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  1. #161
    Guess there is nothing to do so people complain

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    Demonic blood does NOT prevent you from using Light(or Void). We have examples of how the demons themselves use the Light.
    If you're referring to the Nathrezim/Dreadlords, they're masters of deception and will join the ranks of any cosmology. It was confirmed from a book that was found in Revendreth. Source

    There isn't any explanation on why the green Orcs can't or haven't used the Light. Even if you say, "Well they were void priests in Shadowmoon and it's canon in the Chronicles" Fair enough, but even the Undead had examples of why they could use the Light, but it came at the cost of injuring themselves. Where's the explanation of how Orcs can wield the Light? The Mag'har? They're from an alternate universe where the Draenei practically took over the planet and subjugated them to serve the Light.

    I could understand why Orcs became Mages because they studied under Blood Elves, but if that was the case, they could've become priests as far back as Cata. Why wait until NOW to decide to give them the option to be priests? Is it because of the Sunwell's restoration that they could learn from Blood Elves by being near it? Did they pick it up because of Calia Menethil?

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    If you're referring to the Nathrezim/Dreadlords, they're masters of deception and will join the ranks of any cosmology. It was confirmed from a book that was found in Revendreth. Source

    There isn't any explanation on why the green Orcs can't or haven't used the Light. Even if you say, "Well they were void priests in Shadowmoon and it's canon in the Chronicles" Fair enough, but even the Undead had examples of why they could use the Light, but it came at the cost of injuring themselves. Where's the explanation of how Orcs can wield the Light? The Mag'har? They're from an alternate universe where the Draenei practically took over the planet and subjugated them to serve the Light.

    I could understand why Orcs became Mages because they studied under Blood Elves, but if that was the case, they could've become priests as far back as Cata. Why wait until NOW to decide to give them the option to be priests? Is it because of the Sunwell's restoration that they could learn from Blood Elves by being near it? Did they pick it up because of Calia Menethil?
    No, I meant Shivarra from Magisters' Terrace and Doommaiden from Argus. So yes, green orcs can wield the Light.

  4. #164
    "Unlike other shivarra, Delrissa is classified as a humanoid, not a demon. This may be for gameplay reasons.
    Although technically a humanoid, lore-wise Delrissa is still a demon. How is she capable of using Holy magic remains a mystery." Source

    Saying just two demon NPCs, isn't enough to prove otherwise. The only reason I could think of is that the demon blood inside the Orcs has waned so much that they can use the Light but it can't cure their green skin. Or that the AU Mag'har taught them how to wield the Light because they learned it from the Draenei... or that Calia Menethil knows a method on teaching them to use the Light given her experience as a priestess.

    Anything is better than just saying "Oh because they can" then that would imply that they've always KNEW how to wield the Light and that they could've made Orc Priests way back in the Cata when they were doing class combos all over the place, or even in Legion or BfA. Tauren had a reason how they became paladins and priests, why not Orcs?

    Maybe it might be explained in some short story or some novel or something. The other new class combos, Mage/Rogue Tauren, Priest/Mage/Rogue HM Tauren, Rogue Draenei, and Rogue LF Draenei all seem to make sense to me. Priest Orcs need to convince me otherwise and give a reason why it took them so long to actually wield the Light if they couldn't up until this point.

  5. #165
    I said that we have examples of demons using the Light. It was never said that those affected by the Fel couldn't do it. Or do you have proof that green orcs can't really do that?


    Yes, they could ALWAYS do it, they just weren't interested in it before. Perhaps their relatives, the Mag'hars, were able to convince them.

  6. #166
    Warlocks don't have special animations, but there's still lore considerations which is why the Warlock class isn't being expanded to every race in 10.0 like mages, priests and rogues.

    I've held fast that I don't want to see Draenei wield fel magic for a long time now, but I'd love to play an Eredar Warlock or DH.

    If they can show that distinction in-game, that'd be great. But even then, some combinations like Mag'har Orc Warlocks and DH makes little sense.

    Extended exposure to or use of fel magic would taint their skin tone to green like regular orcs.

    If Blizzard creates fel-corrupted visual effects to the appropriate races, for the sake of both DHs and Warlocks, I'd be fine with Warlocks being available across the board.
    Quote Originally Posted by AZSolii View Post
    "yes, let's piss him off because he loves his long hair. Let us twirl our evil mustaches amidst the background music of honky-tonk pianos! GENIUS!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Culexus View Post
    Yes i hate those sneaky account thieves that come to my house and steal my computer in order to steal some wow money! Those bastards! *shakes fist*

  7. #167
    Pit Lord Beet's Avatar
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    Nah I think it’s smart to do this. Demon Hunters should always be the elves only.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by logintime View Post
    No. Just, no.

    This game has already removed too much of its RPG origins. Let's try and maintain what little is left and which makes each race feel distinct.
    What RPG are you talking about? I often wonder if those who cry "but meh RPG!" have ever actually PLAYED an rpg.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelcryo View Post
    This didn't age well.


    I personally agree with OP. The races made sense when Warcraft still portrayed each race as their own unique thing that occasionally come together to help each other out, but now pretty much every nation lives on top of each other. No-one really has any uniqueness left and as far as lore goes, there's no reason why specific individuals of each race (players) couldn't have gone off to learn from the other races on how to be another class.
    I look at it this way - they spend so much time advancing the gameplay, evolving and changing with the times (for better or WORSE), but are stuck in the mud with some things that made sense 20 years ago, but are horribly outdated now, even from a lore perspective. We even have the PERFECT system in place to allow a cool and fun questline to explain how X race can now be Y class - send them to the legion class halls for training and education. Not only could they do it, they could make it really fun and interesting.

    I dont want WoW or ANY game i play to remain static and rigid purely because "well, thats how we wrote the lore 20+ years ago so its gotta stay that way" - its bad for the game. Yes, they risk frustrating some players, absolutely, but thats ALWAYS the case with every single design decision - from changing demo locks, SV hunters, splitting feral into 2 trees - adding pandas, adding furries, literally every addition or change they make has the potential to piss off SOME players, but imo, the ones who would be pissed off by such a meaningless change are so obsessed with the game, they wont be going anywhere.

    Its funny to me that many ppl swore black and blue they would quit the game if the factions could ever play together, now its widely considered a great change and has for the most part had a very positive reception.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    In no way are you entitled to the 'complete' game when you buy it, because DLC/cosmetics and so on are there for companies to make more money
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Others, including myself, are saying that they only exist because Blizzard needed to create things so they could monetize it.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    I feel like half the people who make posts like this think to themselves "blood elf druid and night elf paladin!" when the reality is, that is a tough pill to swallow when you also introduce Pandaren Demon Hunters, Goblin Paladins and Tauren Rogues.
    Not gonna lie, it's going to feel weird tauren and male draenei doing the shadowstrike animation.

    IMO, I think they should go back to make each class/race combo different, but I also understand that they homogenized them because how absurdly elitist and competitve WoW's community is, to the point of bordering on stupidity.

    I think a middle ground ground could be making the changes just cosmetic (only change names, icons and FX). And even that was a problem a few year ago, arguing about PVP would be confusing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockefellah View Post
    I wouldn't go for all-out with every class/race, but a Cata style expansion fitted in lore would be welcome to make most available.

    I really loved how Tauren Paladin/Priests Sunwalkers was introduced with a couple of Druids reflecting on the horrors they witnessed in Northrend.

    A couple of combinations that are stationed in lore, and that perhaps now the story is ready to introduce them:

    Draenei: Demon Hunter; Rogue; [Why Demon Hunter but not a warlock? A demon hunter is a sacrifice for the greater good, while a warlock is about greed and domination - it won't fit Draenai likewise. An alternative is an Eredar allied race (for the horde) that has warlocks. Why no druid? I don't see a link with animal spirits or even what kind of animals they would shape shift in. An alternative is a Broken allied race (for the alliance) that has druids like the Broken in TBC]
    Dwarf: [Don't see lore reasons to add Demon Hunter or Druid here]
    Gnome: [Don't see lore reasons to add Demon Hunter or Druid here]
    Human: Shaman; Druid;
    Night Elf: Paladin;
    Worgen: Monk (w/o a Pandaren trainer in the starting area; akin to how druid is set up)
    Dark Iron Dwarf:
    Kul Tiran: Paladin:
    Lightforged Draenei:
    Void Elf: Demon Hunter; Paladin;

    Blood Elf: Druid;
    Goblin: Monk;
    Orc: Demon Hunter; Priest;
    Tauren: Mage; Rogue;
    Troll: Paladin;
    Undead: Paladin;
    Highmountain Tauren: Mage; Paladin; Priest; Rogue;
    Mah’Har Orc: Demon Hunter;
    Nightborne:
    Vulpera:
    Zandalari Troll: Warlock
    Just a few notes:
    Worgen: Monk (w/o a Pandaren trainer in the starting area; akin to how druid is set up) They could make that only chose Monk you only can start in Exile's.
    Void Elf: Demon Hunter; Paladin; I don't think they could be those clases, as I already saw that it goes "explody".

    Goblin: Monk; Same as worgen, they could make them forced to start on Exile's. Or they could add a pandaren monk mercenary-style to the starting area. It would n't feel so weird for them to bribe one trainer. (remember, the character player is actually one of the most famous, rich goblins of the isle)
    Undead: Paladin; In theory, they can't. The Light would destroy them.
    Mah’Har Orc: Demon Hunter; They can't. They would stop being maghar.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockefellah View Post
    Indeed Tauren wise its because the player character is seen Bloodhoof Clan. But Grimtotem has no issue with rogues and their tactics of stealth and poison.

    Runetotem Clan is the one who rediscovered the way of the Druid; but went out to teach this to the Bloodhoof Tauren.

    Lore wise it's possible to have Grimtotem Tauren teach Bloodhof Tauren how to be rogues.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Since when are the Highmountain evil?
    He means the Bloodtotem tribe that betrayed Highmountain and reanmed to Feltotem tribe.
    But, as far as I know, we killed each and everyone of them. And I really doubt that if any survivor comes back would be welcome after such betrayal.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    There is a Gnome Druid in Hearthstone.
    Really? which one?

  11. #171
    some combos dont make sense culturally (draenei warlock, goblin paladin), some dont make sense physically (tauren/ogre rogue).
    blizzard can smash anything into their already smashed up game but at this point might as well remove the RPG from the MMORPG.
    Last edited by Aleksej89; 2022-05-12 at 11:53 AM.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderment2 View Post
    Ok? Highborne were excluded from being in the Allaince until they weren't.....

    If Blizzard wanted to add warlock Tauren there's a pretty easy link with the Bloodtotem
    They were excluded the same way Man'ari were excluded from Dreanei. They have opposite views, nad that very views make them hostile.
    There would need to be really good explanations for them being accepted, because both groups betrayed their worlds for the promise of power and became #1 enemy for their respective races for that.

    Highborne are slightly differente, in the sense that Tyrande faction of night elves made all magic users responsible of what Azshara did for her wrong point of view that it was using magic what made elves greedy and seek power in the Legion.
    Last edited by pacotaco; 2022-05-12 at 11:44 AM.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by GothamCity View Post
    I agree. This is especially true since we pretty much see every race with every class on NPCs at some point (except DH).
    uh... No. You don't. There are no blood elf druids as NPCs. There are no goblin paladins or orcs, trolls... the list goes on. What there are is MANY classes that we can't play. Tons have been around since vanilla and many were gathered from all the corners of ever MMO before WoW and every D&D book, every Warhammer story and just about anything Blizzard could put a name to. Everything but one class... Bet you can't guess what that class is. A class that is uber powerful in many fantasy games or is a comic relief. -Depends on the creator.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Zankai27 View Post
    The surviving Bloodtotem are hanging out at Thunder Totem; I could see some of them picking it back up. Sure, they’d be shunned, lorewise, but most warlocks are. (Except for Forsaken, Blood Elves and probably Vulpera)

    I mean, the Nightborne were also nearly brought to ruin by the Legion, had a sect of traitors called Felborne, and they still get to have Warlocks. Let the Tauren play. It’d also give the HMT something distinct from the base Tauren.
    Fair points.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cocomen2 View Post
    Have a "Bad News" for you, they are both already in game(lore), but not yet made to be playable.

    Just look at Doomguard :

    (greenfire theory says that they are possible ancestors to Tauren race, that devolved from their demonic-past, to be peaceful cows)

    Common BABE, give me evil Baine DH, or let him die atleast.
    Aren't those mutated eredar like the wrathguards?

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Fistfighter View Post
    Really? which one?


    Quote Originally Posted by zysis View Post
    uh... No. You don't. There are no blood elf druids as NPCs. There are no goblin paladins or orcs, trolls... the list goes on. What there are is MANY classes that we can't play. Tons have been around since vanilla and many were gathered from all the corners of ever MMO before WoW and every D&D book, every Warhammer story and just about anything Blizzard could put a name to. Everything but one class... Bet you can't guess what that class is. A class that is uber powerful in many fantasy games or is a comic relief. -Depends on the creator.
    There are Troll Paladins in Hearthstone. Followers of Shirvallah.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacotaco View Post
    Aren't those mutated eredar like the wrathguards?
    I don't know where he gets his wild theory from, but these are clearly not Tauren:

    "The ered'ruin long predate Sargeras' betrayal.
    Before Sargeras freed them, the doomguard were the titan's hounds forever enslaved to police the use of arcane magics. Sacrificial magic was considered the greatest violation of life and the doomguard were attuned to instantly punish those who delved into such sorcery. After freeing the doomguard, Sargeras recruited them into the Burning Legion as enforcers and shock troopers."

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Sow the Soil
    That's not strictly a Druid, tho.
    I mean, yeah she does sport a druid tier set, but Druid class minions that feature Gnomes in Hearthstone are exclusively Botanists, not druids.
    Look up Shrubadier, Garden Gnome and Dreampetal Florist.
    Even in the Sow the Soil token cards, you can see she is, actually, sowing the treant seeds and then watching it sprout like a real plant. Not using druid magic, just growing plants.

    I am not against the idea of all race/class combos, I think the game has progressed past the need to limit these customisation choices. But I do not think the Gnome in this card art is supposed to be a Druid.
    Last edited by Fistfighter; 2022-05-12 at 05:05 PM.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Beet View Post
    Nah I think it’s smart to do this. Demon Hunters should always be the elves only.
    Demon Hunters should be limited to just Elves and Vulpera.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Fistfighter View Post
    That's not strictly a Druid, tho.
    I mean, yeah she does sport a druid tier set, but Druid class minions that feature Gnomes in Hearthstone are exclusively Botanists, not druids.
    Look up Shrubadier, Garden Gnome and Dreampetal Florist.
    Even in the Sow the Soil token cards, you can see she is, actually, sowing the treant seeds and then watching it sprout like a real plant. Not using druid magic, just growing plants.

    I am not against the idea of all race/class combos, I think the game has progressed past the need to limit these customisation choices. But I do not think the Gnome in this card art is supposed to be a Druid.
    Botanists are potential Druids. That's exactly what i would expect from a Gnome Druid - to come from a scientific pov.
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/High_Botanist_Freywinn

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodbayne View Post
    Snip
    Just to let you know, hearthstone is kinda meta. It exists in WoW, we've seen npcs play it, and they "know" it's fiction. Arguing that something exists in Hearthstone and therefore it should be considered WoW canon is kinda like taking a HotS skin and saying it's WoW canon.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Botanists are potential Druids. That's exactly what i would expect from a Gnome Druid - to come from a scientific pov.
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/High_Botanist_Freywinn
    Ok that makes a lot of sense. You could argue Goblins have the same role, with the Dendrologist minion from HS.

    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Just to let you know, hearthstone is kinda meta. It exists in WoW, we've seen npcs play it, and they "know" it's fiction. Arguing that something exists in Hearthstone and therefore it should be considered WoW canon is kinda like taking a HotS skin and saying it's WoW canon.
    To be fair, HS does a lot of cool stuff with the Warcraft universe, because they aren't limited by having to 3D model. A gnome paladin ? sure, why not. Gnomes are Priests of Light, and Gnomes are fierce warriors, why cannot there be some gnome paladins?
    Female kobolds? well there's obviously female kobolds in Warcraft lore, but noone ever bothered making a 3D model for them. But drawing a picture of one is easy, so of course HS has female kobolds.

    Hearthstone stretech the lore of Warcraft in believable direction. It naturally adds to the world building. And I would argue they do it way more tactfully than WoW does sometimes. (Shadowlands, duh)

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