Comments like this make my brain hurt. It really shows silly this has become. Casual players used to get their gear through dungeons and LFR. Now its dailies. They complain about this, and get told they want it easy. LFR should not drop good gear, but dailies should! What? Want to make more casual content? How about making the leveling process last 25x longer? Why such an obsession to get the end game? Is this really what mmorpgs are about? Blizzard spends years creating content only for people to level through it in a few weeks max and then treadmill it on different difficulty levels for 2 years. Its idiotic and the antithesis of what a RPG should be. This game really has become diablo online.Surprise. So do the Raiders and Dungeon players. The only reason why their content looks like it is more is because it is harder and thus needs more effort and time to complete. The casuals in this thread do not want difficulty, they don't want to learn fights or even their own rotation, they do not want effort. So, what is the solution? Blizzard would have to patch every two month at minimum to keep delivering content that the casuals can run through in a day before they can complain again that there is no content.
Casual content would have to be delivered at a much higher pace then non-casual stuff, because it is consumed much faster. I am sure you know that it is simply not realistic to expect that.
Either way its just pointless arguing at this point. What casual player in their right mind would play the game in its current state? I would rather watch paint dry. Welfare dailies and pet battles is all that is left. Even logging in at the end of an expansion for catching up is pointless as it all resets anyway next expac.
Last edited by Johnjohn; 2022-05-17 at 08:20 PM.
I'm not sure what you mean? I never said the best games are the ones that sell the most copies. I don't think either WoW or Diablo currently are bad games but once upon a time WoW was one of the best games in the world, Diablo 2 was one of the best games in the world.
WoW has fallen from grace, as the company behind it is more focused on using tactics to try and keep people playing.
Diablo 3 was initially bad due to greed (RMAH etc.), I actually quite like the original concept of Inferno. RoS on release was quite frankly a masterpiece. But then people wanted more power, easier drops, infinite level scaling and by catering to these needs we end up with the D3 we have today. Where gear is overshadowed by XP grinding, where you get your full set in 1 day.
I can only speak from personal experience, but every game I have played that I have truly loved was when the devs were making the game they wanted to make and I have seen time and time again where these images have been warped by either corperate greed or simply a desire to fulfill everyones requests. The very thing they think they are doing to retain players is what makes them all leave because once your goal becomes "keep as many players as possible, make as much money" instead of "make the best game we can make" your game is doomed to fail.
A good portion of that five years has been BfA and Shadowlands. Tell me that another five years of the "game being that way" is the best forward path. I never said or even implied that WoW is dying. It's doing fine. It could do even better if it provided an engaging and long-term end game for players who don't do M+ or raid. Why so afraid of change?
"...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."
Because you are afraid of the changes that have been made - you said yourself (or at least agreed) the changes have only been over the last 5 years - change is good, isnt it?. You are also making a huge assumption that the changes you suggest, which none of you can even agree on, would be good for the game overall.
What it really sounds like is "change is good, you shouldn't be afraid of change. Except for those changes they made 5 years ago. Just changes I personally want, those should be made, and anyone who doesn't agree is afraid of change. Not me though, change is good!!!! Except those changes they made half a decade ago, I don't like those"
But they have added non instanced content. You just refuse to see it.
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What would that look like for you. Waving your hands and saying more rewarding and interesting game play for users means nothing. M+ hasn't had any substantial new content since 9.0. Raids get around 10 bosses every 6 months. The world gets at least 100 new quests every patch. That's a lot more story and more interesting than a raid. Or are you actually trying to disguise "where's my mythic level loot" as a request for more rewarding gameplay?
Considering how casual friendly SL was, from a loot power perspective, I honestly don't think some people will stop their crusade until they can literally get mythic raid loot for farming a few WQ per day. Then they will realise if everyone is powerful, noone is powerful, and that will be that.
I don't remember a time in wows history, outside of some prepatches or final patches months after the final raid was done, when players had access to gear of such a high quality compared to raid and pvp gear. Still not enough.
Did you miss the mega dungeons? Did you miss the new reputations? Did you miss the new recipies? It's like you don't even play the game at all and haven't since wod.
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Are you on a different sub? What sort of price is the sub where you don't have access to any organised content because I would prefer to pay less to have heroic raiding up and pvp content removed. Or are you just lying again.
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Maybe they should create a new zone with over 100 quests with treasures and progression through gear and a world boss and rares and an upgrade system and dailies and a reputation and world quests and optional world pvp and lore...
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Yes you can. Just because you got what you wanted doesn't mean there isn't more to get
What on EARTH are you talking about? Seriously this is so, SO delusional. CHOOSING to do raids does not grant you access to ANYTHING that is not also avaialble to people who CHOOSE not to - its the CHOICE that the player makes. There is no 'artificial gating" there are people forming groups, and you might not get invited if you dont meet their standard. If thats the case, you can gear up to a level never before seen in wows history, outside of prepatches / final patches after the expansion is done, do some LFR, and get into normal.
ACCESS..........holy shit dude, this is next level confusing. Do raiders pay a "raiders sub" and you pay a "non raiders sub" which means you cant physically get in the raids?
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So you CHOSE to stop and thats someone elses fault? Back in the day, if i went to the local blockbuster, and rented a movie, i left with one movie which i chose. That doesnt mean blockbuster only had one movie....
In that case BfA and Shadowlands have been really splendid and quite popular with players. Right?
One can observe change in something over time and make an assessment as to whether or not it's been something good or otherwise. That has zero to do with fear. I don't even know how one comes to that conclusion.
After the endless bitching about the last two expansions this sudden outlook that change might be a bad thing is bizarre.
"...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."
Bizarre? Change is what put you in this situation. And yet you claim that more change is good? You need to acknowledge some change can be good, some bad. You claim the previous change was bad, and also ASSUME your proposed change would automatically be received well. Its just bias, nothing more.
So it would also be ok to only put in only one m+ dungeon since you can always play it on a higher difficulty and never run out of content to do? And no new raids, too, apparently barely anyone kills the last boss on mythic, there is enough content out there for raiders until the majority did that.
Last edited by Yriel; 2022-05-18 at 07:40 AM.
Not unsympathetic to this argument but Wow has always been excessively focused on elitism. If you weren't a raider you didn't see the end of the expansion. F***ing dumb to cut 80% of your players out of that when lore is literally nothing to do with raiding, I suppose at least there is lfr for that now.
But if they changed it so that most people could actually participate in endgame, you'd get asmongold et al crying about how the game used to be difficult and now it caters for special snowflakes who suck etc.
I enjoyed that style of game too but those things were so long ago. I guess my point is that the game has changed away from that a very long time ago people would be better off accepting that instead of fantasizing about wow returning to that style.
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If its been dying at a steady pace since mop, which was released in 2012, im really not too worried lol
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You talked about ppl saying wow is failing.
My point is im not the one afraid of change. The game changed in a big way years ago and there's ppl on here still not accepting that. Ppl want to go back to how the game used to be and not this "esport driven" style it is now as some refer to it.
If the game changes away from what I enjoy about it, ill simply stop playing it and find a game that I do enjoy. You won't catch me on mmochamp 5 years afterwards still demanding that the game goes back
"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
"Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"