Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Gorsameth]

You're arguing pro-Trump here. A strong way to impede Trump is to ruin Russia as much as possible, which is exactly what Democrats are doing. But you want them to stop doing that.

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To be fair, from a Russian PoV 20k or even 120k isn't that much. Putin's beloved USSR lost millions of troops during the WW2, so rest assured he's willing to lose a million for a victory over "the West".

Bodies is not the problem, equipment is.

[Draco-Onis]

It's not what about the US wants. When you say that you legitimize the Russian position that this is a conflict between the US and Russia. It's not. This is a conflict between Russian delusions of empire and everyone else.

Biden and several senators including a democrat on Fox news have made similar statements. There's no take backsies in politics and some are not even bothering and saying it out loud proudly.

There is a carrot, the carrot is always there. The carrot is in the simple fact that waging war is costly, politically and economically. Stopping right now improves the political climate and actually would allow Russia to open talks with Ukraine, EU, US etc. It's much harder to call for talks while you're bombing children and raping women, furthermore it just saves money, resources, fuel, etc.

If Putin had a shred of fucking sanity left the reasonable thing to do would be to ask for a full armistice with 4 way peace talks US-EU-Ukraine-Russia.

They already have sunk cost there's no benefit politically because Putin would look weak and be ashamed turning tail. We call for talks while bombings and raping women happen all the time. You are talking about saving things that are irrelevant compared to what they have already invested. The US and the EU have not given any incentive or guarantees that would entice Putin.

[Yunru]

Roflmao:
https://twitter.com/TetyanaWrites/st...42621734060035

Now that is pure ukraine trolling.

[Cynep]

Oh yea that's me totally pro-Trump /s

You have zero evidence that Ukraine is going to do anything for democrats, polling shows near indifference. Foreign policy hasn't decided an US election in forever no reason to start now.

I said Russia, not Ukraine. Ukraine doesn't impact USA elections, Russia does, one of major political figures in USA is an open ally of Russia. Therefore hurting Russia weakens domestic power of said figure and benefits Democrats.

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It's just not the same when you're not fighting Nazis, though. And while I don't see Putin losing a million in this war (yeah, my track record's been "mixed" on this whole war) there's a big difference between losing a million stopping the worst force of evil in the last 100 years, and losing 100k against a much smaller country just minding its own business.

Which is more embarrassing: wiping on Mythic Anduin, or failing to complete a +2 in the time limit?

You're right. It would be unthinkable for Russia plus "republics" and Crimea to lose a war against Ukraine minus "republics" and Crimea. That's why Russia isn't invading Ukraine, Russia is defending against entire NATO by this preemptive special operation in Ukraine. To save the motherland, even a million won't be too much.

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He may be, but those around him? Their families? How many will accept: your son died in an accident, not in Ukraine, so no compensation for you. Also if he wants to well and truly fuck russia's demographics for generations to come as well as cause a huge brain drain then that's the way to do it.

Yeah but it won't be families of people around Putin, it will be some serfs from 5000 km away, nobody asks their opinion. When Vladier comes back, ask him to explain detailed connotation of the word "democracy" within modern Russian culture.

[Breccia]

You're right. It would be unthinkable for Russia plus "republics" and Crimea to lose a war against Ukraine minus "republics" and Crimea. That's why Russia isn't invading Ukraine, Russia is defending against entire NATO by this preemptive special operation in Ukraine. To save the motherland, even a million won't be too much.

Did Russia just not see what the US did in Vietnam? Because what you're saying, sounds a lot like what the US did in Vietnam.

[Cynep]

Bodies is not the problem, equipment is.

They're already (allegedly) using WW2 equipment in Ukraine, until those stockpiles run dry, they'll fight, fits the military doctrine. It's funny Ukraine has better tech than Russia now, I personally didn't think it would happen.

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Did Russia just not see what the US did in Vietnam? Because what you're saying, sounds a lot like what the US did in Vietnam.

If I understand you correctly - different mindset. Lost lives are less horrible culturally over here. I'm part Russian so I'm not immune too, even though I understand it intellectually.

Edit: I mean, anti-war protests will be much weaker in Russia. What really can topple Putin is if others perceive him as weak.

[Breccia]

Lost lives are less horrible culturally over here.

Not that different. The people in the US pushing hard for war with Vietnam did not seem to care much about other people's children they were sending to the war (it was a war, I don't care if it was declared or not) the same way Putin doesn't seem to care. Only difference is they couldn't murder people to get re-elected.

[Iphie]

Edit: I mean, anti-war protests will be much weaker in Russia. What really can topple Putin is if others perceive him as weak.

Out of curiosity, and to see if I'm getting the russian mindset, getting beat by Ukraine would be weakness, yes? But would escalating also be seen as weakness? I mean can't beat Ukraine without escalation so how strong is this leader then, kinda thing? Doesn't he sooner or later end up in a situation where he will be perceived as weak no matter what he does?

[KrayZ33]

Not that different. The people in the US pushing hard for war with Vietnam did not seem to care much about other people's children they were sending to the war (it was a war, I don't care if it was declared or not) the same way Putin doesn't seem to care. Only difference is they couldn't murder people to get re-elected.

Not saying I agree with that mindset or whatever:

But the military in the US is and was, afaik, 100% made out of volunteers.
The Russian Military is made up with 50% conscripts. (not sure how likely it is for them to end up at the front line)

It's obviously a degenerate way of thinking, but I wouldn't be suprised if a lot of people said "well, it's their job" - if they don't want to fight for their country, they shouldn't have volunteered

[Breccia]

But the military in the US is and was, afaik, 100% made out of volunteers.

The US drafted for Vietnam.

[KrayZ33]

Not sure if you know much about Vietnam, but there was this thing called the draft…

Oh they did? nvm then.

[PhaelixWW]

Oh they did? nvm then.

Well, the military was 25% draftees and 75% volunteers, so it's still lower than Russia, but yeah.

[Iphie]

The Russian Military is made up with 50% conscripts. (not sure how likely it is for them to end up at the front line)

Officially they have a 0% chance of ending up anywhere outside of russia as that is prohibited by law if I have understood it correctly, practically there's a lot of conscripts not coming home.

[PhaelixWW]

Officially they have a 0% chance of ending up anywhere outside of russia as that is prohibited by law if I have understood it correctly, practically there's a lot of conscripts not coming home.

Conscripts in Russia can definitely be sent out of Russia; they're just normally trained for at least a few months first.

[Iphie]

Conscripts in Russia can definitely be sent out of Russia; they're just normally trained for at least a few months first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Russia

Conscripts are generally prohibited from being deployed abroad

I know they can be sent outside during a war, which this isn't officially according to putin, so maybe I should have said: 'Unless it's war.'.

[Draco-Onis]

I said Russia, not Ukraine. Ukraine doesn't impact USA elections, Russia does, one of major political figures in USA is an open ally of Russia. Therefore hurting Russia weakens domestic power of said figure and benefits Democrats.

Again zero evidence that it's true, domestic issues like abortion and the economy drive votes not hurting Russia. Biden's temporary bump in the poll was just that temporary, abortion may give him a boost but Russia's effect may as well be zero. That's because when it comes to foreign policy both political parties are nearly identical and last but not least if it was hurtful Trump would have received less votes not more in the last election.

[KrayZ33]

I don't understand how the Russian Army can operate as a whole.. It kinda shows how weak it is right now, but I just don't understand how it's *supposed* to work.

They don't have sergeants (or rather, not even remotely enough).
Since the average time a Russian soldier has served is 4 years... I just don't understand how their units can have any kind of cohesion or hierachy if a high ranked officer isn't present or constantly barking orders.

I mean... consider this. You are in a combat situation and the guy next to you might outrank you and give you orders, but he has only like.. 1 year of experience (which is still more than you have) and you are both shitty human beings because the only reason why you are in the army in the first place is because you "like" the hostile and psychotic enviroment it' provides, considering how *infested* the russian army is with bullying. 40% of all deaths among servicemen in "peace times" are suicides - imagine that... and those are the official numbers from Russia, a country that thinks "death by freezing" is the correct way to spell "alcohol related deaths".

Compare that to western armies where you have (most likely) someone with like 10-15 years of service, and experience, or more important, someone actually being trained to do this, telling you what to do.

Not to mention the lack of trust the whole system has in Russia.

Who would follow orders correctly in such an army?

[Santti]

Apparently, the orcs are barely listening to orders anymore, and have even been dakka'ing their own vehicles, so they couldn't be moved to the front lines.

[Unholyground]

By the end of June this will all be a distant memory just like all the covid restrictions.

[PhaelixWW]

By the end of June this will all be a distant memory just like all the covid restrictions.

Why have one bad take per post when you can have two, eh?

Saved for posterity...