Group Finder for WOTLK is a great tool, why the hate?.

[Akka]

All this is true, but it rests on one assumption: that "community" (as used here) is not only inherently good, but that it's also better than convenience.

And I'd say that's far from "self-obvious".

Well, it's a MMO. Playing with people is the whole point. If you automate grouping and remove the need to communicate, then you're just left with a solo game with subscription and bad AI.

[DarkAmbient]

No, the logic is pretty obvious : if you automate grouping, you remove the social aspect of grouping. That's pretty much self-obvious.

I'll tell you an even bigger reality : automated grouping sucks even more. It led to a massive nosedive in the community. It was called before, it was noticed after, and it's only making a comeback because of lazyness, which was the reason it was born to begin with.
Even Blizzard recognized that it damaged the social network after the fact.

What is social about spamming "hunter LFG HC FoS" in chat? Is that the community experience you are defending here, having to spam that until you get a reply? As I said earlier, the 'community aspect' of forming manual groups is overblown.

[Alkizon]

I don't think the Dungeon Finder tool is necessarily a problem. I think cross-realm LFD is what causes the issue where you play with random people you will most likely never see again. It completely removes the social aspect because you have no incentive to be social with someone you don't know and will likely not get to know ever.

Right, it's not that LFG itself is wrong, but design behind one, which moved at wrong direction.

If in fact, then of course search was in WotLK, this "scamp" already knew how to form cross-realm groups, and that was bad, but it didn’t teleport anyone anywhere, which is good... I see here a little different problem, they don't have that "old one" seach, and new one is too different (has to be cut at least in half of all, that belong to it).

...but since I don't play either Classic or BC Classic and I don't think I'll play WotLK Classic (well, I don't like their layers, they "nervous" me, but they probably won’t change their decision regarding it), I guess I don't have right to vote for anything.

As for destruction/politeness of community, this is separate theme, and it's quite clear that LFG-tool alone is something insufficient for its destruction, and here we should first of all talk about organization of game world in general and servers in particular. But, as I already said, we can talk about last a lot and for a long time and preferably in another topic, this one is too narrow.

[sam86]

Please explain how the dungeon finder and tokens ruined your personal experience at all. You don’t have to use either service to causally play the game.

for LFG: simple, no one gives a f8ck anymore about anyone, u are no longer a human player, but a random npc to do dungeon and done, if they tomorrow morning give actual ai companion half of ppl won't notice because how souless dungeon runs are now
for token: literally blizz own employees (I think was vice manager of wow or something) was selling boosts in his twitch stream, again now u are expected to be already high geared ready to do anything, by buying boosts from blizz higher ups using tokens

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Do you even think before you speak? Because I seriously doubt you do and its something you should start doing...

how exactly is ur answer contributing anything, if it isn't just pure insult?

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lol best math ever
3.3 was like 11 months or sth like that
while every patches together where like 12-13 months or so

so yeah 3.3 was around 50% of wotlk

and u played entire 3.3? most ppl didn't
for me i did but because mid it a lot of rl friends decided to play wow and i had to guild manage everything, if they didn't decide to play i'd mostly stopped after done icc and some pvp

[crusadernero]

Well, it's a MMO. Playing with people is the whole point. If you automate grouping and remove the need to communicate, then you're just left with a solo game with subscription and bad AI.

im leveling a warlock in classic BC right now. From the dungeons i've done, its been toggling myself on the tool+spam chats. After the runs, everyone goes each on theyre own.

But - out in the world? I group up all the time with people and stay in party with them for a long time. Often it starts with helping out or clear 1 quest, before you know it we have done lots of quests throughout a zone. We do quests we both have, we help eachother with quests only one have etc.

I think the world, especially classic EK/K, and how its buildt up does a much greater job in bringing people together than dungeons do. And I think we forget that.

[sam86]

You, and this kind of attitude is exactly what's wrong with WoW. The "I don't like it, it should be removed from the game" crowd is the problem. Same goes for the "I hate flying crowd".

how exactly is something 100% personal related to something 100% social!?
if u walk or fly in-game u using ur own toon, u not using anyone else, heck ppl can and do fly around u while u aren't while lvling for example
on other hand, to go a dungeon u actually need other ppl, u can't do that solo, so LFG effecting how u do dungeon is something out of UR control
easy example back in TBC some hcs required flying to go to stone, since it costed a lot many ppl (specially alts) didn't have flying but as long just 2 in ur team have it u can do the dungeon np

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I don't think the Dungeon Finder tool is necessarily a problem. I think cross-realm LFD is what causes the issue where you play with random people you will most likely never see again. It completely removes the social aspect because you have no incentive to be social with someone you don't know and will likely not get to know ever.

agree, u expressed it better than me

[NineSpine]

What are we talking about here when using the word "classic"? Theres already a big difference between classic(Vanilla) & WotLK in many regards.

Should it have flying? If yes, why? Classic didnt have it. Or are we counting BC into the word "classic" ?
Should it have dual spec? Why? "Classic" didnt have it.
Should it have achivs? "classic" didnt have it.

Thats just a couple of examples, and theres many more to pick from when comparing WotLK to classic(Vanilla) or even BC.

This isn't a museum. They threw that idea out a long time ago. This is "WoW for people who want an old school MMO".

[dragonflight10]

[QUOTE=gunnmen01;53759461]

No, I still mental beat my stupid a88 for how 'happy' i was for LFG, and then see myself how it destroyed wow social
No, if anything i wish it to be REMOVED from retail, i won't sign for random dungeon at 2am but screw it i want the M part of MMO back and remove LFG will help a LOT

I'm old player. i know that even as tank once u cross the crowded hours u can't do ur daily hc, but the price is too high, i also recall ppl actually caring and talking to each others, something that lfg destroyed then came token to bury it
I want both LFG and token to be removed from wow and never return, want to do ur hc? log 8 pm not 3 am.

You, and this kind of attitude is exactly what's wrong with WoW. The "I don't like it, it should be removed from the game" crowd is the problem. Same goes for the "I hate flying crowd".

Exactly this

this crowd is very vocal, these forums are filled with them
They have this unreasonable fantasy that they want blizz to cater to.

I guarantee you most of them have severe mental health disorders, because no normal person will ask constantly for stuff on a forum for a video game.

[NineSpine]

Good example of a game with a RDF.. like.. from start to finish from the whole thing too. So, we can conclude it isn't the issue then.

What is an RDF?

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Wait a minute, so you think the fact that it takes so long to make a group this makes it better? So when someone leaves in your group, you admit that it is kills a ton of your time in game. Wouldn’t it be better to, you know, have that replacement instantaneously with the dungeon finder? Lol.

I’m legit scratching my head at this logic.

I didn't say it is better. In fact, I specifically said it doesn't always work and has other side effects. I'm describing the goal of the design principle.

[crusadernero]

This isn't a museum. They threw that idea out a long time ago. This is "WoW for people who want an old school MMO".

What idea? If WotLK truly is for the old school mmo crowd, then dont have dual spec there. Or several other QoL features.

Also, again, those that want to play WotLK doesnt automatically want to play classic or bc. I bet theres lots of ppl out there who have waited for wotLK and couldnt give a rats ass about classic or bc.

[sam86]

What idea? If WotLK truly is for the old school mmo crowd, then dont have dual spec there. Or several other QoL features.

they don't have dual spec at launch

[Royru]

they don't have dual spec at launch

Excuse me, what?

[crusadernero]

they don't have dual spec at launch

But it wil be a feature during WotLK? Guess i've missed that.

They will have dual spec, but more restrictive. Whatever that means. lol

[Adam552]

LFD used to be known as the sit in Stormwind/Orgrimmar all day and queue for dungeons MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE RP GAME

[Twelveplay]

Please gief Dungeon Finder , ty BB ! U can still make your LFG groups even with dungeon finder and reserve all your stuff . I dunno what the fuss is about. If u dont like Dungeon Finder just don't que on it and make your group on LFG or World or whatever to reserver stuff.

[Loveliest]

LFD used to be known as the sit in Stormwind/Orgrimmar all day and queue for dungeons MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE RP GAME

All I remember before LFD is ppl whispering me 24/7 to tank for them. Not sure that made me feel like I was playing an "MMO RPG".
We raided 10m and 25m so that was the closest to MMO, not the dungeon experience.

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No, the logic is pretty obvious : if you automate grouping, you remove the social aspect of grouping. That's pretty much self-obvious.

I'll tell you an even bigger reality : automated grouping sucks even more. It led to a massive nosedive in the community. It was called before, it was noticed after, and it's only making a comeback because of lazyness, which was the reason it was born to begin with.
Even Blizzard recognized that it damaged the social network after the fact.

I remember in Wrath, later on, ppl jumped at gear score because it was an efficient way to judge you and make things fast. You can be social if you want, you won't be social if you don't want.
M+ is living proof of this on retail. Ppl have to make their own groups. But how many ppl befriend others after a run? Almost nobody wants that and I myself don't understand why. Those who do, do, no matter the tools.

[Tonkaden]

''People need to realize this is 2022, people want easier accessibility.''

Then thats why you have Retail. Thats for you Casuals who have constant limited time. You lot of player types are the only ones upsets of this, no one else.

This is one of the most silly, asinine posts ive ever read on MMO-Champ rofl!

You do realize that a majority of classic players raid log right? The raids are piss easy. There is nothing to do. We log on, clear SSC / TK, we log til the next week. We log on, clear MT / Hyjal then we log til next raid. There is nothing hardcore about classic at all. Classic is about as casual as it gets my friend.

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Then maybe it's because your server has very little amount of players and thats why it takes forever for you to get a full group

You'd be incorrect. Im on Mankrik and there are struggles getting full groups. Go try to do a BRD lol. There are like 1-2 groups of each dungeon going max and Mankrik has over 10k players.

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Nah removing it is a good choice. LFD and LFR were mistakes that permanently damaged the game.

This is a very uninformed take. LFD didnt ruin the game. LFR and the watered down raid pool did. Once LFR was introduced, there was hardly a reason to be in a guild anymore. That was the transition line of being in a community of like minded players to just being able to sit around , hit a button, and get in a raid (even if it was dogshit easy). Then follow this up with WoWs current tool where you could queue up, people could invite you based on ilvl, and that was a wrap. The only thing you really needed a guild for was mythic and thats the .0001% of players.

Im really glad blizz is leaning towards putting in some sort of system. What they put in will be better than Bulletin LFG.

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What are we talking about here when using the word "classic"? Theres already a big difference between classic(Vanilla) & WotLK in many regards.

Should it have flying? If yes, why? Classic didnt have it. Or are we counting BC into the word "classic" ?
Should it have dual spec? Why? "Classic" didnt have it.
Should it have achivs? "classic" didnt have it.

Thats just a couple of examples, and theres many more to pick from when comparing WotLK to classic(Vanilla) or even BC.

Youre arguing semantics. A majority of people , including the devs, use the word classic to describe the old era which is Vanilla Classic, TBC Classic, and now Wrath Classic. Don't be obtuse man.

[NineSpine]

What idea? If WotLK truly is for the old school mmo crowd, then dont have dual spec there. Or several other QoL features.

Also, again, those that want to play WotLK doesnt automatically want to play classic or bc. I bet theres lots of ppl out there who have waited for wotLK and couldnt give a rats ass about classic or bc.

Sure, and those people will play for two weeks and leave. Nostalgia players don't stick around. If Classic or TBC Classic didn't interest you, WoTLK isn't going to hold your attention either. You'll have a couple of weeks of a good time and then the servers will be left to the crowd that likes old school MMOs.

[Nehezbegar]

If someone doesnt want RDF, go vanilla era and leave Wotlk for Wotlk fans.

[NineSpine]

If someone doesnt want RDF, go vanilla era and leave Wotlk for Wotlk fans.

The nostalgia players would be long gone before the patch that would have the RDF in it anyway. It's a moot point.