Sepulcher of the First One Tuning - May 17, 2022

[Relapses]

Nope, I want Mythic to launch at it's state it is at the end of the tier for everyone, so that more people can do Mythic from the start, while also giving HoF/RtWF Guilds their unnerved difficulty, which they enjoy.

Here's a better solution: Blizzard does what they do currently and the 11 people mildly inconvenienced by having to not suck at the game either get better or kick rocks.

[Lady Atia]

Sure - but how do you handle the launch - why not just clear the lower ilvl raid for loot if it is easy mode for the top 10 guilds. How do you launch without distorting RWF?

Like I think if you are top 100 type in the world a mog and title is more than fine for being top 0.001%. The mog/mount would just be a recolor so not like you dont have something similar from Mythic raid anyways. If the mount and stuff was entirely new then I could see the complaint a little better.

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Going to be cross faction raiding - I would expect cross faction guilds is when it gets better since then people will just play the race they want.

HoF/Raid+ wouldn't give any better gear/cosmetics but be there for thouse who want to push HoF and want hard stuff. RWF would basically still be the same - guilds would prolly clear it once on Mythic+0 and than go directly to Mythic+15.

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Here's a better solution: Blizzard does what they do currently and the 11 people mildly inconvenienced by having to not suck at the game either get better or kick rocks.

KekW. Yes, because 99% of players who can't kill a Mythic Sylvanas are of course 11 people.

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Oh, also, I never said make Mythic piss easy. I said give us the tuning you have at the end anyways at the start, while giving HoF guilds the unnerved thing for their title pushing. Where is the problem?

[Loveliest]

Are ppl still stuck on Anduin? Maybe we could get some nerfs on Rygelon on hc too for those progressing on it (that aren't Mythic raiders). My guild is struggling there with 10-11 ppl because all the dpses have to run after sparks and we have almost all melee and no immunities for soak. It's not really designed for small groups.

[Biomega]

Nope, I want Mythic to launch at it's state it is at the end of the tier for everyone, so that more people can do Mythic from the start, while also giving HoF/RtWF Guilds their unnerved difficulty, which they enjoy.

So how is that not what heroic is?

Is it just the name that's a problem for you?

[Relapses]

Oh, also, I never said make Mythic piss easy. I said give us the tuning you have at the end anyways at the start, while giving HoF guilds the unnerved thing for their title pushing. Where is the problem?

I don't know, whatever could be the problem with adding yet another pointless raid difficulty to a game which already has too many raid difficulties?

Oh right. The fact that it doesn't need to exist and the solution shouldn't be for Blizzard to cater to every possible demographic this game has. Get better at the game instead of demanding everything be catered specifically to you.

[Fentawow]

If they launched in current state - it would be over in like 2-3 days in a regular tier. Nerfed to oblivion Echo and Liquid would just crush it. SO we now want them to clear it for RWF then push into a M+ type increasing difficulty system for no reward beside title? I just dont see it.

Right now we have people complaining normal and heroic are too difficult let alone Mythic. There is just so many people are varying skill levels that having another scaling difficulty without reward I just dont see gaining steam.

[gobarj]

Always funny to read people thinking they should tune it so everyone has a shot at it. That's NOT what Mythic is for, you have your LFR/Normal/HC. If you want to do Mythic raiding, put the time in and join a top 50 guild or so so you can clear the content while it's still somewhat un-nerfed.

[Fentawow]

Yeah like I think an argument for a harder difficulty is fine that they leave as originally tuned unless it is way way to crazy.

But right now you can outgear Mythic raid but that doesnt mean you can access it even after the nerfs. The player base just has a wide variety of skill levels and I have seen people complaining normal difficulty is too hard. You dont need to complete every level of content and if you cant it is more indicative of your skill or the community you play withs average skill.

[Relapses]

Yeah like I think an argument for a harder difficulty is fine that they leave as originally tuned unless it is way way to crazy.

But right now you can outgear Mythic raid but that doesnt mean you can access it even after the nerfs. The player base just has a wide variety of skill levels and I have seen people complaining normal difficulty is too hard. You dont need to complete every level of content and if you cant it is more indicative of your skill or the community you play withs average skill.

Players don't like admitting either they or their friends suck at the game. They'd rather pretend that difficulty is an arbitrary barrier to entry and that if Blizzard would just give them access to one or two more item levels they'd easily one shot the most difficult content in the game.

[antelope591]

Other games have already solved this issue. Have a "contest" mode for 1-2 weeks (maybe 3 if its end of expansion raid) where its the buffed WFR version of the raid. The rewards for completing it are purely cosmetic or maybe one extra drop while the mode is active. Once the contest mode is off, apply a flat 30% nerf to raid. Very simple solution and you don't have to continually nerf the raid for months after like Blizz is doing.

[Rustykeyboard]

why are u guys arguing on mmo champ, when u should be killing mythic bosses

[Biomega]

Other games have already solved this issue. Have a "contest" mode for 1-2 weeks (maybe 3 if its end of expansion raid) where its the buffed WFR version of the raid. The rewards for completing it are purely cosmetic or maybe one extra drop while the mode is active. Once the contest mode is off, apply a flat 30% nerf to raid. Very simple solution and you don't have to continually nerf the raid for months after like Blizz is doing.

And what about the people in between 0% nerf and 30% nerf?

What this would do is effectively say "you have two weeks to compete, and if you can't do it then, you basically don't get any difficult content at all". That's pretty lame. I know I would never ever raid if the best I had access to was a 30% nerf, or having to finish everything in 2 weeks. That sounds like a massive turn-off.

[MrFrag]

I have been playing this game since TBC, never missed a last boss kill of a patch/expansion. I might skip Zovaal even in normal mode. It's the plan
Btw I haven't tried LFR version of Zovaal as well. Interesting.

[mrgreenthump]

I wish that they would stop designing the game around the top 100 guilds in the world so that they wouldn't have to nerf the content a bunch of times. It really kills any sense of accomplishment when you know that you're beating a watered down version, isn't that why we have multiple difficulties in the first place?

It's not even top 100, it's more like top 20 or 10 even. It's been over 2 months from the launch and it's starting to look like we might not even see top 500 to kill the Jailer before next patch.

But realistically what can they do? You can no longer design the fights based on gear improvements making them easier, because gear is rather easy to get for the top guilds and hence they need to make the mechanics so complex and tight, that it will make it only a bit easier with the gear you get, but the wipe mechanic is still really hard to master. So it's pretty much all designed for the race being rather short and interesting to watch, while everyone else is worse off, because the gear they get will not help them to down a boss, like in they could before when they didn't really care about the absolute top getting it done in a week or two.

Hence now we are getting our n-th round of nerfs to the end bosses. And likely not the last ones. Would be interesting to see though, what would the race look like with all these nerfs to all of the bosses. A repeat of Emerald Nightmare? Because, for an average casually raiding guild, that was pretty awesome. Could just raid 3 or so night a week and comfortably clear the raid in a month or two. Now there is no hope of that before nerfing everything to the ground.

Think the biggest mistake of raiding this expansion that the guild that I was in did, was that we beat our heads into a wall, because of us being rather casual and hence quality of recruits being really bad. While the right choise would've been to clear to our progress boss and then learn it's mechanics and wait for the nerf.

[Lady Atia]

So how is that not what heroic is?

Is it just the name that's a problem for you?

Are you implying that killing a Mythic Endboss with the last wave of nerfs is equal to killing it on Heroic? Hahahhaha.

[Biomega]

Are you implying that killing a Mythic Endboss with the last wave of nerfs is equal to killing it on Heroic? Hahahhaha.

No, I'm not. Did you even read your own post?

You want a difficulty that more people can do right away, while also giving top-end raiders a more difficult challenge.

That's what heroic vs. mythic is already.

[Lady Atia]

No, I'm not. Did you even read your own post?

You want a difficulty that more people can do right away, while also giving top-end raiders a more difficult challenge.

That's what heroic vs. mythic is already.

Well, not really. Heroic is piss easy. And the current system of overtuning mythic at the start and gradually nerfing it just feels so bad. It would be different if our gear is what nerfs the bosses, but flat out nerfs every week or two just feels like wasting everyones time honestly.

[Echo of Soul]

Always funny to read people thinking they should tune it so everyone has a shot at it. That's NOT what Mythic is for, you have your LFR/Normal/HC. If you want to do Mythic raiding, put the time in and join a top 50 guild or so so you can clear the content while it's still somewhat un-nerfed.

Then why even bother nerfing it 50000 times?

[Daan]

When M+ nerfs for Destro and SV?

[Dzonathan]

I wish that they would stop designing the game around the top 100 guilds in the world so that they wouldn't have to nerf the content a bunch of times. It really kills any sense of accomplishment when you know that you're beating a watered down version, isn't that why we have multiple difficulties in the first place?

At this point raids might as well drop the 4 settings of difficulty and go with M+ format.