May you explain me why BFA was considered so bad??

[Ielenia]

Trees don't burn,

... Eh?

In an universe where ghosts and demons actually exist, people get turned into sheep and bipedal cows exist, how is "trees don't burn" what breaks your immersion? Especially since it wasn't your average fire that was tossed on Teldrassil, but magically enhanced fire.

Classes got pruned in Legion and Artifacts and Legendaries were missing in BfA. So many classes felt lackluster. Also you were much weaker in 8.0 than in 7.3. Not a good feeling.

Classes always feel weaker going into a new expansion. Legion->BfA was not an exception.

You got +15 loot in the first week from doing a Legion dungeon the week before.

What?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying BfA is good or even average, but I'm confused at some of your complaints.

[LordVargK]

... Eh?

In an universe where ghosts and demons actually exist, people get turned into sheep and bipedal cows exist, how is "trees don't burn" what breaks your immersion? Especially since it wasn't your average fire that was tossed on Teldrassil, but magically enhanced fire.

It's a world tree. A magical tree surrounded by water with bark meters thick. Nordrassil, the other World Tree, wasn't even killed by Archimonde unleashing his full power and basically exploding ontop of it. And a few catapults firing from miles away did the trick for a tree surrounded by and filled with water? Please.

Classes always feel weaker going into a new expansion. Legion->BfA was not an exception.

True, but before Legion classes gained new abilities while leveling. Legion pruned most classes to oblivion and filled the void with Artifacts and Legendaries. BfA removed those, didn't fix the classes and did not offer an alternative to Legion's borrowed power.

What?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying BfA is good or even average, but I'm confused at some of your complaints.

You got at BfA season item from doing a legion dungeon. And it took long enough for Blizzard to fix it. BfA did not have the worst release (WoD *cough*), but it was close.

[Utrrabbit]

Keywords being 'once it gets going'. Forest fires start with dry/dead underbrush, not living trees. And IIRC the catapults hit dead on the tree itself, not up in the crown or base where the buildings would be.

It's an easy enough experiment, try setting up a campfire with freshly cut wood, you'll have a bitch of a time getting it going, even more so if you do the scale of Teldrassil's trunk compared to those flimsy little catapult-shots.

It showed the catapult hitting the city too. So. It did not just hit the tree. That being said. Ive personally seen fully alive trees catch on fire and burn without any dead/dry underbrush. It does happen.

[Venziir]

BFA was one of the most barebones expansions in the history of the game. The only thing it had going for it was the story, which is a burning carfire. Half of the Horde is acting out of character. Suevanas commits mass genocide on a whim. Morally righteous characters like Dezco or Lor'themar aren't immediately revolting against Suevanas immediately. The Alliance gets to kill Rastakhan but Horde players don't get to kill Jaina as she teleports away and escapes. The Alliance storyline is unsatisfying as they keep getting genocided but are never allowed to actually deal with the problem once and for all. We get sad orc story #47.



Even if you disregard the writing, the questing content isn't very fun to play compared to MoP or even WoD.

Four expansion concepts (war arc, South Seas, Azshara, N'zoth) are thrown away in one expac. N'ylotha wasn't even a zone.

The quality of the voice acting has declined.

The music continues to suck. I have three tracks from BFA on my favorite's playlist but otherwise the soundtrack is a dud. Should have brought Russell Brower and Jeremy Soule back.

Decline in aesthetics. The new character models and armor look really goofy and don't fit the Warcraft universe.

Zones are very mundane and don't feel very fantastical.

I need not mention Azerite power.

No content to do outside of the questing. What, you consider doing your world quest chores or running the same dungeon over and over again on time attack mode to be content?

The one thing I did like about BFA was the island expeditions, which were sadly thrown away and forgotten. I preferred levelling up to cap through them rather than slogging through the questing experience.

That comic got quite a bit wrong though - not just the spelling of Mannoroth, but also the fact that the Night Elves did *indeed* attack first. The orcs had no idea that the forests were sacred or inhabited. But the Elves, instead of showing themselves or even informing the orcs, that they should stop; attacked without warning. At no point did the "oh so wise" Cenarius even attempt to commune with the orcs.

... Also omega-lul at the bull regarding goofy models and mundane zones.

[Sluvs]

Well, I can only speak for myself, so....


- Horde became the bad guys. Again.
- Disliked the Theme and its lore. I feel Like if they wanted to try faction war ONCE AGAIN, they should have done it in a better way.
- Islands expeditions flopped. Big time.
- Warfront had an awesome potential and were executed so badly that it was offensive.
- Azerite armor was just plain bad, essences were better but still bad.
- Wasted a huge big bad like nzoth in a great patch, but he could have easily carried a whole expansion.
- Wasted a huge big bad like Azshara in a great patch, but she could have easily carried a whole expansion.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

One belongs to the Warcraft universe. The other belongs to a tumblr cartoon. You tell me which is which.

The depths of your disconnect between objective and subjective continue to surprise me. I don't really understand how somebody can continue to make such broad assertions and continuously be wrong each time.

[RedBrood]

Azerite gear, while I like the concept was poorly done imo.

Story felt....Poorly written in almost all the phases. Sylv to me was a decent character in Cata. They honestly just copied pasted Garrosh had moments of cool development in one zone, and then in the next he's back to "hehe I evil hehe". Stop having 200 writers writing a character it just makes it so confusing.

Promises to make both factions "Gray" never happened. Horde was evil, Alliance was good.

No new characters really. Some here and there but nothing to ever help stroke that faction pride. Warcraft imo is(was) huge on faction play, and they found a way to make it so dull and just not fun.

[Caprias]

I play mainly Mage and Warlock, both those classes where pretty much similar but worse versions in BfA until essences arrived than they where at any point in Legion, azerite armor was not at all what they tried to sell us at Blizzcon with mostly being boring procs...

I basically tasted the worst part of borrowed power there I guess, quit around 6 weeks in and only came back for the last patch (which was pretty fun to be fair).

Island and Warfronts basically also had the "mandatory but boring chore" aspect like torghast I guess, they were fun for the early weeks but when I quit I already got mildly bored of them, they really gotta stop with putting power behind content like that and make it purely side/transmog content.

[Bwgmon]

One belongs to the Warcraft universe. The other belongs to a tumblr cartoon. You tell me which is which.

"One belongs to the Warcraft universe. The other belongs to a tumblr cartoon" indeed. Warcraft has always been super cartoony, with designs ranging from "absurdly intense" to "incredibly soft."

That being said, the only issue I have with the hyena on the right is that the fur is a bit too clean. The left one having a permanent snarl always looked bad tbh.

[Ielenia]

It's a world tree. A magical tree surrounded by water with bark meters thick. Nordrassil, the other World Tree, wasn't even killed by Archimonde unleashing his full power and basically exploding ontop of it. And a few catapults firing from miles away did the trick for a tree surrounded by and filled with water? Please.

Again, you keep ignoring the fact that it wasn't your average fire that was tossed onto Teldrassil, but magically-enhanced fire. Also, Teldrassil is certainly not like Nordrassil. For example, it didn't have the blessings of the Ancients, which is what granted part of, if not the majority of the power the original World Tree had.

True, but before Legion classes gained new abilities while leveling. Legion pruned most classes to oblivion and filled the void with Artifacts and Legendaries. BfA removed those, didn't fix the classes and did not offer an alternative to Legion's borrowed power.

WoD did not give classes any new active abilities, by the way. All we got were "draenor perks" that were passive abilities.

You got at BfA season item from doing a legion dungeon. And it took long enough for Blizzard to fix it. BfA did not have the worst release (WoD *cough*), but it was close.

I never heard of that, and searching the internet yielded no results.

[cparle87]

[LIST][*]The lore did not make any sense. Trees don't burn

I guess forest fires are just made up, then.

[Dellis0991]

First of, I played Wow until the end of 2018. Meaning that I only played BFA in the first raid tier. I was able to kill Mythic Zul with my guild, and tried the island expenditions, the new allied race, and the warfronts.

I remember that I really enjoyed the expansion, I quit just because I got a new job and wow was very time consuming.

So, I really want to know why BFA was so hated. I have read enough information about why Shadowland was considered the worst WOW expansion, but I havent see much information why BFA was hated too.

Thanks

Gameplay wise BFA was okay (with the exception of warmode (FUCK warmode), but storywise it was god awful.

[arkanon]

People get bored because they play too much, then they confuse that with the expansion being bad.

I played bfa the least of any expansion right back to vanilla, and quit because I didn't enjoy it.

- - - Updated - - -

• The lore did not make any sense. Trees don't burn, Sylvanas was annoying, Saurfang did only cry and in general another faction war felt forced especially with the Horde as an aggressor right with Garrosh still fresh on their minds. Oh, and Nzoth was just suddenly there.
• Island expeditions were boring as fuck but the best way to level and grind AP.
• Azerite armor was in alpha state at release. A concept that punishes you for getting a better piece of gear should have never gone live. And it did not get that much better as the expansion went on. You were heavily punished for playing more than one spec of your class.
• There were only 3 zones per faction, so leveling became stale very fast. Also loading screens were abundant. Just going to one of the central Locations of the expansion, the chamber of heart, required 2 screens in one minute. Getting to the opposing faction zones was also annoying.
• Coming from Legion most dungeons felt much worse.
• Classes got pruned in Legion and Artifacts and Legendaries were missing in BfA. So many classes felt lackluster. Also you were much weaker in 8.0 than in 7.3. Not a good feeling.
• Warfronts were way too easy. It was a scripted event, where your faction would always win, even if your team went fully afk (and many players did. Blizzard's solution? Kick afkers...). In addition the Horde got basically one week of free loot from them to equip alts, while this feature was patched out once the Alliance got to play WFs.
• You could level cooking with vendor mats. That bug was not fixed for days (and was on ptr), so people assumed it was intended. Well, Blizzard removed the mats from the vendor, leaving all people who weren't fast enough in the dirt.
• You got +15 loot in the first week from doing a Legion dungeon the week before.
• Bottom line: BfA was released in absolute beta state and some systems never made it out of beta.

SL is not even remotely as bad as BfA.

Just to be clear.......you think trees don't burn? Are forest fires a hoax?

[Kokolums]

the only fun raid was bod. azerite gear sucked.

[LordVargK]

I guess forest fires are just made up, then.

Forest fires are mostly dead or near dead/dry trees burning. Living, healthy trees are nearly impossible to burn.

- - - Updated - - -

Just to be clear.......you think trees don't burn? Are forest fires a hoax?

Go to a healthy tree and try to set fire to it. You won't be able to set it ablaze.

- - - Updated - - -

Again, you keep ignoring the fact that it wasn't your average fire that was tossed onto Teldrassil, but magically-enhanced fire. Also, Teldrassil is certainly not like Nordrassil. For example, it didn't have the blessings of the Ancients, which is what granted part of, if not the majority of the power the original World Tree had.


WoD did not give classes any new active abilities, by the way. All we got were "draenor perks" that were passive abilities.


I never heard of that, and searching the internet yielded no results.

https://www.darklegacycomics.com/647
There was even a comic about it...
For a further summary https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...a_rollback_is/

Passive abilities are still abilities, although I agree that WoD was a step back from Legion.

"Magical fire", yeah sure, how innovative. If you want to like BfA's story, fine. You can't argue taste.

[arkanon]

Forest fires are mostly dead or near dead/dry trees burning. Living, healthy trees are nearly impossible to burn.

- - - Updated - - -



Go to a healthy tree and try to set fire to it. You won't be able to set it ablaze.

- - - Updated - - -



https://www.darklegacycomics.com/647
There was even a comic about it...

Passive abilities are still abilities, although I agree that WoD was a step back from Legion.

"Magical fire", yeah sure, how innovative. If you want to like BfA's story, fine. You can't argue taste.

Hahahahahaha. No, just absolute garbage. You are 100% wrong and need to educate yourself. So many healthy living trees burn in forest fires, there exist multiple studies specifically on the release of carbon WHEN THEY BURN IN FOREST FIRES.

Seriously, how can someone be so wrong about something? Holy shit dude.

[cparle87]

Forest fires are mostly dead or near dead/dry trees burning. Living, healthy trees are nearly impossible to burn.

This is a world of magic with numerous races capable of fire magic, sure as shaman who the Horde has many of. On top of that Azerite was shown to explode like C4, cover the ground and burn like napalm, and many other applications. It's been heavily discussed that shaman using wind and/or earth magic to increase a catapult's range adding the volatility of and potency could easily bring the tree down.

I love how you're trying to dare people in real life with a torch or homemade flamethrower at most to set a live tree on fire and trying to apply that logic to a video game world.

[arkanon]

I love how you're trying to dare people in real life with a torch or homemade flamethrower at most to set a live tree on fire and trying to apply that logic to a video game world.

I just love the fact its absolutely flatout WRONG - like this isnt something up for debate - a forest fire will melt a firetruck down to its chassis, but apparently wont burn a tree......its just mind-blowing to me someone could be so confident, and yet so wrong about something most 5yo children understand perfectly well.

But i agree with your point and have raised it many times myself - dont get caught up in realism in a game where you get dragons in the mail, including across multiple realities.

- Orcs and dragons - fine
- Flying horses - fine
- The ability to carry 3T of loot in our pockets - fine
- Magic, Necromancy, Demons, Magical Instances, portals, time travel - all fine
- Giant city tree get set on fire - "i draw the line there, thats unrealistic"

[Dastreus]

-Some specs were trashed.
-Artifact armor was garbage.
-The daily grind took way longer than previous.
-As others have pointed out, South Seas and Naga/Azshara stuff could have been an expansion itself.
-N'zoth got royally shafted (especially, considering the hints they were going for, which would have made N'zoth the most powerful of the Old Gods, if they do indeed eat the defeated ones for more power).
-Nyalotha, talked about for years, got shafted.
-Azshara got shafted.
-Isle Expeditions were a mess.
-The dungeons were pointless after doing them a first time, outside of Mythic +.
-Blizz said "the night elves got their revenge" when the topic came up about avenging Teldrassil, and continued with "they retook Darkshore".
-Similarily, Blizz also said no night elven presence in 8.2, when dealing with the ancient enemy of the night elves, Azshara, because "they got enough screen time this expac"

Am I missing anything? Oh, right, and this is all on the back of Nightborne being Horde only, instead of neutral, for shabby reasons, and alliance got pallet swapped draenei. Should have been void elf (or high elf, frankly), for alliance, highmountain tauren or maghar orc for horde, and nightborne neutral.

[cparle87]

I just love the fact its absolutely flatout WRONG - like this isnt something up for debate - a forest fire will melt a firetruck down to its chassis, but apparently wont burn a tree......its just mind-blowing to me someone could be so confident, and yet so wrong about something most 5yo children understand perfectly well.

But i agree with your point and have raised it many times myself - dont get caught up in realism in a game where you get dragons in the mail, including across multiple realities.

- Orcs and dragons - fine
- Flying horses - fine
- The ability to carry 3T of loot in our pockets - fine
- Magic, Necromancy, Demons, Magical Instances, portals, time travel - all fine
- Giant city tree get set on fire - "i draw the line there, thats unrealistic"

There was another thread talking about how the catapults wouldn't be able to reach. And someone pointed out shamanism is a thing. Wind magic to propel the stone further, earth magic to lighten the boulder itself up to a point (don't make it too light or it becomes counterproductive). I could totally see the Horde using magitek style siege equipment. I doubt the iron stars were 100% technology, goblins have shaman. I mean look at the guy who made them, channelling a red beam into them to build them.