King's Diversity Space Tool: A Leap Forward for Inclusion in Gaming

[Zoibert the Bear]

Whether you treat someone as X or Y is entirely contingent on your perception of their external gender signifiers (like their preference for wearing certain colors or styles of clothing), not their junk. That's what makes it a sociological construct, unless you are implying you have some form of magical dick detection.

Facial structure, smell, body shape, and the fact that hundreds of thousands of years of evolution made me capable of knowing what a man looks like, with a decent accuracy. There are outliers and anomalies of course, but that is exactly what they are unfortunately.

[Goatfish]

Gonna need a citation for this.

Not assuming that a minority is lying falls under "We respect the lived and professional experiences of our community members and are committed to eliminating bias related to aspects of identity and experience" Experience is a subjective thing, so we aren't allowed to assume people are lying about their experience. Fuck man, we had the whole MeToo movement of "believe all women". It's also your entire half of the trans debate. Experience trumps shared reality every time, that's your argument, not mine.

So, basically act like a professional in the workplace? The horror.

If you think that is a good thing, then I'm worried for the road ahead. Sometimes we need to be critical of people's appearance, and it's absolutely essential in the majority of relationships. Sometimes I really am smarter than someone, but I wouldn't even be allowed to say I had a better idea if my opposition is a minority, which is really bad for the workplace. Never cursing or dishonoring someone I can probably get behind, because there are more effective ways to convey your message.

What laws? You've only cited workplace regulations and recommendations by non-government agencies.

... I was referring to Jim Crow laws applied on a broader scale instead of dictated by certain racial interactions. Something you clearly seem to support in full.

However, what you're not getting is that generalizing and making fun of white people almost never has actual political consequences for them as a demographic. Whereas open bigotry against women and minorities can and does pose a political threat to those groups. The power disparity is a very real factor that can and should be taken into account, and as a result one is inherently more problematic than the other.

Then again, that level of analysis is more than I expect from people who think not being able to say slurs is literally the second coming of Hitler or whatever. Rofl.

I think I pointed this out already. The CRT and DEI principles suggest that you can only be damaging if you are coming from a historical place of power and privilege based off your inherent characteristics. You're so deep in the sauce you don't even realize it. When you start applying group privilege, you necessarily start applying group guilt, and we know exactly how that went over across many horrific events in the 20th century.

Here is a source as an example. OSU is a state institution that specifically participates in diversity hiring, refusal to dismiss any idea coming from a historic minority group, and promotion of equity, or equality of outcome regardless of effort.

[NineSpine]

First off, you did move the goal post sweet heart.

Second off, let’s see how stupid this sounds.

What’s the difference between transgender and gender dysphoria then. Let’s hear it

Gender Dysphoria: "A persistent unease with having the physical characteristics of one's gender, accompanied by strong identification with the opposite gender and a desire to live as or to become a member of the opposite gender."

Transgender: "Having changed gender identity from male to female, or from female to male."

The fact that you are so confident that these meant the same thing is amazing.

[Syncr]

And then proceeded to cite an article where the person being banned had her account axed for repeatedly saying it in a context of specifically targeting other users.

It's almost as if the offense was being a shithead and attacking other people rather than simply stating a belief in the abstract. Or are you implying that holding those beliefs necessitates attacking others? Rofl.

Disagreeing with someone, and then stating facts, is not an attack.

No matter how much you want it to be.

[Biomega]

Facial structure, smell, body shape, and the fact that hundreds of thousands of years of evolution made me capable of knowing what a man looks like, with a decent accuracy. There are outliers and anomalies of course, but that is exactly what they are unfortunately.

So you're saying "I can tell, except when I can't", and the times where you can't you just say aren't relevant.

That's a nice way to dodge the problem

I can predict the future, by the way. Except when I can't. But those are just anomalies and don't count.

[Elegiac]

What’s the difference between transgender and gender dysphoria then. Let’s hear it

One entails feelings of psychological distress due to a mismatch between assigned and desired gender, the other is simply the state of existing as a different gender from the one assigned at birth.

Even excluding those who choose to transition without having felt dysphoria - if someone who suffers from dysphoria does transition and their dysphoria subsides as a result of being treated, they are still trans.

Really fuckin' simple. Lol.

[Syncr]

Gender Dysphoria: "A persistent unease with having the physical characteristics of one's gender, accompanied by strong identification with the opposite gender and a desire to live as or to become a member of the opposite gender."

Transgender: "Having changed gender identity from male to female, or from female to male."

The fact that you are so confident that these meant the same thing is amazing.

Okay I agree, now let’s take one step further if someone were to

“Having changed gender identity from male to female, or from female to male."

Why do you think they did this?

[NineSpine]

Disagreeing with someone, and then stating facts, is not an attack.

No matter how much you want it to be.

If you misgender someone to harass them, you get banned. You know that if I find a very masculine non-trans woman and just insist on calling her "he" and a "man", I also get banned? It's almost like it has nothing to do with stating "physiological differences" and is actually about targeted harassment.

[Elegiac]

Facial structure, smell, body shape, and the fact that hundreds of thousands of years of evolution made me capable of knowing what a man looks like, with a decent accuracy.

So, yes; your perception of their external signifiers rather than a magical dick detector.

You do realise that feminine men and butch women exist, right?

[NineSpine]

Okay I agree, now let’s take one step further if someone were to

“Having changed gender identity from male to female, or from female to male."

Why do you think they did this?

Sometimes because they were diagnosed with gender dysphoria, and the typically recommended treatment for gender dysphoria is to transition.This means being transgender is the treatment. To make a comparison, this would be like you saying "Going to therapy is a mental illness" just because it is the *treatment* for a mental illness. Furthermore, the diagnosis of gender dysphoria, and therefore the classification of being mentally ill is REMOVED once they are successful in their treatment. That means that someone who successfully transitions and is now happy no longer has gender dysphoria and no longer has a diagnosable mental illness.

[Elegiac]

Not assuming that a minority is lying falls under "We respect the lived and professional experiences of our community members and are committed to eliminating bias related to aspects of identity and experience" Experience is a subjective thing, so we aren't allowed to assume people are lying about their experience. Fuck man, we had the whole MeToo movement of "believe all women". It's also your entire half of the trans debate. Experience trumps shared reality every time, that's your argument, not mine.

So, no citation then. Got it.

If you think that is a good thing, then I'm worried for the road ahead. Sometimes we need to be critical of people's appearance, and it's absolutely essential in the majority of relationships. Sometimes I really am smarter than someone, but I wouldn't even be allowed to say I had a better idea if my opposition is a minority, which is really bad for the workplace. Never cursing or dishonoring someone I can probably get behind, because there are more effective ways to convey your message.

Society isn't going to collapse if you aren't allowed to be an asshole at work, my dude.

And the idea that diversity leads to a decline in quality continues to be a bigoted myth.

I was referring to Jim Crow laws applied on a broader scale instead of dictated by certain racial interactions. Something you clearly seem to support in full.

So, you weren't actually referring to laws. Good to know.

I think I pointed this out already. The CRT and DEI principles suggest that you can only be damaging if you are coming from a historical place of power and privilege based off your inherent characteristics. You're so deep in the sauce you don't even realize it. When you start applying group privilege, you necessarily start applying group guilt, and we know exactly how that went over across many horrific events in the 20th century.

Sorry, are you implying that recognizing there are power disparities between demographics is literally going to lead to Holocaust 2.0? Fucking lol.

Here is a source as an example. OSU is a state institution that specifically participates in diversity hiring, refusal to dismiss any idea coming from a historic minority group, and promotion of equity, or equality of outcome regardless of effort.

More of this garbage, huh?

No, habibi, you still need to meet the minimum qualifications for a position even under a diversity hiring scheme.

[Goatfish]

Sometimes because they were diagnosed with gender dysphoria, and the typically recommended treatment for gender dysphoria is to transition.This means being transgender is the treatment. To make a comparison, this would be like you saying "Going to therapy is a mental illness" just because it is the *treatment* for a mental illness. Furthermore, the diagnosis of gender dysphoria, and therefore the classification of being mentally ill is REMOVED once they are successful in their treatment. That means that someone who successfully transitions and is now happy no longer has gender dysphoria and no longer has a diagnosable mental illness.

If someone were to lose their arm in an accident and we give them a prosthetic, would we consider that person as perfectly able? Cured even?

[kamuimac]

and this is exackly why blizzard is failing but not only blizzard - but whole civilisation of west

because of all this lbgtgender propaganda showed by force into throats through all possiblr media.


this tool is prime example why wow and other blizzard games have been complete failure in last couple of years. because they no longer tell fantasy stories - they spread gender propagana everywhere possible

and for the record - i know mutliple homosexuals/people of different races etc - and all of them are disgusted with what current massmedia are doing - because both games and tv is being unberable to play / watch . they no longer tell stories - they show diversity and gender.

[Elegiac]

and this is exackly why blizzard is failing but not only blizzard - but whole civilisation of west

because of all this lbgtgender propaganda showed by force into throats through all possiblr media.

this tool is prime example why wow and other blizzard games have been complete failure in last couple of years. because they no longer tell fantasy stories - they spread gender propagana everywhere possible

Yeah it totally couldn't be due to having a toxic and exploitative workplace which continues to actively grind down its employees by, say, engaging in union-busting under the cover of a bunch of neckbeards getting outraged over diversity. /s

[Redroniksre]

If color has nothing to do with having a penis, why is blue a boys color and pink a girls color? Why do women typically have long hair and men short hair? Why do women typically wear skirts and men pants? Why do women typically wear heels and men don't? What is the BIOLOGICAL explanation for these things since you say there exists no social category?

I feel like you two are arguing about two different things. Male and Female as sex, and Male and Female as a gender (One physical, and one social), unless I am missing something here. Usually that is what ends up happening when people argue these sort of things.

[kamuimac]

If someone were to lose their arm in an accident and we give them a prosthetic, would we consider that person as perfectly able? Cured even?

ofc not - thats why suicide rates dont change after gender transition . because it doesnt fix real problems most of those people have.

[Elegiac]

ofc not - thats why suicide rates dont change after gender transition

Yeah, no. You're lying.

[kamuimac]

Yeah it totally couldn't be due to having a toxic and exploitative workplace which continues to actively grind down its employees by, say, engaging in union-busting under the cover of a bunch of neckbeards getting outraged over diversity. /s

well when blizzard was a "white frathouse" like some people suggest they were producing quality games

now there is nothing but diversity there and look what we have in last few years

actions speak louder then words. and result of this transition is dead wow and no intersting blizzard game in last decade since overwatch which was also scraps of whatever remianed out of project titan .

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, no. You're lying.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/

"Data indicate that 82% of transgender individuals have considered killing themselves and 40% have attempted suicide "

[Spacewalrus2010]

ofc not - thats why suicide rates dont change after gender transition . because it doesnt fix real problems most of those people have.

They actually do help with suicide rates: https://www.suicideinfo.ca/resource/...eople-suicide/

What effects the suicide rate are more related to having their gender identity affirmed and accepted as people. I.E. being bullied, discriminated against and threatened all lead the higher than average suicide rate of trans people.

But its not surprising you don't know this. You don't give a shit about them so your research into the topic consists of old talking points.

[Elegiac]

well when blizzard was a "white frathouse" like some people suggest they were producing quality games

You're getting your timeline mixed up.

The workplace problems at Blizzard became prevalent around roughly the same time as it started having development issues with its games, both of which are directly tied to its acquisition by ATVI. Has fuck all to do with the very recent diversity initiatives that only began after they got in trouble with California.

actions speak louder then words. and result of this transition is dead wow and no intersting blizzard game in last decade since overwatch which was also scraps of whatever remianed out of project titan .

Overwatch which was a massive success to begin with despite having one of the most diverse character rosters on the market at the time. Sure, Jan.