It is Time to Ban WoW Addons

[Iain]

Because your question makes no sense as there is no connection between the two. Toxicity isn’t a gameplay feature. It isn’t designed into the game. That’s absolutely ludicrous to even start going down that conversation because it’s meaningless.

Just because I said addons like this can breed toxicity doesn’t instantly mean toxicity is now a part of a game’s design and now we must compare it to gameplay features. That’s ridiculous.

You can't solo dungeons and raids so you have to be able to at least convince players to play with you. If you're then alienating them by hectoring people over their performance beyond what they're willing to tolerate, then you're not able to progress in the game anymore.

Being social is part of the game's design, keeping players in the dark about whether what they're doing is optimal or not, isn't really.

[Relapses]

But that’s the entire point. The addons make fights easier, blizzard wants to make the fights hard, they make the fights more difficult specifically because of the addons, people have to make new addons in order to make those fights easier.

Keep rinse and repeating and you get bloated overwhelming boss designs that are impossible without them.

Blizzard makes a conscious effort to make encounters more mechanically complex/difficult to design WA/add-ons around -- I'm saying they can stop trying to outsmart add-on developers by making increasingly more complex encounters. You can have a mechanically complex encounter that doesn't require a boatload of WAs to play properly. (WoD had a few pretty good examples: Mythic Gorefiend and Mythic Blast Furnace come to mind.)

[ablib]

How many threads do we need on this? Especially one with a poll that we already know what the consensus will be, before even voting.

[Relapses]

How many threads do we need on this? Especially one with a poll that we already know what the consensus will be, before even voting.

There's a blip in the community about add-ons at the moment because FFXIV took a hardline stance against them and players love to pit WoW against this game. (ie, anything FFXIV does that WoW doesn't do is because FFXIV's developers have a better line of communication with its playerbase.) I doubt we'd be talking about it if FFXIV hadn't recently made a move in this direction.

[A Chozo]

How many threads do we need on this? Especially one with a poll that we already know what the consensus will be, before even voting.

at least the pool results show that people still have some sense here. It's ridiculous seeing people like OP and Royu thinking that removing all addons altogether is a move

[jeezusisacasual]

As someone who thinks raiding is not a good point of wow i think they should scale back the complex mechanics that demand an add-on in general. One of the reasons why i absolutely hate raiding ( despite it taking alot more time and prep then mythic plus but hey 6 item levels is worth it! ) is the arms race of having add-ons and a desire to not look up fights before i do them. I mostly tank and i refuse to see how a fight operates i want a fresh experience which most of the wow raiding community does not want so i refuse to be apart of it along with doing mythic dungeons gives better then heroic raid loot anyway.

This is another reason why i play FF14 when i break from WoW since its far more casual friendly and very close to the gear power in general. Does it remove the want to or willing nature of raiding? i dont know as i dont like raiding.

[Royru]

Blizzard makes a conscious effort to make encounters more mechanically complex/difficult to design WA/add-ons around -- I'm saying they can stop trying to outsmart add-on developers by making increasingly more complex encounters. You can have a mechanically complex encounter that doesn't require a boatload of WAs to play properly. (WoD had a few pretty good examples: Mythic Gorefiend and Mythic Blast Furnace come to mind.)

The point is though, the way they are making these encounters “more complex” specifically has to be made “more complex” while also having the addons in mind. If they just tried to make them more complex and “stopped trying to outsmart the addon devs” and the fight they designed got “outsmarted by an addon” then that fight is a cake walk.

Just saying “well just make more complicated fights” is a silly thing to say considering that’s the whole issue.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Add-ons remain one of the best parts of wow compared to other games, so no!

[Royru]

at least the pool results show that people still have some sense here. It's ridiculous seeing people like OP and Royu thinking that removing all addons altogether is a move

I didn’t say that. I said removing all combat addons if possible would be the move, but if the only way to do this is through removing other addons then so be it. Also I like how you’re ignoring the fact the you got caught in a contradiction.

[Eon Drache]

Let me keep ElvUI and I'm fine. I have dbm but dont actually use it. I have WA but the only thing I use it for is tracking my pre raid buffs and the console in Gambit. The only time Ive ever felt I needed the addons was for archimonde in WoD.

[jeezusisacasual]

Let me keep ElvUI and I'm fine. I have dbm but dont actually use it. I have WA but the only thing I use it for is tracking my pre raid buffs and the console in Gambit. The only time Ive ever felt I needed the addons was for archimonde in WoD.

That was the fight that killed my desire to raid, i got my mount and just fucked off without even telling my guild at the time. That fight made me really really really hate raiding.

[A Chozo]

I didn’t say that. I said removing all combat addons if possible would be the move, but if the only way to do this is through removing other addons then so be it.

Aye, fuck, kill addons because you don't like to install weak auras to get 11/11 mythic

Go ahead my dudes - I myself don't use addons to get my seasonal AotC but I have enough awareness and empathy to understand that removing all addons or even just addons in combat would simply piss off a bunch of people and change almost nothing.

[gunnmen01]

Wow another post about Blizzard should get rid of something because someone doesn't like it. Get over yourself, not everyone plays the game exactly like you do.

[Relapses]

The point is though, the way they are making these encounters “more complex” specifically has to be made “more complex” while also having the addons in mind. If they just tried to make them more complex and “stopped trying to outsmart the addon devs” and the fight they designed got “outsmarted by an addon” then that fight is a cake walk.

Just saying “well just make more complicated fights” is a silly thing to say considering that’s the whole issue.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying here. It's okay for add-ons to exist and it's okay for Blizzard to design around add-ons existing. Fights aren't necessarily cake-walks just because an add-on or weakauras exists (see: Halondrus). They should focus on making these types of encounters instead of shit like Mythic Jailer which is just, honestly, kind of annoying.

[Leyre]

Can you dimwits that have never touched xiv raiding with a ten foot pole not make comments about it? It makes you look stupid.
Every raider, every, single, one uses at the bare minimum ACT and likely a lot of other QoL plugins.

Mr Happy doesnt, and he was in the DRS world race, Rin also doesnt, unless he's using his facecam to hide it

[Woggmer]

You're gonna have to be specific and cherry pick which addons to remove.. Removing EVERY SINGLE addon will upset a lot of people, even those who aren't even raiders or pvpers.

Though I doubt it'll come to that, since Blizz can look at some addons and make their own version of said addons since most people won't have them.

[Royru]

Aye, fuck, kill addons because you don't like to install weak auras to get 11/11 mythic

Go ahead my dudes - I myself don't use addons to get my seasonal AotC but I have enough awareness and empathy to understand that removing all addons or even just addons in combat would simply piss off a bunch of people and change almost nothing.

It doesn't take a doctorate in psychology to come to the conclusion that you're clearly lying here lol.

[Zalraki]

Definitely get rid of combat addons. I literally saw the dungeon journal for Sepulcher with huge amount of boss abilities and went "Nah, can't be arsed with remembering all that".

The more addons, the more complex Blizzard has to make the mechanics. It's as simple as that

[ashblond]

yes, which is why most fights don't get insta-solved by addons - you still need the skill to do the mechanic.

Or maybe you do know of an addon that's carrying players around - if so, post it here so we can get free CE to all guilds.

You are keeping repeating the same thing that addons don't carry mythic players around, while nobody says addons alone do so.

But why do you think all WF mythic raiders using combat addons and codes? to make things more complicated and harder? ofc not, they make things simpler and easier.

There is no point to deny this because that's just illogical and stupid.

- - - Updated - - -

The complaints WF raiders have about the escalation of add-on/WA complexity is more of an encounter design issue than an "add-ons exist" issue as the OP has suggested repeatedly. Blizzard can design encounters which don't require an entire suite of full-time WA authors to be on standby.

What you just said directly contradicts what Ion said.

Ion: Design change because of addon issue.

You: Addon exist because of encounter design.

LOL. You mistake causes and consequences. It is just ridiculous.

[Royru]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying here. It's okay for add-ons to exist and it's okay for Blizzard to design around add-ons existing. Fights aren't necessarily cake-walks just because an add-on or weakauras exists (see: Halondrus). They should focus on making these types of encounters instead of shit like Mythic Jailer which is just, honestly, kind of annoying.

And what I'm telling you is that this is just a ridiculous thing to say. This is on par with "Oh inflation is going up? Let's just stop printing money fellas"

The fact of the matter is when they are designing fights around addons, the fights will in turn be almost impossible without them if not absolutely terribly difficult. Imagine Halondrus without addons, that's the point.