King's Diversity Space Tool: A Leap Forward for Inclusion in Gaming

[Magical Mudcrab]

Ah yes, turning representation into a min-max spreadsheet, what could possibly go wrong?

This is the dumbest possible idea anyone could've come up with.
Good fucking lord.

It's not just dumb, it's literally an inverted Power Flower. The whole point of the power flower is to be used in exercises to assess personal identity, including socially ascribed and inherent traits. It was not made to be a "Power Level" (or Diversity Level) indicator for videogames, and I don't believe it's fit for purpose.

[NineSpine]

It is being taught in schools, on social media if you speak out against it you're being banned. And yeah MAP is a real thing taught at college-level academia. The world is fucking broken and disgusting, and some people are pushing for it to be that way in the name of "inclusion". So yeah, the message seems to be Go fuck yourself if you think otherwise it seems.

I have two graduate degrees, including one in sociology, and I lecture part time at a college. You are just making this shit up, or believing other who are making this shit up.

There is nobody being taught in school that gender dysphoria isn't real. It's in the fucking DSM. You have to get a gender dysphoria diagnosis to even get insurance to cover anything. You are delusional.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Lol, what?

I don't know about you Elegiac, but I have no recollection of ever being forcibly tied down and talked to about MAP's in my CompSci courses.

[Adamas102]

The fact you're even trying to argue this, lets me know that you aren't worthy of anyone's time. Beyond the fact that you completely took what was said out of context just to try and make some dumb ass "woke" point, is pathetic. And real women don't need your kind of bullshit.

It' already been covered plenty in the subsequent posts that you're idea of "just stating truths being offensive and banworthy" is mired in simpleminded, bigoted rhetoric. It's not that the statement itself, put forth divorced of any context, is incorrect. It's that almost anyone (and certainly you included given your "real women" bullshit) who spouts off these "facts" is invariably doing it to harass and demean other people.

[Elegiac]

I don't know about you Elegiac, but I have no recollection of ever being forcibly tied down and talked to about MAP's in my CompSci courses.

Clearly you never took geography because I swear to god that entire faculty is just obsessed with MAPs and arguing which type of MAP is a more accurate MAP.

[chorx]

God is a gendered term, you should use "xid" to be more inclusive you bigot!

That term is so freaking racist against space beings. We’re not magic sky xir’s. We have feelings too, and you humans often hurt them with this language.

[agentsi]

Lol, what?

https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/sta...85538334068740

They're openly trying to do so, and have done so for over a year.

[Elegiac]

https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/sta...85538334068740

They're openly trying to do so, and have done so for over a year.

I wasn't aware making a shitty post on TikTok was the same thing as "teaching MAP in college level academia."

Grats on outing yourself as one of Taylor Lorenz' followers, though. Classy.

[agentsi]

I wasn't aware making a shitty post on TikTok was the same thing as "teaching MAP in college level academia."

It's a college professor, teaching the course in the video. But sure, let's ignore facts and continue to live in a bubble.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ns-center.html

It's becoming a normalized thing, where any sort of "progress" is being made from woke campuses. We were warned about it years ago being the next thing that would be pushed on to folks, and here it is.

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I have two graduate degrees, including one in sociology, and I lecture part time at a college. You are just making this shit up, or believing other who are making this shit up.

There is nobody being taught in school that gender dysphoria isn't real. It's in the fucking DSM. You have to get a gender dysphoria diagnosis to even get insurance to cover anything. You are delusional.

Ah yes, anecdotal evidence. I do this, so no one else could possibly do that. Cool story bro.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0708131152.htm

Everything you've been taught is slowly being eroded away. DSM is passively being rejected by some of your peers, and it isn't the first time. So yeah, get with the times. considering you know, you "lecture" folks about it. I'd imagine you would be more informed about your own field. But hey, I guess not. I feel sorry for whoever hired you.

[Elegiac]

It's a college professor, teaching the course in the video. But sure, let's ignore facts and continue to live in a bubble.

First off, it's very clear you didn't even bother to watch the clip that Taylor Lorenz decontextualized because the person in question specifically explains why they use the term and that it's not a defense of MAPs or their beliefs.

Secondly, this is in no way indicative that it's anything but an isolated incident making your claim that "it's being taught at college level academia" still a nonsense one.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ns-center.html

It's becoming a normalized thing

If it's becoming normalized how come they were fired for making the statements in the video as your own article points out? Kinda contradicting yourself there, rofl.

[Hitei]

I agree with the OW dev. Formulated representation is creepy and backwards af.

The issue with her response is that she then agreed with the tool.
"We don't need that kind of tool, devs have eyes...

(...to do exactly what the tool does, but with rough impressions instead of numbers)"

Which sure, whatever. but then the issue is that "using their eyes" has lead to even a fairly diverse game like Overwatch having a bunch of character archtypes that are sort of problematic if you actually spend too long thinking about them. Part of the tool's specifically intended capability is making it easier to see where personal biases have unknowingly created caricatures that the creator didn't process as being a caricature. Like for example, the Mexican hero being a former cartel member, or the Brazilian one being from a favela, or the Australian ones being insane criminals, and the two Japanese ones being different flavors of ancient ninja/samurai and Yakuza, and the two Egyptian heroes being absolutely covered in ancient Egypt memes.

People, with eyes, are liable to inject their preconceived notions and assumptions about who someone is based on their race or where they are from. Oh, she's a girl from korea so she must be a k-pop esque, cutesy celeb personality who also plays competitive starcraft. Oh he's Nepali, he must be some sort of monk. The tool makes it easier to see when that is happening. Are you making every character from America white? Are you making most of your black or brown characters someone who grew up in an impoverished hell-hole struggling to survive?

Easy to see when the data is right there in front of you in numbers and plots and graphs.
Less easy to see when you're just spitballing ideas and not necessarily thinking about how your ideas are falling into your own biases.

[NineSpine]

It's a college professor, teaching the course in the video. But sure, let's ignore facts and continue to live in a bubble.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ns-center.html

It's becoming a normalized thing, where any sort of "progress" is being made from woke campuses. We were warned about it years ago being the next thing that would be pushed on to folks, and here it is.

This is about a person who argued for methods to make sure that pedophiles get treatment before they act so that children aren't harmed. How is that a bad thing? Do you want children to be harmed?

...and they were fired... so doesn't that prove that it isn't tolerated????

Ah yes, anecdotal evidence. I do this, so no one else could possibly do that. Cool story bro.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0708131152.htm

Everything you've been taught is slowly being eroded away. DSM is passively being rejected by some of your peers, and it isn't the first time. So yeah, get with the times. considering you know, you "lecture" folks about it. I'd imagine you would be more informed about your own field. But hey, I guess not. I feel sorry for whoever hired you.

This is an analysis of the chapters on a completely different set of disorders, and the conclusions are that we need to be more careful about considering distress to be a disorder which actually leans more toward gender dysphoria being a disorder LESS often... which would counter your points not mine.

[Elegiac]

This is about a person who argued for methods to make sure that pedophiles get treatment before they act so that children aren't harmed. How is that a bad thing? Do you want children to be harmed?

This is an analysis of the chapters on a completely different set of disorders, and the conclusions are that we need to be more careful about considering distress to be a disorder which actually leans more toward gender dysphoria being a disorder LESS often... which would counter your points not mine.

Really getting "I only read the captions or headlines of shit and don't bother reading or watching any of the actual content" vibes from them, tbh.

There really needs to be more of an emphasis on media literacy in schools these days.

[Spacewalrus2010]

Really getting "I only read the captions or headlines of shit and don't bother reading or watching any of the actual content" vibes from them, tbh.

There really needs to be more of an emphasis on media literacy in schools these days.

You are too generous.

The headline confuses them pretty often too.

[Raelyn]

I just a pick a character that looks nice and I don't mind looking at for multiple hours at a time. Don't care about anything else in all honesty.

[Khaza-R]

The issue with her response is that she then agreed with the tool.
"We don't need that kind of tool, devs have eyes...

(...to do exactly what the tool does, but with rough impressions instead of numbers)"

Which sure, whatever. but then the issue is that "using their eyes" has lead to even a fairly diverse game like Overwatch having a bunch of character archtypes that are sort of problematic if you actually spend too long thinking about them. Part of the tool's specifically intended capability is making it easier to see where personal biases have unknowingly created caricatures that the creator didn't process as being a caricature. Like for example, the Mexican hero being a former cartel member, or the Brazilian one being from a favela, or the Australian ones being insane criminals, and the two Japanese ones being different flavors of ancient ninja/samurai and Yakuza, and the two Egyptian heroes being absolutely covered in ancient Egypt memes.

People, with eyes, are liable to inject their preconceived notions and assumptions about who someone is based on their race or where they are from. Oh, she's a girl from korea so she must be a k-pop esque, cutesy celeb personality who also plays competitive starcraft. Oh he's Nepali, he must be some sort of monk. The tool makes it easier to see when that is happening. Are you making every character from America white? Are you making most of your black or brown characters someone who grew up in an impoverished hell-hole struggling to survive?

Easy to see when the data is right there in front of you in numbers and plots and graphs.
Less easy to see when you're just spitballing ideas and not necessarily thinking about how your ideas are falling into your own biases.

Some very fair points. OW isn't flawless as far as representation goes. But I don't see how the some contrived rating system really helps.

Sort of the underlying issue with "checkmark" systems that marginalize people. Just as an example, who is adequately latino or middle eastern? As you described it just ends up becoming a stereotypical depiction of a group of people. But a formulated one would just shove a populist image instead.

My issue is that developers can be trained to broaden their perspectives and improve diversity. Lets not forget that OW is from 2016 and in development long before that. A computer by contrast will always have a rigid, binary approach that does not accurately represent the radial nature of human diversity.

[mcnally86]

If porhub metrics are to be believed this tool creates the most appealing characters.

[Jinpachi]

This retarded shit shouldn't be used at all. It's pandering, nothing more. Fuck 'em

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Yeah, this was a really smart thing to post. Does MMO-C really need the type of engagement this will bring? Just link the closed thread and be done with it lol

all engagement is good engagement.

[Tyris Flare]

You might be one of the most bad faith posters I've ever seen on this forum. I'm actually kind of shocked. Do you talk to everyone like this? How the fuck do you manage to maintain any healthy relationships at all? Like... I'm finding it hard to even respond to you because everything in your response is a straight up dismissal, ignorance of provided evidence, strawman, or is just a straight up lie.

If you want to have a real conversation, then I'm down. Also, never call me habibi again, it's not cute and I don't consent.

Post count is a pretty good indicator of how toxic someone is here. Anyone who posts 10x+ a day for over a decade on this forum is uh pretty suspect

[Jinpachi]

So what, then they should be represented by a foot?

no, an npc in the background.