How I Would Fix Drakthyr

[Skayth]

Well not really, since feedback seems rather scattered. Some want a bulkier character, others want them to wear armor, others want Dracthyr to be other classes. It’s truly all over the place. Also at the same time, you have other posters who like what they’re seeing.

Again, the problem is that if Blizzard wants the Dracthyr to be slim, not wear armor, and be locked in with the Evoker class, then that isn’t a bug, it’s a feature. You’re simply not going to sway them away from that design goal. Especially if some of the arguments have transphobia and homophobia interlaced within them.

I want all 3. I want bulkier. I want fucking armor. I want to be able to be a fucking warrior and live out my dragon knight fantasy.

But they cant even bother rigging armor to it or giving it extra classes. Soooo the one thing that I know I want fixed and probably the easiest? Making them more defining physique. (Classes would be easier if they are already rigged the skeleton with all the different moves)

But hey, I'm sure they have already seen the negative feedback of this (from multiple sources) cause they were quick to say you can customize it. So what's one more slider of choosing body size?

[Kithelle]

I dno about you chief but I never said anything about the female Dracthyr. If Tauren and Draenei males can look like imposing beef-cakes why can't I have the option to have an imposing beef-cake Dracthyr?

- - - Updated - - -



Yes I see them, and althought you are correct that there are slim differences between the two for the overall model it doesn't change my perspective that it still is very much a slender-man

Because not every race is the same? There are already a ton of races that are a mountain of muscles...we get it, you need to compensate for something with your in game avatars, doesn't mean the game needs it

[Calfredd]

Because not every race is the same? There are already a ton of races that are a mountain of muscles...we get it, you need to compensate for something with your in game avatars, doesn't mean the game needs it

My goodness. You, Teriz, Royru, all have such trash justifications to shoot down criticism. Using the arguments of people who don't even need 2 hands to count in a thread with 32 pages (of 20 posts each) to outright dismiss everyone else's legitimate critiques is even lazier than the comments you all lambast.

[Teriz]

My goodness. You, Teriz, Royru, all have such trash justifications to shoot down criticism. Using the arguments of people who don't even need 2 hands to count in a thread with 32 pages (of 20 posts each) to outright dismiss everyone else's legitimate critiques is even lazier than the comments you all lambast.

My general issue with some of the suggestions here are that they are coming from a position of general ignorance.

For example, the size issue; People want beefier looking Dracthyr. That’s fine if Dracthyr were the size of Night Elves or Worgen, but they’re actually seemingly taller than Tauren, and could very well be the tallest race in the game. You factor that height in with their wing span and tail length, and you have an extremely large and visually impressive character.

More than likely, a character that size isn’t going to be made bulkier, because a lot of bulk on a character that tall with a large wingspan is a rather large visual obstruction. When that is taken into consideration (along with the developer note that the race is more magical than physical), the slimmer frame makes more sense.

In short, we have slimmer dracthyr models for very good reasons design wise, not because the lead artist is trans as a few posters here alluded to.

[Echo of Soul]

Why do you feel like they need to be changed? Finally Blizzard is adding something that's appealing to those of us who aren't heteronormative and the first thing people want to do is change it, why?? The entire rest of the game is already catered to you

[Kithelle]

My goodness. You, Teriz, Royru, all have such trash justifications to shoot down criticism. Using the arguments of people who don't even need 2 hands to count in a thread with 32 pages (of 20 posts each) to outright dismiss everyone else's legitimate critiques is even lazier than the comments you all lambast.

The models suck because they're not roided out is trash criticism...they suck because they aren't a mountain of muscles isn't legitimate critique. You just wanting everything to look the same, that is ridiculous

[Nymrohd]

The models suck because they're not roided out is trash criticism...they suck because they aren't a mountain of muscles isn't legitimate critique. You just wanting everything to look the same, that is ridiculous

I think the proportions are weird and a lot of people think that would be fixed by bulking them out. The claws nearly reach the knees (e.g. people have found night elves having gorilla arms as problematic for years) the hips don't seem to match the shoulders, the waist seem fairly high up tapering just below the breast at the height of the elbows.
All the criticism could be misguided because we haven't had enough information. As pointed out, it could all just be because the stills are from different points in animation; you could take a still of the most "heroic" looking men and women on the world midaction were they will look ridiculous. A Blizzcon reveal would have had much more information. Legion which was not revealed in a Blizzcon was followed up by blogs the very next week (reveal was 6/8 and the class blogs started like 11/8). People may well be working on wrong information. Blizzard has been very forward with professions so perhaps it's just that the team is focusing on that first. The sooner the Blog on Dracthyr customization comes out the better.

[Magical Mudcrab]

My general issue with some of the suggestions here are that they are coming from a position of general ignorance.

For example, the size issue; People want beefier looking Dracthyr. That’s fine if Dracthyr were the size of Night Elves or Worgen, but they’re actually seemingly taller than Tauren, and could very well be the tallest race in the game. You factor that height in with their wing span and tail length, and you have an extremely large and visually impressive character.

More than likely, a character that size isn’t going to be made bulkier, because a lot of bulk on a character that tall with a large wingspan is a rather large visual obstruction. When that is taken into consideration (along with the developer note that the race is more magical than physical), the slimmer frame makes more sense.

In short, we have slimmer dracthyr models for very good reasons design wise, not because the lead artist is trans as a few posters here alluded to.

What are you talking about? They're a large visual obstruction? If you had ever actually played a larger race like a Tauren, you would realize that's a silly argument to make. People aren't playing zoomed in to the screen, and typically play at larger camera distances. It's soo weird that you're saying people are arguing from a position of ignorance when it's clear that you have no idea what it's like to play a larger race.

[Nymrohd]

What are you talking about? They're a large visual obstruction? If you had ever actually played a larger race like a Tauren, you would realize that's a silly argument to make. People aren't playing zoomed in to the screen, and typically play at larger camera distances. It's soo weird that you're saying people are arguing from a position of ignorance when it's clear that you have no idea what it's like to play a larger race.

Plus they are ranged. Maybe it'd be an issue if they were melee (not even an issue if they were tanks) but this is a midrange class. Are people playing in first person?

[bruxx]

Hard stop right there. I am NOT trying to dismis trans and homophobic slurs as have I stood against them in this very thread. I Pretty clearly said that they should be dismissed and not taken seriously. The narrative that you are trying to spin is that the transphobes have tainted all feedback regarding their model and my point was that i do not think that this actually happening. I think there are transphobes but my very point is that you should NOT count them and be able to parse the good feedback from the bad. What you are saying its that it is too late for that.

There was plenty of feedback that was not phrased like this and you know it. If you are going to say that I am dimissing the transphobia here as a non issue, which i am very much not doing, it is better to stop this discussion right here because I am honestly not in the mood to be offended or to get into a heated argument.

I'm not sure how wanting my Dracthyr to be able to show their mog in their real, dragon form and want them to not be ludicrous tall makes me a transphobe, but I guess I'll take it if it's the only way of providing feedback for this race/class that I am really looking forward to to become even better.

- - - Updated - - -

Plus they are ranged. Maybe it'd be an issue if they were melee (not even an issue if they were tanks) but this is a midrange class. Are people playing in first person?

Also, there's just no evidence to them being as tall as Teriz claims. Gnomes and Dwarves are exactly the same size in character creation, so it is absolutely not a reliable way to compare racial sizes. (Also, remember that the Zandalari got their height modified during alpha/beta, the same can happen again)

[Nymrohd]

I'm not sure how wanting my Dracthyr to be able to show their mog in their real, dragon form and want them to not be ludicrous tall makes me a transphobe, but I guess I'll take it if it's the only way of providing feedback for this race/class that I am really looking forward to to become even better.

Honestly I'd say the race itself is problematic in that regard. Playing a non-gendered race that is forced to shift into idealized gender forms every time you want to get on your mount is not a friendly representation of anything.

[Skayth]

Why do you feel like they need to be changed? Finally Blizzard is adding something that's appealing to those of us who aren't heteronormative and the first thing people want to do is change it, why?? The entire rest of the game is already catered to you

Ur barking up the wrong tree here and this is coming from a nonbinary person. I'm for an option where you slide to your desired look, but as it is, I highly doubt they will add body sliders for this race, I'd rather go with the option it doesnt look like it's a twig. (Maybe then I can get a masc female?)

[Calfredd]

The models suck because they're not roided out is trash criticism...they suck because they aren't a mountain of muscles isn't legitimate critique. You just wanting everything to look the same, that is ridiculous

No you're ridiculous! Do you seriously believe there is nothing between what the drachtyr are now and this? Ignoring the people that call it soy, furry, and/or trans trash, no one is seriously asking for another refrigerator-chested player race and that you keep insisting that is the case is your people's issue (the aforementioned people I listed in your quoted post).

[Kithelle]

No you're ridiculous! Do you seriously believe there is nothing between what the drachtyr are now and this? Ignoring the people that call it soy, furry, and/or trans trash, no one is seriously asking for another refrigerator-chested player race and that you keep insisting that is the case is your people's issue (the aforementioned people I listed in your quoted post).

Except that is exactly what people are asking for...you don't even need to leave the first page to see multiple different examples where they want roided out dragons

[Auburst]

You do know that R/WoW has over 2 million members right?

If more people disagreed then it would have hit 0 likes.

If only 1% of players are complaining about something it isnt really an issue that even means anything, you cant just claim that since there are mostly negative comments about something that its the general consensus of the whole community, forums are just there for bored and grumpy gamers.

Character models are the least of the games worries, complain about the real issues with WoW and not some minor personal qualms.

These are real issues and dismissive attitude won't change that.

Okay in order to show you (well anyone who is actually still is being honest with themselves) that they are in completely differently breathing cycles lets first see what we can tell from a dragon who 100% is in a different cycle.



In this picture:

1: You clearly see the inhale his chin is up, during the exhale (bottom picture) his chin is down

2: You clearly see his wings spread further out during inhale so you see less of the background than in the bottom. You can't see the lanturn

3: Shoulders look smaller because of this because during exhale his body is obviously contracted.

Now that we established this lets go to your picture



1: White dragons chin is clearly down, you can even see his chin line overlap his neck. Green dragon is straight up. This alone proves they are in two different cycles

2's: The arrows labeled as two you can clearly see the you can see more background because his wings are contracted. In the white image specifically you can see both eyes of the lion poster behind. In the green the left eye is clearly 100% covered.

Purple arrows: Compared the arrows on the dips of the dragons wings. The white once clearly are wayyy closer to his body. The middle ligament is directly behind the hand on the white dragon while on the green dragon the middle ligament is way further away.

This is all to show you that you are clearly full of it. Anyone who actually watches the video and has even a hint of something they call a brain can tell that the white one is in a complete exhale while the green one is puffed up in an inhale making him appear to be bigger.

So where is the proof? Screen alignment is proof of nothing because on video we can see them breathe and change wings position slightly. It's not exactly the same frame of the breathing cycle but we can see both of their breathing cycles on the video.



2 minutes 58 seconds

I don't know if there are glasses for brains but that's not how breathing works in life and WoW. While inhaling green and white dragons bodies slightly stretch and we can see that their body shapes remain largely the same:

1. White dragon's chest is smaller
2. White dragon's shoulders are less portruding. Don't confuse shoulders with traps.
3. White dragon's biceps are smaller
4. White dragon's waist is smaller

[Nymrohd]

Eh I don't think Warcraft players play roided out races that much. Elves of all kinds are the most common and then humans. Draenei are common but we don't really have stats on gender; my experience on Argent Dawn is that female draenei are much more common than male ones. While all of these races are extremely fit in appearance the only ones that I'd call roided out are draenei males and to a much lesser extent human males and night elves. There are multiple suggestions in the first page indeed and only one is really roided out; the other bulky ones are just people asking for Draconids instead which is a separate concern.

- - - Updated - - -

If only 1% of players are complaining about something it isnt really an issue that even means anything, you cant just claim that since there are mostly negative comments about something that its the general consensus of the whole community, forums are just there for bored and grumpy gamers.

Character models are the least of the games worries, complain about the real issues with WoW and not some minor personal qualms.

Honestly I am on the biggest RP server in Europe and every time someone mentions Dragonflight on trade there are numerous people who have no idea the next expansion was announced. I mean sure it's on the client but some people just press play and don't notice anything else. The part of the playerbase that actually even knows Dracthyr exist and has seen multiple pictures of them is likely small.

[Kiria]

This reminds me of the Summoner pets issues in FFXIV, people complained summons were too small and not well designed, Yoshi P listened and gave players big beefy models for their summoned pets only to be Welcomed with PETS R TOO BIG!!!111 cant see shizz in raid because pets too big!!!, Yes they fixed it by allowing people to now personally adjust sizes from their client but there's always gonna be a bunch oh bishes moaning somewhere and atm its the people saying the current design is shit/soy/trans, and those people deserve to not be listened to or respected, you know who you are.

[Auburst]

This reminds me of the Summoner pets issues in FFXIV, people complained summons were too small and not well designed, Yoshi P listened and gave players big beefy models for their summoned pets only to be Welcomed with PETS R TOO BIG!!!111 cant see shizz in raid because pets too big!!!, Yes they fixed it by allowing people to now personally adjust sizes from their client but there's always gonna be a bunch oh bishes moaning somewhere and atm its the people saying the current design is shit/soy/trans, and those people deserve to not be listened to or respected, you know who you are.

So they gave players beyond what they wanted. That's the only relevant info here. The current design definitely is shitsoy.

[Teriz]

What are you talking about? They're a large visual obstruction? If you had ever actually played a larger race like a Tauren, you would realize that's a silly argument to make. People aren't playing zoomed in to the screen, and typically play at larger camera distances. It's soo weird that you're saying people are arguing from a position of ignorance when it's clear that you have no idea what it's like to play a larger race.

You’re not accounting for their wings, which are very large and open and close constantly during ability animation;




Imagine something larger than a Tauren with massive wings on either side, and a long tail.



- - - Updated - - -

Plus they are ranged. Maybe it'd be an issue if they were melee (not even an issue if they were tanks) but this is a midrange class. Are people playing in first person?

Yes, which means that players who can fight at even farther ranges like Hunters and mages, will be behind them.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, there's just no evidence to them being as tall as Teriz claims. Gnomes and Dwarves are exactly the same size in character creation, so it is absolutely not a reliable way to compare racial sizes. (Also, remember that the Zandalari got their height modified during alpha/beta, the same can happen again)

Also in the thread we did more than compare it in the character select screen.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-Dracthyr-size

They’re going to be very tall.

[Auburst]

You’re not accounting for their wings, which are very large and open and close constantly during ability animation;




Imagine something larger than a Tauren with massive wings on either side, and a long tail.



- - - Updated - - -



Yes, which means that players who can fight at even farther ranges like Hunters and mages, will be behind them.

- - - Updated - - -






Also in the thread we did more than compare it in the character select screen.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-Dracthyr-size

They’re going to be very tall.

It wouldn't be a problem if they were wider.