What do you think most Horde characters felt about the Burning of Teldrassil?

[OwenBurton]

lol true

in particular, it's even worse for Thalyssra who was all "oh I'm not like Elisande" to Tyrande, then the literal next expansion is fighting in a world war against them, on the front lines and everything. She had nothing to do or even say to the night elves after the genocide. Like, did she even care about her kin being massacred like that anytime in the expansion? has she actually done anything to help the night elves in any way after the genocide?

instead, she seemed more interested in pursuing a stupid romance with Lor'themar

at least in the SL 9.2 finale dialogue, Lor'themar acknowledges this part of how they still followed Sylvanus after the genocide. At least they had him realise that, saying: "Perhaps, in the end, judgment will come for me as well."

same for some the other leaders (tbf, not all of them would care, like Geya'rah), it's so dumb how they all just followed along with Sylvanus post-genocide, and only did something way later cause she was mean to them and tried to mind control Derek.



b-but she called them all nothing!!!! like omg, that was so evil and terrible and they deserve to be forgiven after being called that, poor things.

No need for the horde to give the night elves any sort of reparations for their involvement in the genocide, heck, the horde are completely fine to keep going into night elf territory and contesting land (as we see in SL book).

I'm sure the horde will also be seeing a personal apology from "all about renewal now" Tyrande, where she'll be sorry about being "too aggressive" over that small genocide matter that was totally only sylvanus's fault and doing.

Well, on the official forums, most of the Horde playerbase was actually very pro-Sylvanas throughout the expansion. And even here, almost 40% of users supported her after she joined the Jailer:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/poll.ph...do=showresults

People are underestimating Sylvanas's popularity - she was far more popular than either Garrosh or Saurfang, and she seems to be the most popular female character in the Warcraft franchise, lots of young female players seem obsessed over her.

[Feanoro]

Well, on the official forums, most of the Horde playerbase was actually very pro-Sylvanas throughout the expansion. And even here, almost 40% of users supported her after she joined the Jailer:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/poll.ph...do=showresults

Best part is, after it became obvious even to Sylvie fans which way Blizz was going with the story, we got the narrative of completely denying the massive Horde fan celebration and joking about Teldrassil for months on end. Why no, Horde fans never approved of it. Right.

The few that spoke out against it from the start were dogpiled and shouted down, with jeers like "X is no REAL Horde fan!" and similar.

It's frankly a fascinating study in group psychology, in cheering the reprehensible to fit in. It also demonstrates how "we followed a genocidal maniac" can and does actually happen.

[Every Pwny]

Best part is, after it became obvious even to Sylvie fans which way Blizz was going with the story, we got the narrative of completely denying the massive Horde fan celebration and joking about Teldrassil for months on end. Why no, Horde fans never approved of it. Right.

Even blizzard was making jokes about it in their cafeteria at the time.

https://twitter.com/ArcaneRatsel/sta...27888059785216

It's interesting only now people changed their minds to say "genocide is bad".

[Feanoro]

Even blizzard was making jokes about it in their cafeteria at the time.

https://twitter.com/ArcaneRatsel/sta...27888059785216

It's interesting only now people changed their minds to say "genocide is bad".

The first official interview on it was to rush to tell Horde fans everything would be fine.

Yet another reason Alliance is in such terrible shape that they have to implement cross faction to avoid bleeding out more customers.

[Stormdash]

I am surprised that during Battle for Azeroth, Blizzard seemed to almost skate over the "elephant in the room". Remember in Mists of Pandaria, there was heavy discontent and internal tension from very early on, with lots of different leaders such as Baine and Vol'jin and even Sylvanas criticizing and resenting Garrosh Hellscream's policies and actions. Vol'jin himself went as far as threaten to literally shoot an arrow through Garrosh's heart, and that was long, long before Theramore and Pandaria.

But in Battle for Azeroth, right after the War of the Thorns and the night elf genocide, most of the Horde leaders and the Horde characters seemed to be fine with the Burning of Teldrassil and everything Sylvanas did. Look how quickly Lor'themar and even Baine Bloodhoof (both of whom had ties with major Alliance characters) and most of the Horde military forces rushed to defend the Undercity at Sylvanas's command without commenting on Teldrassil or anything that just happened in Kalimdor.

Some Horde characters such as Rexxar became even more hostile towards the Alliance during the war than before, not less, even vowing to kill Jaina herself, and most of the Horde army still continued to invade Kul Tiras and attack Stromgarde and fight in places such as Darkshore and Ashenvale against the night elves regardless, remaining loyal to Sylvanas. It is implied that even after Saurfang openly started his revolution, most of the Horde actually remained with Sylvanas (although most of their leaders might have gone with Saurfang).

So what did most of the Horde characters actually think about the Burning of Teldrassil, not just the major leaders and fighters, but for example, the average person in Orgrimmar, Thunder Bluff, Silvermoon and Suramar? What did most tauren and trolls and blood elves and nightborne think about what Sylvanas did? Were they celebratory, or upset, or mostly indifferent for the most part? Why did most Horde characters seem to reel at Garrosh's actions, but seem to openly support those of Sylvanas?

I assume the way most Horde players felt when we learned it would happen but without context - that war is hard and brutal, that there had to be some strategic reason critical to the Horde's success/survival. I mean, I don't think Saurfang was walking through Orgrimmar complaining about it, I'm guessing his venting to Zekhan was an exception not a rule, and even then he didn't actually tell Zekhan anything, the flashbacks were for the viewer's benefit.

Realistically, it's probably the first a lot of laypeople even heard against it was when the allied force marched to the gates of Orgrimmar and Sylvanas abandoned the Horde entirely.

[loras]

I am surprised that during Battle for Azeroth, Blizzard seemed to almost skate over the "elephant in the room". Remember in Mists of Pandaria, there was heavy discontent and internal tension from very early on, with lots of different leaders such as Baine and Vol'jin and even Sylvanas criticizing and resenting Garrosh Hellscream's policies and actions. Vol'jin himself went as far as threaten to literally shoot an arrow through Garrosh's heart, and that was long, long before Theramore and Pandaria.

But in Battle for Azeroth, right after the War of the Thorns and the night elf genocide, most of the Horde leaders and the Horde characters seemed to be fine with the Burning of Teldrassil and everything Sylvanas did. Look how quickly Lor'themar and even Baine Bloodhoof (both of whom had ties with major Alliance characters) and most of the Horde military forces rushed to defend the Undercity at Sylvanas's command without commenting on Teldrassil or anything that just happened in Kalimdor.

Some Horde characters such as Rexxar became even more hostile towards the Alliance during the war than before, not less, even vowing to kill Jaina herself, and most of the Horde army still continued to invade Kul Tiras and attack Stromgarde and fight in places such as Darkshore and Ashenvale against the night elves regardless, remaining loyal to Sylvanas. It is implied that even after Saurfang openly started his revolution, most of the Horde actually remained with Sylvanas (although most of their leaders might have gone with Saurfang).

So what did most of the Horde characters actually think about the Burning of Teldrassil, not just the major leaders and fighters, but for example, the average person in Orgrimmar, Thunder Bluff, Silvermoon and Suramar? What did most tauren and trolls and blood elves and nightborne think about what Sylvanas did? Were they celebratory, or upset, or mostly indifferent for the most part? Why did most Horde characters seem to reel at Garrosh's actions, but seem to openly support those of Sylvanas?

Forsaken: "Ugh, it's just a tree. Why are we making such a fuss over a stupid tree?"
Tauren: "Baine is a spineless bratwurst for allowing Sylvanas this bullshit."
Orc & Troll: "Oh boy, here we go again. Wait, why is everyone seemingly ok with it this time? Damn misandrists."
Blood Elves: "It may have been a mistake to throw in our lot with the Horde... again."
Goblin: "Magical firewood, magical firewood! Now at a discount!"
Pandaren: "We could make a brew out of this."
Zandalari: "Do you seriously wonder why we do not sacrifice our sovereignty to the Horde?"
Nightborne: "Haha die arrogant trash! That's what it feels like to burn!"
Highmountain: "We may have made a mistake."
Mag'har: "YEAH FIRE!"
Vulpera: "I like turtles."

[Eggroll]

No they weren't really. The only one who really opposed Sylvanas was Baine, wasn't he?
The rest was indifferent at best, the blood elves, Forsaken, Orcs, were 100% behind Sylvanas.

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Forsaken: "Ugh, it's just a tree. Why are we making such a fuss over a stupid tree?"
Tauren: "Baine is a spineless bratwurst for allowing Sylvanas this bullshit."
Orc & Troll: "Oh boy, here we go again. Wait, why is everyone seemingly ok with it this time? Damn misandrists."
Blood Elves: "It may have been a mistake to throw in our lot with the Horde... again."
Goblin: "Magical firewood, magical firewood! Now at a discount!"
Pandaren: "We could make a brew out of this."
Zandalari: "Do you seriously wonder why we do not sacrifice our sovereignty to the Horde?"
Nightborne: "Haha die arrogant trash! That's what it feels like to burn!"
Highmountain: "We may have made a mistake."
Mag'har: "YEAH FIRE!"
Vulpera: "I like turtles."

"Spineless bratwurst" made me chuckle a lttle too much...

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Let's not kid ourselves, most Orcs were probably euphoric when they heard of it, and so were most forsaken.

Tauren, Blood Elves and Nightborne were probably horrified.

Trolls and Goblins probably didn't care.

Not really, Blood Elves hold some old grudges against night elves, and nightborne are still butthurt about Tyrande being mean to Thalyssra.

[Zardi]

I'm sure trolls were upset, because the massive carbon footprint of burning a giant tree -along with hundreds of elves- made the sea level rise 0.01 cm, which clearly threatens the Echo Isles.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

No they weren't really. The only one who really opposed Sylvanas was Baine, wasn't he?
The rest was indifferent at best, the blood elves, Forsaken, Orcs, were 100% behind Sylvanas.

Baine didn’t even oppose her until after she started turning on horde members by trying to brain wash forsaken, he was all for the war even wishing he could join Saurfang when he thought he was going to fight in silithus.

[darkoms]

Well, on the official forums, most of the Horde playerbase was actually very pro-Sylvanas throughout the expansion. And even here, almost 40% of users supported her after she joined the Jailer:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/poll.ph...do=showresults

People are underestimating Sylvanas's popularity - she was far more popular than either Garrosh or Saurfang, and she seems to be the most popular female character in the Warcraft franchise, lots of young female players seem obsessed over her.

I'm not sure

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...s-and-her-fans

[Eggroll]

People are underestimating Sylvanas's popularity - she was far more popular than either Garrosh or Saurfang, and she seems to be the most popular female character in the Warcraft franchise, lots of young female players seem obsessed over her.

Quite the opposite. Lots of players are fed up with Sylvanas and never want to see her again.
Even Sylvanas fans hate what the devs have done to her.

Also: she has been shoved down our throats for 3 consecutive expansion headlining her in the xpac release trailer.

What the devs really underestimate is the popularity of night elves in the Alliance. Statistics show that they are equally as popular as humans. Yet the devs treat them like an npc race, as if they had no fans and nobody in the playerbase would be attached to them...
Especially Danuser tries to calm down Sylvanas fans - not so much night elf fans - in his mind, we don't even exist, we are not human to him.

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Baine didn’t even oppose her until after she started turning on horde members by trying to brain wash forsaken, he was all for the war even wishing he could join Saurfang when he thought he was going to fight in silithus.

Thanks for pointing it out, I didnt even know that.

[Lord Pebbleton]

Who would not be against it?? even the most elf hater(me) don't see how this is a good thing.

You'd be surprised. Reddit and Facebook are full of horde players that think fondly of the genocide of Teldrassil. I'm not sure if they are serious or if they just want reactions out of the Alliance though.

[Irian]

in particular, it's even worse for Thalyssra who was all "oh I'm not like Elisande" to Tyrande, then the literal next expansion is fighting in a world war against them, on the front lines and everything. She had nothing to do or even say to the night elves after the genocide. Like, did she even care about her kin being massacred like that anytime in the expansion? has she actually done anything to help the night elves in any way after the genocide?

God this will never not bother me. Literally one of the best written characters in Legion immediately pulls a 180 the moment she can, engaging in a pointless bloodbath of a war on behalf of half of the people who helped her to kill the other half. Worse yet, night elves and nightborne are practically the same race at their core, so the Nightborne leave their bubble to almost immediately witness the complete genocide of their own flesh and blood by the Horde...and choose to join them?

The fact that this is almost never acknowledged makes me think that Blizzard's writers didn't think that hard about it, the character is pretty permanently ruined because of it. She has to be one of the most vile and dislikable characters in lore, and that's coming from someone who currently plays horde.

[Moonrage]

Not really, Blood Elves hold some old grudges against night elves

I never understood the whole Night Elf-Blood Elf feud. Tyrande and Kael'thas were very cordial with one another when they met, and the Night Elves even sent forces to aid Quel'Thalas during the Troll Wars.

and nightborne are still butthurt about Tyrande being mean to Thalyssra.

Well Tyrande ended up being right. Thalyssra didn't become the next Azshara but she did side with one.

[DatToffer]

I am surprised that during Battle for Azeroth, Blizzard seemed to almost skate over the "elephant in the room". Remember in Mists of Pandaria, there was heavy discontent and internal tension from very early on, with lots of different leaders such as Baine and Vol'jin and even Sylvanas criticizing and resenting Garrosh Hellscream's policies and actions. Vol'jin himself went as far as threaten to literally shoot an arrow through Garrosh's heart, and that was long, long before Theramore and Pandaria.

There were many reasons why Garrosh was not welcomed. Several of them were not his fault. Magatha orchestrated a few things that led to hostility towards him. Sylvanas meanwhile started her warchief career as a "hero" that Vol'jin nominated personally.

But in Battle for Azeroth, right after the War of the Thorns and the night elf genocide, most of the Horde leaders and the Horde characters seemed to be fine with the Burning of Teldrassil and everything Sylvanas did. Look how quickly Lor'themar and even Baine Bloodhoof (both of whom had ties with major Alliance characters) and most of the Horde military forces rushed to defend the Undercity at Sylvanas's command without commenting on Teldrassil or anything that just happened in Kalimdor.

It's not that they were fine with it, it's that -as Saurfang said- "Now they will come for us". After that burning, there was no coming back, the Horde had to fight together or the Alliance would keep daddy Wrynn promise to obliterate them. So they couldn't afford to lose Undercity (Well, except they could and they did) or any more territories, really.

Plus an open war would mean an opportunity to settle some long time conflicts (like Warsong Gulch or Bael Modan), but that's just assuming because I don't remember we talk too much about those.

Some Horde characters such as Rexxar became even more hostile towards the Alliance during the war than before, not less, even vowing to kill Jaina herself, and most of the Horde army still continued to invade Kul Tiras and attack Stromgarde and fight in places such as Darkshore and Ashenvale against the night elves regardless, remaining loyal to Sylvanas. It is implied that even after Saurfang openly started his revolution, most of the Horde actually remained with Sylvanas (although most of their leaders might have gone with Saurfang).

I think Rexxar's situation was based on misunderstanding his character. Or straight up ignoring his development ?
Sure he is known for having fought a lot of Kul tirans and killed a Proudmoore. And I may not recall correctly, but killing Jaina's father in War3 felt more like a necessary evil, while in BFA Rexxar seems determined to consider Jaina a threat. Btw I think his dialog also serves to make Jaina look very dangerous and her BFA appearances really show her as obnoxiously OP.

So what did most of the Horde characters actually think about the Burning of Teldrassil, not just the major leaders and fighters, but for example, the average person in Orgrimmar, Thunder Bluff, Silvermoon and Suramar? What did most tauren and trolls and blood elves and nightborne think about what Sylvanas did? Were they celebratory, or upset, or mostly indifferent for the most part? Why did most Horde characters seem to reel at Garrosh's actions, but seem to openly support those of Sylvanas?

There's not much said about this. I think the best glimpses you can get would be during the second siege of Orgrimmar. You can see members of several Horde races discussing the War, Sylvanas, etc. in Razorhill.

I never understood the whole Night Elf-Blood Elf feud. Tyrande and Kael'thas were very cordial with one another when they met

Tyrande and Kael'thas yeah. But that feud in Suramar was more about the soldiers themselves pranking each other. Just because the leaders can stay cordial, doesn't mean their people will all be.

and the Night Elves even sent forces to aid Quel'Thalas during the Troll Wars.

Excuse me what the fuck ? Is that what that piece of dialog between the blood elf and the night elf chasing... San'layn together (I think ?), is about ?

[baskev]

why is this even a question. In game you hear horde charachters say that they think it was bad. Hell even the one who did it with her sanity restored says its bad....

[OwenBurton]

You'd be surprised. Reddit and Facebook are full of horde players that think fondly of the genocide of Teldrassil. I'm not sure if they are serious or if they just want reactions out of the Alliance though.

Which is again somewhat surprising, honestly, as Garrosh was extremely unpopular outside of orc characters, I think, during Mists of Pandaria.

[Moonrage]

Excuse me what the fuck ? Is that what that piece of dialog between the blood elf and the night elf chasing... San'layn together (I think ?), is about ?

Yes, Shandris Feathermoon and Ranger Captain Areiel fought alongside each other 2 or 3 thousand years ago. It was never mentioned which battle it was, but one can assume it was during the Troll Wars, the timeframe fits.

Emmarel Shadewarden, another Night Elf and leader of the Unseen Path, was sent to Quel'Thalas to aid the High Elves against the Troll Wars too. She even fought with the ancestor of the Windrunners.

[Wylyth1992]

I think a main difference between Garrosh and Sylvanas is that Garrosh was an openly proud Orc supremacist, while Sylvanas (seemed) like a Warchief who cared about all the races of the Horde. Plus it's possible that those who stayed loyal were doing so because they were afraid they would be returned to stuff like the work camps, or worse.

[DatToffer]

Yes, Shandris Feathermoon and Ranger Captain Areiel fought alongside each other 2 or 3 thousand years ago. It was never mentioned which battle it was, but one can assume it was during the Troll Wars, the timeframe fits.

Emmarel Shadewarden, another Night Elf and leader of the Unseen Path, was sent to Quel'Thalas to aid the High Elves against the Troll Wars too. She even fought with the ancestor of the Windrunners.

I see. I always considered that an anomaly just to make a blood elf and a night elf discuss something, but they chose to roll with it.