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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Okay let's try this again. I do 10 dungeons a week approximately. 8 on my main and 1 on my blood dk 1 on my prot pally I juse don't currently have time for more. If Locks for example could be tanks that would 8 more runs that would have a tank available for them and 8 more runs that another dps player could be in instead of sitting in queue. I know quite a few other current dps players who do the same thing.
    What makes you so certain it wouldn't just result in one tank player switching to Warlock, leaving the total number of tanks available unchanged? There's no reason to assume current WL players would change. They could have been playing a tank for years if they wanted to.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    What makes you so certain it wouldn't just result in one tank player switching to Warlock, leaving the total number of tanks available unchanged? There's no reason to assume current WL players would change. They could have been playing a tank for years if they wanted to.
    For the love of all that is holy no they can't because they much like me are playing the classes to do ranged dps in raids. The point is that if evoker was a viable ranged dps class I would switch to playing it instead of lock and then be able to tank for stuff outside of raid. I would still be playing ranged dps in raid. You really have no clue how hard it is to get a tanking spot in an actual good guild.

    I seriously do not understand why you people are so against the third spec being a tanking spec if they are getting another spec. A melee dps spec would be a straight up waste since unless it was overtuned it be competing for maybe 1 to 2 spots since you need a monk dh warrior and usually an enhance shaman out of the 5 to 7 slots allowed to melee including tanks. Depending on your tanking comp and raid encounter you might have literally one spot that isn't one of those 4 to allocate.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Because the problem you are illustrating is absolutely anecdotal.

    The problem isn't coming from Pure DPS lacking tank spec options. That you and the people you know are willing to tank of you had the spec has little bearing on the greater problems.

    Like, what is the point of this? You and your friends aren't indicative of the greater tanking problems that exist in the community at large.

    If I made a point that Gnomes are one of the least popular played races in the game because people don't prefer picking them overall, and you tell me that you know many people who like Gnomes, it doesn't change the facts at large that Gnomes are one the least popular picked race. It doesn't matter if you and your guild are okay with gnomes, because the problem isn't relative to how you or your guild regards Gnomes. It's a much greater issue that contributes to Gnomes being one of the least played races.
    You very clearly don't pug M+ if you don't think there is a problem of tank population. 75% of the people who sign up to the keys I post can't do anything other than dps purely due to their class which makes sense given how prevalent those classes are in both M+ and raid due to tuning.
    Last edited by Xath; 2022-05-15 at 05:08 AM.

  3. #203
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    I’ve heard an argument that two-spec classes is pretty much how Blizzard would be designing classes for foreseeable future. Due to sheer spec bloat, I can see this being a very real possibility. That would also mean that a 3rd spec in either DE or DH isn’t happening.

    Heck, I’d be willing to bet that Blizzard would like to remove specs from some classes if they could.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    You very clearly don't pug M+ if you don't think there is a problem of tank population. 75% of the people who sign up to the keys I post can't do anything other than dps purely due to their class which makes sense given how prevalent those classes are in both M+ and raid due to tuning.
    What are you really trying to prove here? That tanking problems only exist because of pure DPS players?

    I mean I can make up numbers too. 100% of the people who play Pure DPS are unable to tank because they're unwilling to play a tank class. It's not hard to twist the facts here, and it's not getting us any closer to actually talking about a solution to the problem.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-05-15 at 05:16 AM.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    What are you really trying to prove here? That tanking problems only exist because of pure DPS players?

    I mean I can make up numbers too. 100% of the people who play Pure DPS are unable to tank because they're unwilling to play a tank class. It's not hard to twist the facts here, and it's not getting us any closer to actually talking about a solution to the problem.
    Pure DPS classes are extremely wanted in raid and they can't heal or tank outside of raid. Of raiding players probably a good 40% or more of dps play a pure dps class. I'm not saying 100% would tank I'm saying that literally any % is better than 0%. If they are adding a third spec there is zero reason not to add a tanking one instead of yet another melee dps spec that won't see play unless it is massively overtuned or has overtuned unique utility.

  6. #206
    I dont think adding tanks would change anything for queue times etc. ffxiv has it where anyone can be a tank or healer and queue times are just as bad if not worse.
    DRAGONFLIGHT BETA CLUB

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Pure DPS classes are extremely wanted in raid and they can't heal or tank outside of raid. Of raiding players probably a good 40% or more of dps play a pure dps class. I'm not saying 100% would tank I'm saying that literally any % is better than 0%. If they are adding a third spec there is zero reason not to add a tanking one instead of yet another melee dps spec that won't see play unless it is massively overtuned or has overtuned unique utility.
    And it still won't increase the amount of tanks significantly, just spread them out like the last 3 that were added (in before "but those were tank and melee and not tank and caster!").

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Pure DPS classes are extremely wanted in raid and they can't heal or tank outside of raid. Of raiding players probably a good 40% or more of dps play a pure dps class. I'm not saying 100% would tank I'm saying that literally any % is better than 0%. If they are adding a third spec there is zero reason not to add a tanking one instead of yet another melee dps spec that won't see play unless it is massively overtuned or has overtuned unique utility.
    They never said they would add a melee spec either though.

    If they added another spec, I would say it's most likely going to be another Ranged or Healing spec, because the Evoker is designed to be a spellcaster. Dracthyr have been designed to not even wield any weapons in combat, so I doubt they would suddenly add that just to fit in a melee DPS spec. I have my doubts they would add in any melee spec, even if they specifically only talked about not having Tanking.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Pure DPS classes are extremely wanted in raid and they can't heal or tank outside of raid. Of raiding players probably a good 40% or more of dps play a pure dps class. I'm not saying 100% would tank I'm saying that literally any % is better than 0%. If they are adding a third spec there is zero reason not to add a tanking one instead of yet another melee dps spec that won't see play unless it is massively overtuned or has overtuned unique utility.
    If you have such a strong desire to play a class, regardless of how it looks, in order to be able to play ranged dps at a viable level while also being able to tank/heal then just play a Druid.
    Balance Druid has been a viable, an arguably one of the strongest, ranged specs for a very long time now.

    It is something to say that it would be nice to have more options than just the Druid when it comes to being able to rdps and tank in one given class, but that's beside the point you're making.
    And the Evoker (or some new imagined class for the Dracthyr) would still not fill that role particularly well since you'd just be changing from an animal shapeshifter to a scaly-creature. which exhume the same feel, being anthropomorphic animals. So if it's strictly about having a viable rdps being able to tank then we already have the Druid.
    Last edited by Ghanir; 2022-05-15 at 01:24 PM.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Then the fact that you DO tank means you're not exhibiting the same problems that are contributing to the overall demand of Tanks.

    That is my point.

    You're trying to illustrate a problem that doesn't exist; that being it merely isn't convenient for you to tank on your chosen Pure DPS main. This is not the problem with the lack of tanks amongst the community at large.

    You understand this, yet you still want to perpetuate the idea that more tanking specs would increase more tanks because you somehow believe that the problem is significantly tied to your own situation. It is not. The problem exists well beyond the scope of your own anecdotal situation, and we know this because the problem exists amongst all hybrid classes that have the ability to tank and a general unwillingness for other people to swap to a tank.
    I don't think you're understanding the problem he's pointing out though.

    The main issue is that the only people who are capable of tanking are those with melee DPS specs. There's only one class capable of being a ranged DPS and a tank, and the two specs have so little overlap in flavor that it's unlikely somebody who wants to play Boomkin will also be interested in playing a bear.

    They should have introduced a tank spec with this class as it would be the second and only other ranged DPS/tank combination thereby giving people who enjoy playing ranged DPS an option to easily swap to a tanking spec.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    I don't think you're understanding the problem he's pointing out though.

    The main issue is that the only people who are capable of tanking are those with melee DPS specs. There's only one class capable of being a ranged DPS and a tank, and the two specs have so little overlap in flavor that it's unlikely somebody who wants to play Boomkin will also be interested in playing a bear.

    They should have introduced a tank spec with this class as it would be the second and only other ranged DPS/tank combination thereby giving people who enjoy playing ranged DPS an option to easily swap to a tanking spec.
    They know exactly what I'm saying for some reason they are angered by the concept of another tanking spec no idea why

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    I don't think you're understanding the problem he's pointing out though.

    The main issue is that the only people who are capable of tanking are those with melee DPS specs. There's only one class capable of being a ranged DPS and a tank, and the two specs have so little overlap in flavor that it's unlikely somebody who wants to play Boomkin will also be interested in playing a bear.

    They should have introduced a tank spec with this class as it would be the second and only other ranged DPS/tank combination thereby giving people who enjoy playing ranged DPS an option to easily swap to a tanking spec.
    You already made my point though.

    If there is so little overlap between Ranged spellcasting gameplay and Tanking that Boomkins aren't interested in playing a bear, we should be considering giving Tanking specs to the Spellcasting Evoker because..?

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    You already made my point though.

    If there is so little overlap between Ranged spellcasting gameplay and Tanking that Boomkins aren't interested in playing a bear, we should be considering giving Tanking specs to the Spellcasting Evoker because..?
    The boomkins I know not just in my guild but in others consistently play bear outside of raid.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    The boomkins I know not just in my guild but in others consistently play bear outside of raid.
    Sure, and I know Mages who consistently play their tanking alts outside of raid too.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-05-15 at 06:27 PM.

  15. #215
    Blizzard is being arrogant and illogical... If an druid can tank in a bearform why would't a Dracthyr Envoker not be able to do it?

    + They use a mixture of all the aspects powers, understandable the healer spec would be more focused on the green aspect.

    What's stopping them to make a tank spec focused on the black dragonflight? Imagine being a Black Dracthyr flying towards a bunch of enemies landing with some sort of flame eruptions or something, causing area dmg, flame breaths, flame ground eruptions, they could even call the spec Destroyer, Cataclysm or hell even Earth warden... if they wanted to make it obvious this spec would be highly based on Deathwing himself which isn't necessary a bad thing since Death Knights and Demon Hunter are already based of The Lich King and Arthas..

    Blizzard is showing their laziness once again

    As for melee dps a mixture of Black and Bronze would fit quite nicely, Still have flame attacks while also having the ability to move quickly trough time or something, using bronze sand attacks for slows, a true haste based speed dragon fighter with a spear or dual wields idk even just having them attack with their claws as monks use their fists is good enough.

    So much creativity for a class like this and they wasted it on just 2 silly range specs....

  16. #216
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark-Zarupia View Post
    Blizzard is being arrogant and illogical... If an druid can tank in a bearform why would't a Dracthyr Envoker not be able to do it?
    Because dragons can fly and breathe fire, whereas bears can just bite and swipe things with claws up close.

    If I'm a dragon fighting an ogre, I'm flying 50 feet above its head and torching it from afar. If I'm a bear, I have to charge the ogre and fight it toe-to toe. That's the basis of this; Blizzard doesn't view dragons as close-range fighters. I tend to agree.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Sure, and I know Mages who consistently play their tanking alts outside of raid too.
    Stop trying to equate alts to mains. It's incredibly dishonest.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Stop trying to equate alts to mains. It's incredibly dishonest.
    So is pretending you need a tank spec on your Pure DPS main in order to be assed to tank mid level content?
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-05-15 at 10:35 PM.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    So is pretending you need a tank spec on your Pure DPS main in order to be assed to tank mid level content?
    No it's not doesn't matter if it's mid level still can't tank ot as a pure dps class and still need to knock out 8 dungeons a week on main.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    No it's not doesn't matter if it's mid level still can't tank ot as a pure dps class and still need to knock out 8 dungeons a week on main.
    Which is working as intended? I dunno what else to say here.

    Pure DPS blames class design for long wait times in mid level PUGs. News at 11.


    I mean there are plenty of solutions to your problem which don't involve you having to change your spec to tank. Run with a consistent group instead of pugging, for one. You even admit above that you know plenty of boomkins who will tank. Well, run with one consistently 8 times a week on your main, since you don't seem assed to roll a hybrid main yourself.

    Expecting Blizzard to change the game to fix your specific problem, which has clear work arounds, is not a solution. I totally get your sentiment, but it's also incredibly myopic and unrealistic if you expect Blizzard to start adding tank specs to Pure DPS because your PUG wait time for mid level content takes too long.

    You're operating on a solution for a problem that's purely based on confirmation bias. You're playing a Pure DPS class and waiting long PUG times, and you wouldn't mind tanking if you had the choice, therefore you conclude that the problem must be coming from your Class' lack of choice.

    As the saying goes, If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail. Your Pure DPS main is your Hammer.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-05-16 at 08:33 AM.

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