Page 15 of 37 FirstFirst ...
5
13
14
15
16
17
25
... LastLast
  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Loreth88 View Post
    Im not talk about just some quests thats cool, but like indead and orc get new building style etc. mostly they and humans get the attention. Other races are sidekicks of the humans in the alliance faction. They are there, but not really. When we get the kultiran humans why not give vyrkuls instead and the fat human can be a choice for body type. Waste time. Uninteresting subrace. They have so many opportunities to make the races and the story better. In a fantasy game we get humans.
    To make a short version:

    There isn't much left to tell for Dwarves aside from Dark Irons. Without the Dark Irons, the Dwarves lost their main source of conflict. Meanwhile the Dark Irons are actually more interesting than Bronzebeards and Wildhammers.

    They tried to make Gnomes interesting with Mechagnomes, but are pretty much despised by a good chunk of the player base that people can't take them seriously.

    Draenei are interesting, but don't lend much when it comes to stories that doesn't involve them or the Burning Legion. It becomes more apparent with the Lightforge Draenei who haven't done ANYTHING since they joined the Alliance. The AU Draenei are more interesting since they've gone full Light zealots

    Night Elves have a lot going on, but every time the focus shifts on them people will groan and hate them for having so much focus.

    Gilneans only get major focus on the human versions, than the Worgen stuff. They don't have that fear factor of going berserk or losing themselves to the Worgen curse. There was even the heritage armor quest of Tess wanting to be a worgen, but then learns how being Worgen sucks and decides to remain human.

    Pandaren haven't had anything interesting going for them since they first left the turtle, even Aysa Cloudsong and Ji Firepaw are in good terms with each other despite the faction differences.

    Ren'dorei aka Void Elves have some interesting stuff going on, but most of the player base hates their existence and wishes they were high elves.

    Leaving only Humans and Kul'tirans having the most versatile and complex lore out of all the other Alliance races. Seven different kingdoms, each different than the last. It gets even more complex because of the Forsaken being former humans turned undead with free-will. It's less of "We like Humans and build everything around humans," and more like "We literally don't have any ideas on what to do with the other races, so we're just gonna default to humans."

  2. #282
    The job to make alliance get some of the playerbase attention back will be a hard and long journey.

    Lorewise, there are many cities in dire need of rebuilding. I wouldn't mind if Turalyon became the Garrosh of the Alliance, because under Garrosh, horde cities and settlements got revamped with better aesthetics. But we need to know more about him, he was a hero of the Alliance back them, but we don't know how much he changed during this Light vs Dark war.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    To make a short version:

    There isn't much left to tell for Dwarves aside from Dark Irons. Without the Dark Irons, the Dwarves lost their main source of conflict. Meanwhile the Dark Irons are actually more interesting than Bronzebeards and Wildhammers.

    They tried to make Gnomes interesting with Mechagnomes, but are pretty much despised by a good chunk of the player base that people can't take them seriously.

    Draenei are interesting, but don't lend much when it comes to stories that doesn't involve them or the Burning Legion. It becomes more apparent with the Lightforge Draenei who haven't done ANYTHING since they joined the Alliance. The AU Draenei are more interesting since they've gone full Light zealots

    Night Elves have a lot going on, but every time the focus shifts on them people will groan and hate them for having so much focus.

    Gilneans only get major focus on the human versions, than the Worgen stuff. They don't have that fear factor of going berserk or losing themselves to the Worgen curse. There was even the heritage armor quest of Tess wanting to be a worgen, but then learns how being Worgen sucks and decides to remain human.

    Pandaren haven't had anything interesting going for them since they first left the turtle, even Aysa Cloudsong and Ji Firepaw are in good terms with each other despite the faction differences.

    Ren'dorei aka Void Elves have some interesting stuff going on, but most of the player base hates their existence and wishes they were high elves.

    Leaving only Humans and Kul'tirans having the most versatile and complex lore out of all the other Alliance races. Seven different kingdoms, each different than the last. It gets even more complex because of the Forsaken being former humans turned undead with free-will. It's less of "We like Humans and build everything around humans," and more like "We literally don't have any ideas on what to do with the other races, so we're just gonna default to humans."
    Most of this because they don't bother telling a story for that many races, they create bunc of races and they left them alone, its a fantasy there isn't "left to tell storys"

    We can discuss it al day long but it will not matter, we will got a netural expansion they left them more behind

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Loreth88 View Post
    Most of this because they don't bother telling a story for that many races, they create bunc of races and they left them alone, its a fantasy there isn't "left to tell storys"

    We can discuss it al day long but it will not matter, we will got a netural expansion they left them more behind
    Only when an expansion might focus on them, in which case it'll probably be involving the Explorer's League and the Reliquary where we might get a focus between Blood Elves and Nightborne (Based on the fact that Lor'themar and Thalyssra are getting very "close" with each other and that a questline in Zuldazar suggests the Nightborne helping the Reliquary)

    The Explorer's League is... kind of a mess right now. At first it had a focus on Dwarves, but then later on they started to include the cast from the Hearthstone Explorer's League like Reno Jackson and Sir Finley Mrgleton. And knowing they had a whole Hearthstone expansion focused on Dragons and having those guys in the forefront, they're gonna have them featured in Dragonflight.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    Only when an expansion might focus on them, in which case it'll probably be involving the Explorer's League and the Reliquary where we might get a focus between Blood Elves and Nightborne (Based on the fact that Lor'themar and Thalyssra are getting very "close" with each other and that a questline in Zuldazar suggests the Nightborne helping the Reliquary)

    The Explorer's League is... kind of a mess right now. At first it had a focus on Dwarves, but then later on they started to include the cast from the Hearthstone Explorer's League like Reno Jackson and Sir Finley Mrgleton. And knowing they had a whole Hearthstone expansion focused on Dragons and having those guys in the forefront, they're gonna have them featured in Dragonflight.
    I always wondered why the night elves, for such an ancient culture, don't work more with the Explorer's League to uncover their ancient past, as most of the continents were once under their ancestral domain, and even today they have ruins scattered everywhere. Elise Starseeker seems to be the exception, not the norm. Oh, and there was that Lorekeeper Amberwind in Azshara, I think, trying to research night elf ruins.

    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Elise_Starseeker
    "You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    I always wondered why the night elves, for such an ancient culture, don't work more with the Explorer's League to uncover their ancient past, as most of the continents were once under their ancestral domain, and even today they have ruins scattered everywhere. Elise Starseeker seems to be the exception, not the norm. Oh, and there was that Lorekeeper Amberwind in Azshara, I think, trying to research night elf ruins.

    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Elise_Starseeker
    Two things come to mind, one being that the Night Elves aren't interested in the Highborne stuff, they've been closed off for a long time and they didn't accept them until Cata after some negotiations. Yet despite them taking them in, they were still suspicious of them and even Shandris Feathermoon even stated that she was ready to kill them if Tyrande didn't allow it.

    The other reason is that a good chunk of those ancient Highborne runes are under Naga occupation. They're not exactly happy to let landwalkers into their ruins and steal stuff from them. The other remaining night elf ruins are either under occupation of spirits, ogres, corrupted plants, satyrs, kvaldir (based on that one area in Borean Tundra), and sometimes under Horde occupation like Azshara (the zone).

  7. #287
    Train's passed now for making the Alliance v Horde plot interesting, but I'd have taken (as a main Horde but playing both factions) an Alliance actually doing some grey stuff any day.

    Especially since it then doesn't mean the Horde has to be the evil faction and can actually respond to Alliance aggression instead of ALWAYS getting slapped with the villain bat. Then you wouldn't need to have Horde PCs all be clinically schizophrenic and hip hop between being on board with genocide for 2 patches then do a 180 and rebel against this evil shit. If there was actual merit for both sides to feel justified in attacking eachother it would feel more natural and not dumb as hell for one faction to overstep and the PCs turn on it.

    For now since we're at an armistice (pray it lasts because these writers have proven they cannot write faction war) I'd say let the humans take a back seat now that Anduin isn't there. Turalyon has no reason to be anything but one of several leaders so let the different leaders' needs be in conflict and spend time worldbuilding each Alliance faction (human Noble Houses, Gilnean/Kul Tiran/Stromgarde shenanigans, Nelf rebuilding, are dwarves doing allright with two capital cities now etc) and then once we're familiar with the different factions let their conflicting needs take center stage.

    Do the same for Horde, establish each individual cog in the faction and what their focal points are then bring them up against eachother.

  8. #288
    I enjoy the Alliance as is. Don't really need Blizzard to attempt "Morally grey" bullshit conflicts, they already ruined the Horde.

  9. #289
    The solution is already coming. It's cross faction grouping. It's literally the only way to salvage Alliance at this point.

    There's just too many people on Horde side to realistically balance out the factions again.

    That said, cross faction guilds need to eventually happen. I get that it's probably largely a technical limitation at the moment, but it's pretty crucial that they fix it.
    Quote Originally Posted by AZSolii View Post
    "yes, let's piss him off because he loves his long hair. Let us twirl our evil mustaches amidst the background music of honky-tonk pianos! GENIUS!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Culexus View Post
    Yes i hate those sneaky account thieves that come to my house and steal my computer in order to steal some wow money! Those bastards! *shakes fist*

  10. #290
    Going into detail would be crossing into things of which this place does not speak, but cross faction guilds and groups was proved possible years ago by people who can't even dream of having an iota of Blizzard's budget. Blizz has no real excuse, just like they have no excuse whatsoever for causing the problem with their Horde bias.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    The Horde is basically the guy that gets mad that the guy that they just beat the crap out of had the audacity to bleed on them.
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  11. #291
    What people here need to accept, quite frankly, is that giving spotlight to Alleria and the Ren'dorei is pretty much the only way to make the Alliance interesting.

    The Void elves are literally the most special and unique race in the Alliance: former race of the Horde who defected to the Alliance, cunning, resourceful, methodical, manipulative, ambitious, and ruthless. They also have a unique goal with their "Bring the Void down at all costs!" endgame and their attempts to restore Quel'Thalas to the Alliance.

    Turalyon is not original. Turalyon becoming evil is not original. It's Arthas/Scarlet Crusade 2.0.

    Alleria and the Void elves entering the spotlight is original and will make the Alliance more original, if they adopt their values. The Void elves are the one Alliance race that is not willing to play around, as seen with their actions in Zuldazar, and thus the Alliance could learn much from them.

    The general consensus is that the Alliance needs to stop being the punching bag and needs to be more proactive.

    The Void elves literally sent Horde ambassadors into the Void to prevent them from making an alliance with the Zandalari. They are fucking savages, and thus we need to see much more of them. They are what the Alliance needs.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2022-05-12 at 10:49 AM.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    What people here need to accept, quite frankly, is that giving spotlight to Alleria and the Ren'dorei is pretty much the only way to make the Alliance interesting.

    The Void elves are literally the most special and unique race in the Alliance: former race of the Horde who defected to the Alliance, cunning, resourceful, methodical, manipulative, ambitious, and ruthless. They also have a unique goal with their "Bring the Void down at all costs!" endgame and their attempts to restore Quel'Thalas to the Alliance.

    Turalyon is not original. Turalyon becoming evil is not original. It's Arthas/Scarlet Crusade 2.0.

    Alleria and the Void elves entering the spotlight is original and will make the Alliance more original, if they adopt their values. The Void elves are the one Alliance race that is not willing to play around, as seen with their actions in Zuldazar, and thus the Alliance could learn much from them.

    The general consensus is that the Alliance needs to stop being the punching bag and needs to be more proactive.

    The Void elves literally sent Horde ambassadors into the Void to prevent them from making an alliance with the Zandalari. They are fucking savages, and thus we need to see much more of them. They are what the Alliance needs.
    The Alliance fanbase didn't want Void elves in the first place. The only lore bits left for them is when the inevitable Light/Void expac comes out and Alleria and the rest of her Void morons turn into the ticking time bombs they are. I guess the Alliance can use that mess as a plot hook.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    What would really be interesting moving forward is that Malfurion this time becomes the "aggressive" leader of the night elves, while Tyrande becomes more passive, like in the Terror of Darkshore cinematic.

    Basically, Malfurion rejects peace and keeps trying to attack the Horde in Ashenvale and other places, and this creates growing tension between him and Tyrande, building up the "viciously savage" night elf druid character. Remember, as much as they go on and on about balance and harmony, the night elf druids were the ones who created the worgen, they do have this aggressive and primal streak about them.
    Well, yeah, the night elf druids ended up becoming the first worgen, but that's cause they used a dangerous, experimental form they couldn't control, then botched trying to fix it with an artifact they didn't understand. Whether that innate ferocity is the night elf's inner rage own brought out uncontrollably or something from the form not the elf is an interesting philosophical discussion.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Well, yeah, the night elf druids ended up becoming the first worgen, but that's cause they used a dangerous, experimental form they couldn't control, then botched trying to fix it with an artifact they didn't understand. Whether that innate ferocity is the night elf's inner rage own brought out uncontrollably or something from the form not the elf is an interesting philosophical discussion.
    It would be interesting if Malfurion did unleash the worgen or incorporate it into his skill set somehow, perhaps with help from the Gilneans and Cenarius. Another idea is the Druids of the Flame, that would be an interesting twist to night elf society. Whether or not you like the night elves particularly, I do think as a major race dating back to Warcraft 3, they deserve to be a little more than worn-out doormats with nothing new and exciting on their plate.
    "You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    It would be interesting if Malfurion did unleash the worgen or incorporate it into his skill set somehow, perhaps with help from the Gilneans and Cenarius. Another idea is the Druids of the Flame, that would be an interesting twist to night elf society. Whether or not you like the night elves particularly, I do think as a major race dating back to Warcraft 3, they deserve to be a little more than worn-out doormats with nothing new and exciting on their plate.
    That would be some interesting character development for him. He was one of the druids who experimented with the pack form. Even HE couldn't control it and went on a rampage, even attacking his beloved teacher Cenarius in the process. That's what led him to banning the pack form in the first place. Again, we don't know if the pack form simply releases a night elf's innate ferocity, or simply is its own thing. It would be an interesting plot twist to allow it, similar to them FINALLY welcoming back the Shen'dralar and mages in Cataclysm, another discriminated group.

    On the other hand we only have one night elf worgen ingame right now, some chick in charge of a camp in northern Felwood, and even then we're not 100% sure.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  16. #296
    It's funny how people here want Alleria to become a villain when she is literally not evil and doesn't even have evil intentions. All she wants to do is to defeat the Void Lords, no matter the price. Illidan was cheered and praised for this philosophy yet Alleria deserves to die for it? Literally every single action she has done since her reintroduction in Legion was to better understand and manipulate the Void, so that she can turn the weapon of the enemy against them (the Void Lords).

    As for her dealings with Quel'Thalas, she doesn't seek to wage war on her own people. She simply believes that Quel'Thalas would be better off under the Alliance. Which is, you know, the same idea Theron had in MoP. People here make fun of Alleria for joining the Alliance but they forget that Theron also believed in the Alliance more than the Horde in MoP (until the Purge of Dalaran ofc).

    So it's just funny how people here want Alleria to become a villain and a boss when she is literally not an evil person. She is a good person who, like Illidan and the Death Knights (people who are beloved and cheered), wants to use her dark powers to protect Azeroth from those who would destroy it.

    And I'm going to add that, EVEN IF ALLERIA SUCCUMBED TO THE WHISPERS, she still wouldn't be a villain. Because, as the Vision of Stormwind shows us, she still believes that what she is doing is right. She believes that the whispers have told her a truth and that she should have listened. She still came from the angle of trying to do good.

    And perhaps we should mention how N'Zoth himself believed that he was protecting Azeroth from more malevolent forces (referring to the Janitor). We see the Old Gods as these big evil monsters, but in the end even N'Zoth thought he was protecting the mortals of Azeroth from Death.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2022-05-15 at 02:23 PM.

  17. #297
    High Overlord PsychoSe7eN's Avatar
    3+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Posts
    157
    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    One of the major complaints about players regarding the Alliance - and why they favored the Horde, even back in the original game - was the Alliance seemed too bland or uninteresting, while the Horde was much more nuanced and complicated.

    For example, many Horde players insist that lots of fantasy games, especially back then, did not allow you play as orcs, trolls or tauren, which was why they felt the Horde in World of Warcraft was so appealing and unique in that regard, the orcs were not simply rampaging monsters, but a conflicted people with an ancient culture and a proud history who struggled with their identity while fighting for survival.

    While Stormwind humans were simply the default option for beginner players, the same old human protagonists who fought against monstrous-looking invaders, that were used over and over in most every fantasy franchise. The "traditional" Alliance races of humans, dwarves, gnomes and elves simply seemed much less fascinating and engaging to some people than the opposing races.

    I can understand this, to some extent, having an interest in both factions lore-wise - even in Battle for Azeroth, Kul Tiras was a beautiful place, but Zandalar honestly seemed much richer and more deeply fleshed out, and much more original, and far superior even to most of the previous Horde cities. The playable Kul Tirans were basically somewhat more obese humans with a modified Gilnean accent (which is even more confusing, as Jaina, her brothers, her parents, Brother Pike, Lady Waycrest, most of the major Kul Tiran characters were portrayed as in fact fairly slender and thin human characters, so I don't know what they were trying to get at there).

    Regarding the other Alliance races:
    - The dwarves seemed too generic and even among most Alliance players never seemed that popular. The ever-loyal short human sidekicks with a weird accent.

    - The night elves I think were the most interesting part of the Alliance, but their story has been heavily diluted since the Third War, and always seem extremely reliant on the assistance of the other Alliance kingdoms, especially Stormwind. Cenarius no longer cares about them and is friendly to the Horde, most of the Wild Gods are neutral; Nordrassil was nearly destroyed; their immortality is gone; the Temple of Elune and their capital Darnassus itself are both gone; Elune has lost most of her mysterious nature and is the sister of this newly introduced afterlife character, and did nothing to save their people; their race is now all but extinct. They've lost Teldrassil, and much of Darkshore and Ashenvale, and most of their civilian and military forces, and the Horde has them vastly outnumbered and surrounded on all sides.

    Look at Wolfheart - in which even Tyrande was not able to help win the battle for the night elves, but Varian Wrynn came charging in at the last moment and saved them - or Mists of Pandaria, in which Varian taught Tyrande lessons in patience against the Horde. Some interesting elements such as the Highborne introduced in the Cataclysm, or the Wardens and demon hunters, seem to be almost never utilized in-game or heavily explored either.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/warcraftlor...nowledge_seen/

    - The gnomes, well...they are interesting, but I think most Alliance and Horde players are divided between those who intensely love them and those who intensely despise them. They also seem to be only in a background supporting role, Gelbin's appearance during that Zandalar cinematic was I think one of the few major appearances of gnome involvement, and they have yet to appear in any major expansion cinematic.

    - The draenei also seemed to have been largely skimmed over with the exception of Legion (and I guess Draenor, but those draenei are now fanatics, and that world is long since lost, so I'm not sure if that still counts). Velen and most draenei characters had pretty much no role in Battle for Azeroth (Velen's greatest role was caring for refugees in Elegy), not showing up even for Battle for Darkshore; the Exodar itself was not mentioned whatsoever throughout the expansion and seemingly forgotten by both factions.

    - The worgen provided an interesting twist, but they seem to be heavily ignored also after Cataclysm, with the exception of Genn Greymane, the token advisor at Anduin's side - their lands are STILL lost to them, so it's not like worgen players have much to look forward to either.

    - The Tushui Pandaren other than Aysa's brief and stationary appearances with other Alliance leaders are not mentioned either.

    - The Kingdom of Stromgarde seemed to have been rebuilt, but again, we saw nothing of this reflected in-game or in that novel.

    Even the new allied races, such as the Lightforged and void elves, don't really seem to be expounded too much, just a couple new fodder NPCs for Horde players during Faction Assaults perhaps, but not much more. For example, why is the Vindicaar entirely absent from the Fourth War, and how did the void elf population grow significantly in such a short period of time?

    How do most Stormwind humans view the Kul Tirans, positively or negatively, and how do most Alliance races actually regard the dark iron dwarves and mechagnomes? Why are there next to no interactions between any of those allied races themselves? Why can't most Alliance players visit 3 of 5 Allied race zones? In fairness, the Horde has full and constant access to the entirety of Highmountain and Suramar, in addition to all of Zandalar, and the only inaccessible zone for most Horde players is the time-displaced Draenor for the Mag'har orcs.

    Even during Battle for Azeroth - the Horde players at Level 120 still heavily outnumbered the Alliance players, both in guilds and individually, leading to a major gameplay imbalance between the two factions. Are there any ways to better address this to even the playing ground perhaps - and perhaps to improve and diversify the Alliance in general, such that it might appeal more broadly and deeply to most players?
    Three words: Mad King Turalyon.

  18. #298
    Free faction and server transfers. And maybe an alliance themed mount for free, if you switch with x chars that are max level and have at least x hours of playing time.

  19. #299
    Basically: Brutality, arrogance and division.

    Imagine a paladin dragging a Forsaken bound with Light-infused chains into the Stormwind Cathedral to torture them for information, the holy ground and chains searing their rotting flesh.
    A commoner speaks up in protest, only to be "disappeared" by nearby guards.
    Finally, a priest begins a sermon advocating for "justice" against the Horde, using their psychic magic to affect their congregation's minds and whip them up into a frenzy.
    Some aren't affected, but they go along with the mood of the crowd for the sake of their own safety.

    Outside the Cathedral, a couple of Night Elves watch from the shadows as the sermon ends. Only humans are allowed inside the Cathedral these days...
    It became clear that it wasn’t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hardcore, as it had been in the past. -- Tom Chilton

  20. #300
    The Alliance lacks kick-ass moments.

    It's sucked playing Horde during the past two faction conflicts. Again forced into the bad guy by an asshole. But I'm guessing in many ways, it was even worse for the Alliance.

    I mean, losing a city is crap. But if some enemy does it, such as when Deathwing destroyed part of Stormwind, it can at least show off the power of the bad guy. But who does the destruction of Theramore and Darnassus hype up? The Horde. The other faction of players. That's not a healthy thing.

    And what revenge has been had? Garrosh escaped and was then killed by a Horde leader, not Jaina. The Undercity was blown up by the Horde themselves. The Alliance failed to take or destroy Zandalar; they killed a king that wouldn't submit, and were chased off. Sylvanas escaped Tyrande and the coolest strike against her came by a Horde general built up in a series of great Horde cinematics. Ultimately Sylvanas gets judged, but only after being turned good. It's not an awesome moment.

    So yeah, personal journeys where the Alliance gets some cool moments that show what makes the Alliance a great faction. (Also, just boost the racials). The Alliance has many things in their favor. They attract more new players. Their aesthetics are better than the Horde's by far. And their leaders are on average a ton more powerful than the Horde leaders.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •