were interesting characters until that movie, at which point they become one-dimensional (Wanda from the beginning, and Strange from the last seconds of the movie + mid-credits scene).
- The Charles v Wanda v Scarlet scene could have led to something interesting, but yet we don't see "our Wanda" anymore, neither her struggle against Scarlet. Too bad, that could have been a good scene, but in the end was only used for "HeHHhEhHeE jump scare gotcha".
- All that zombie/souls thing that didn't make much sense at the end imo.
- Fuck you to all the directors that cannot make a horror-like movie without jump scares every 3 minutes. In that case, most were lame and expected.
- Idiot plot definitely helps that movie going forward. We're in presence of the Illuminatis, featuring Reed Richards and Charles Xavier + Dr Strange as a main char, yet most of what they're doing is utterly stupid, like running away from Scarlet just to stop when they don't know where she is.
- Extreme lack of emphasis around Strange/Christine relations. The "Are you happy" part was more cringe that emotional.
- "Strange Supreme" didn't seem to be Strange Supreme but more like Depressed Strange.
- By the way, how the fuck a Master Sorcerer such as DarkHold Strange can die from falling onto pikes ????
- I'm supposed to be disappointed that Wanda died but pretty sure she didn't.

I agree the no vision is a bit of an issue, but I don't know how they'll handle White Vision going forward.

The TVA deals with branched timelines, at the end of Loki they lost control of the branched timelines and the branched timelines are becoming new universes. They are literally powerless to stop a new universe from existing. So, no, the movie isn't out of continuity with the TVA, you just misunderstood the ending of Loki. Why would Shang chi show up? There is no reason for him to be there. He isn't magic and his secret magical place is different. By the same argument, the Eternals wasn't referenced in No Way Home, could it be possible despite being a "big event" it doesn't affect the current story? It isn't like the Blip where it would have been something everyone was impacted deeply and emotionally by.

Just because you are intelligent doesn't mean you are incapable of making a mistake. Remember, he also thought our strange was a larger threat at that time than Wanda despite literally being told Wanda has the power to shape reality as she wants.

Shock, that's your answer. They underestimated Wanda's ability or expected her to back down when she saw them.

While it would have been cool, how how their Thanos was defeated doesn't really add anything to the story when the story was about what Strange had to do.

I disagree with them being "one dimensional." I understand how you see it that way, but I feel that is more that you are taking a quick look and making a judgment.

Because "our wanda" has fully embraced her powers as the Scarlet Witch. She isn't fighting against it, so why would we see that? And the movie explains the power she is using dominates the mind of your alternate.

It was literally explained the Zombie/Souls thing before it happened.

It is a Raimi movie after all.

So, like a ton of other movies where people don't think things through.

Um what? This is completely false, the relationship is a huge part of the story. I mean it is extremely emphasized in the movie.

Because it isn't Strange Supreme. It is a character very close to Strange Supreme, but not the same character.

Because he is still mortal.

I agree with that.

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And that's over the line for many. Another movie that is clearly a prequel ? Fine. A TV show and one that requires a sub to boot ? No.

The movie gives you a run down of what happened in Wandavision that is important and mentions the parts that matter.

I mean Wandavision definitely is recommended, but the movie tells you the important stuff.

[Darththeo]

if your movie needs homework its not a great movie

Taking this logic to the extreme, all sequels cannot be great movies. Good to know.

[Ophenia]

I agree the no vision is a bit of an issue, but I don't know how they'll handle White Vision going forward.

The TVA deals with branched timelines, at the end of Loki they lost control of the branched timelines and the branched timelines are becoming new universes. They are literally powerless to stop a new universe from existing. So, no, the movie isn't out of continuity with the TVA, you just misunderstood the ending of Loki. Why would Shang chi show up? There is no reason for him to be there. He isn't magic and his secret magical place is different. By the same argument, the Eternals wasn't referenced in No Way Home, could it be possible despite being a "big event" it doesn't affect the current story? It isn't like the Blip where it would have been something everyone was impacted deeply and emotionally by.

Well, it seems the universe we're seeing in Multiverse of Madness with the Illuminati was roughly at the same period as ours. Which means that when Infinity War happened, the TVA was still functional (as Loki was captured by the TVA at Endgame timeline). So I have trouble thinking a universe with such huge discrepancies would not make the TVA radars blip a bit when they defeated Thanos before the snap and killed Dr Strange right after. In fact, as soon as "their" Strange took the Dark Hold, this reality should have been erased as it would have threatened everything. That's something the TVA should have detected as far as I understood.

Just because you are intelligent doesn't mean you are incapable of making a mistake. Remember, he also thought our strange was a larger threat at that time than Wanda despite literally being told Wanda has the power to shape reality as she wants.

Shock, that's your answer. They underestimated Wanda's ability or expected her to back down when she saw them.

Yup of course, but such huge errors are weird imo.

While it would have been cool, how how their Thanos was defeated doesn't really add anything to the story when the story was about what Strange had to do.

But that would have helped establishing the powerlevel of the Illuminatis, and hence the sheer power of Scarlet. For those not familiar with the Comics, Black Bolt has only been seen killing a defenseless Strange, and Mr Fantastic has only ... said things. For Mr Fantastic it's a bit different as it's a more widely known character but still.
But yeah I was only thinking that because that'd have been a very cool scene, even if that was a 1-minute short scene without fundamental effect on the story.

I disagree with them being "one dimensional." I understand how you see it that way, but I feel that is more that you are taking a quick look and making a judgment.

Yup you're correct here, that's the rough feeling I have with Strange but we've only seen with his third eye for like 20 seconds so difficult to say. But Darkhold Strange was a bit boring imo so if he's going to be roughly the same character, I'm not hyped at all.
For Wanda/Scarlet I felt like her inner conflict was a lot more better pictured in WandaVision, here she's bad, and the final Scarlet v Wanda at the end was a bit flat.

Because he is still mortal.

I'm not saying he should die impaled by spikes. I'm saying it's a bit stupid that a master sorcerer as Strange dies like that when he has many, many tools to avoid that (like moving things, the lasso etc)

Because "our wanda" has fully embraced her powers as the Scarlet Witch. She isn't fighting against it, so why would we see that? And the movie explains the power she is using dominates the mind of your alternate.

Ah correct, here it's me who misunderstood the scene, I thought Wanda (ours) was trying to reach out to Charles from Scarlet but it was, obviously (yet I missed it ) the other universe's Wanda.

Regarding White Vision well... If it didn't come in a Wanda-related movie, I have no clue why we would see it anywhere

[Deadite]

My review. It was fine. Few dumb as shit bits right enough but was mostly good. Well brutal in some parts. When she took apart the Illuminati. Fuckin hell. Turns out she couldn't do that all day.Best end credit scene ever!

[Darththeo]

Well, it seems the universe we're seeing in Multiverse of Madness with the Illuminati was roughly at the same period as ours. Which means that when Infinity War happened, the TVA was still functional (as Loki was captured by the TVA at Endgame timeline). So I have trouble thinking a universe with such huge discrepancies would not make the TVA radars blip a bit when they defeated Thanos before the snap and killed Dr Strange right after. In fact, as soon as "their" Strange took the Dark Hold, this reality should have been erased as it would have threatened everything. That's something the TVA should have detected as far as I understood.

Loki ended with timelines spinning off from all prior times. And the TVA exists outside of our flow of time, so saying "The TVA was still functional" is misleading. You had timelines spinning off from prior movies, prior events before the movies, etc.

The TVA is broken, regardless now when the movie takes place. The TVA that exists, is the one from the END of Loki rather than the TVA at the start of Loki. The TVA does not obey our rules of Time. That's why you can have Old Loki, Young Loki, Girl Loki, Black Loki, and gator Loki all talking to each other.

As for:

But that would have helped establishing the powerlevel of the Illuminatis, and hence the sheer power of Scarlet. For those not familiar with the Comics, Black Bolt has only been seen killing a defenseless Strange, and Mr Fantastic has only ... said things. For Mr Fantastic it's a bit different as it's a more widely known character but still.
But yeah I was only thinking that because that'd have been a very cool scene, even if that was a 1-minute short scene without fundamental effect on the story.

I agree. It could definitely been better. The characters were barely around in the movie. I think it would have been better to cut the fight at Kamar-taj, or shorten it at least to give more time with the Illumanti characters. Especially given that Black Bolt's only other MCU appearance was in the short lived and now questionably if it is canon to the MCU Inhumans series.

These characters deserved more than glorified cameos in the movie. I mean we meat them and they are dead a few scenes later. They could have done some better pacing imo.

[Makabreska]

Ye, they did Blackbolt/Mr Fantastic dirty. Not a good introduction of these characters.

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if your movie needs homework its not a great movie

Terrible logic. Majority of sequels require certain knowledge of past movies to to fully get the plot, and MCU has been a series o stories presented in movie/series format for a looong time. Is Return of the King/Return of the Jedi not a good book/movie, because you need to know Two Towers/Empire Strikes Back? Coming here and acting like it is not a thing is dishonest af.

[Darththeo]

My counter here is you risk focusing too much on the new characters. It’s cool to tease them, but give them proper MCU introductions in movies where it’s about their stories and not Strange/Wanda.

Good point. I can understand that.

I didn't think in that way.

[Makabreska]

The fact you needed like 26 films worth of knowledge was cute for Endgame but that's not going to be novel for the next 10 films

So that means thy should not make a cohesive cinematic universe, because you just cannot create an ongoing, spanning many years narrative containing many plot lines and characters without requiring a certain amount of knowledge from past movies and shows to fully grasp what is going on.

[Iain]

I like that a movie is unapologetic about the amount of knowledge viewers need about it in order to fully enjoy it. The alternative would be dumbing it down and making constant expositional call-backs.

That said. I didn't watch the Wanda show, it seems quite important for this movie, and therefore I'm giving this a pass. I just appreciate that Disney didn't feel like compromising for the likes of me.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

if your movie needs homework its not a great movie

Infinity War and Endgame require a lot more "homework" than 6 hours of television.

[Makabreska]

I like that a movie is unapologetic about the amount of knowledge viewers need about it in order to fully enjoy it. The alternative would be dumbing it down and making constant expositional call-backs.

That said. I didn't watch the Wanda show, it seems quite important for this movie, and therefore I'm giving this a pass. I just appreciate that Disney didn't feel like compromising for the likes of me.

Again, I also didn't watch WandaVision, but a YouTube recap gave me all necessary knowledge. And let's face it, literally all you need to know is that Wanda created a fictional town with her fictional kids, but it al went downhill. That's it. No other character from that series makes an appearance.