STOP making the game for the top 0.01% of the players! It’s killing this game

[Raelbo]

So casual is entirely subjective? Then how are Blizzard supposed to make content for those players.

By recognizing that Casual/Hardcore are simply 2 points on a spectrum. The fact that people disagree exactly where on the spectrum those points exist doesn't change the fact that spectrum exists. So as long as they are designing content for people across the spectrum, it doesn't matter how you define the term "casual". It will be covered.

WoW already does this by offering almost all content in various difficulty levels designed to cater for different parts of that spectrum. So I don't really understand what the fuss is about.

[Karawaka]

Because to me a casual friendly game opens up all difficulties of the game. Just because a casual can get normal gear quickly doesn’t really make that super casual friendly imo. Like wow it opened up super easy content for me how fun.

Destiny 2 is a great example of casual friendly. You are able to do literally the hardest content in the game and all it takes is like 3 weeks of 2-4 hours a week of play

If that's is too much work then maybe wow isnt for you. It's literally the casual mode of wow. The highest gear you can get for the most minimal work while also getting the story

[Syncr]

By recognizing that Casual/Hardcore are simply 2 points on a spectrum. The fact that people disagree exactly where on the spectrum those points exist doesn't change the fact that spectrum exists. So as long as they are designing content for people across the spectrum, it doesn't matter how you define the term "casual". It will be covered.

WoW already does this by offering almost all content in various difficulty levels designed to cater for different parts of that spectrum. So I don't really understand what the fuss is about.

He truly believes that because you can’t narrow down “casual gamer” to an objective meaning or number that must mean you also can’t create any system that benefits them because it will just be a change that doesn’t fit what a casual gamer is because there isn’t a definition.

It’s an insane line of thinking.

[potis]

WoW already does this by offering almost all content in various difficulty levels designed to cater for different parts of that spectrum. So I don't really understand what the fuss is about.

The fuss is basically this:

"I could reach 25 item levels below the maximum average ilvl by playing the very easy repeatable content everyday at patch x.3 where the gear progression bar stopped, and my nostalgia makes me forget the next expansion took 12-14 months to release, therefor i felt awesome that i finally was insanely undergeared after farming pointless trash dailies for nearly a year, while others were unsubbed for 8 months already"

And somehow that was a decent system.

Basically its players that have no idea how the game actually worked and works and how easy it was and is, complaining about things they dont understand.

[Syncr]

If that's is too much work then maybe wow isnt for you. It's literally the casual mode of wow. The highest gear you can get for the most minimal work while also getting the story

That’s a non answer and a lazy response. I’m not even going to humor it.

[ellieg]

Because to me a casual friendly game opens up all difficulties of the game. Just because a casual can get normal gear quickly doesn’t really make that super casual friendly imo. Like wow it opened up super easy content for me how fun.

Destiny 2 is a great example of casual friendly. You are able to do literally the hardest content in the game and all it takes is like 3 weeks of 2-4 hours a week of play

The normal gear that you get very quickly opens up m+15, the content that gives u the max ilvl gear. How is that not good enough?

[Karawaka]

I think the dude just wants to complain.

[Syncr]

The normal gear that you get very quickly opens up m+15, the content that gives u the max ilvl gear. How is that not good enough?

Yes and the amount of time it takes to get to that point to where you can even get the best gear is how long? Not right now in the game where they opened up a ton of the gearing lanes, but during the middle of the expansion or at the beginning when it’s not being experimented on.

[Karawaka]

Because to me a casual friendly game opens up all difficulties of the game. Just because a casual can get normal gear quickly doesn’t really make that super casual friendly imo. Like wow it opened up super easy content for me how fun.

Destiny 2 is a great example of casual friendly. You are able to do literally the hardest content in the game and all it takes is like 3 weeks of 2-4 hours a week of play

Casual is also a term that varies person to person. But if you're looking at casual as being able to do the most difficult content in a short period of time, then wow is casual too. Spend 2-4 hours a day doing M+ and within a month you should be about geared enough for mythic raid. Any difficulties after that I think is skill based, in which that would require them tuning down the highest content for everyone to be able to clear. Which they have. It's called LFR

[ellieg]

Yes and the amount of time it takes to get to that point to where you can even get the best gear is how long? Not right now in the game where they opened up a ton of the gearing lanes, but during the middle of the expansion or at the beginning when it’s not being experimented on.

I told u it was 3 weeks to get up to 255. Not really even needed to get to that point. If taking 3 weeks to get into high mythics is too long to be considered casual, then I think u have unrealistic expectations.

In the beginning of the xpac u just did your cov chapter once a week and u were at basically the same relative ilvl. Could join mythics just as easily.

Its not ilvl that holds ppl back from doing m+. Its rating.

[Syncr]

Casual is also a term that varies person to person. But if you're looking at casual as being able to do the most difficult content in a short period of time, then wow is casual too. Spend 2-4 hours a day doing M+ and within a month you should be about geared enough for mythic raid. Any difficulties after that I think is skill based, in which that would require them tuning down the highest content for everyone to be able to clear. Which they have. It's called LFR

Ok idk how much video games you’re playing but if you’re calling a casual someone who can play 4 hours a day then idk what to say tbh.

That’s like waking up going to work getting home and gaming until it’s time to go to bed.

Here’s the thing about it, I don’t think harder difficulties should be reliant on gear, just skill. I think the process of gearing shouldn’t be this massive time waste. I think the time waste should be you just playing the content you want to play.

Like I said, if you’ve only ever played wow as an mmo then this concept is probably super foreign and impossible to you.

[cparle87]

Because to me a casual friendly game opens up all difficulties of the game. Just because a casual can get normal gear quickly doesn’t really make that super casual friendly imo. Like wow it opened up super easy content for me how fun.

Destiny 2 is a great example of casual friendly. You are able to do literally the hardest content in the game and all it takes is like 3 weeks of 2-4 hours a week of play

Casual isn't purely time investment, though. A guy who clears the mythic raid in two hours and then doesn't log till next week isn't a casual. I see it more like an X/Y chart.

https://imgur.com/vx9EjkJ

[Syncr]

I told u it was 3 weeks to get up to 255. Not really even needed to get to that point. If taking 3 weeks to get into high mythics is too long to be considered casual, then I think u have unrealistic expectations.

In the beginning of the xpac u just did your cov chapter once a week and u were at basically the same relative ilvl. Could join mythics just as easily.

Its not ilvl that holds ppl back from doing m+. Its rating.

No listen to what you said then what I said. You said it takes 3 weeks in order to ‘unlock’ the content in order to get the best gear. I then asked how long until you can even get the best gear then. So it’s 3 weeks + ?

[ellieg]

Ok idk how much video games you’re playing but if you’re calling a casual someone who can play 4 hours a day then idk what to say tbh.

That’s like waking up going to work getting home and gaming until it’s time to go to bed.

Here’s the thing about it, I don’t think harder difficulties should be reliant on gear, just skill. I think the process of gearing shouldn’t be this massive time waste. I think the time waste should be you just playing the content you want to play.

Like I said, if you’ve only ever played wow as an mmo then this concept is probably super foreign and impossible to you.

Thats a great opinion to have. Theres other games like that, that you should go enjoy. Unfortunately for you, wow is not like that and doesn't need to be.

[Syncr]

Casual isn't purely time investment, though. A guy who clears the mythic raid in two hours and then doesn't log till next week isn't a casual. I see it more like an X/Y chart.

https://imgur.com/vx9EjkJ

Sure but that’s sort of unrealistic because it took him a lot longer in order to get into the mythic raid in the first place. He wasn’t just doing 2 hours a week the whole way up there.

And I never said it’s purely time investment either, but that’s the aspect I’m focusing on because that’s the piece I think isn’t friendly.

[ellieg]

No listen to what you said then what I said. You said it takes 3 weeks in order to ‘unlock’ the content in order to get the best gear. I then asked how long until you can even get the best gear then. So it’s 3 weeks + ?

Oh I misunderstood. The way gearing in wow works is timegated. By doing a 15 u get a 278 in your vault once a week. From m+ itself ull get a 40% chance to get a 262 drop from a 15. With valor u can upgrade those 262s to 272s.

[Syncr]

Thats a great opinion to have. Theres other games like that, that you should go enjoy. Unfortunately for you, wow is not like that and doesn't need to be.

Non answer and non response. If you have nothing to offer in the conversation just say you don’t.

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Oh I misunderstood. The way gearing in wow works is timegated. By doing a 15 u get a 278 in your vault once a week. From m+ itself ull get a 40% chance to get a 262 drop from a 15. With valor u can upgrade those 262s to 272s.

That’s exactly my point. This whole system is extremely disrespectful of your time. There’s no reason in my mind that this can’t be achieved earlier.

[cparle87]

Sure but that’s sort of unrealistic because it took him a lot longer in order to get into the mythic raid in the first place. He wasn’t just doing 2 hours a week the whole way up there.

And I never said it’s purely time investment either, but that’s the aspect I’m focusing on because that’s the piece I think isn’t friendly.

The highest levels of content are not going to be casual friendly in any game that isn't super easy even on its hardest level. Even in vanilla when WoW was gaining popularity because it was the casual alternative to truly hardcore MMOs of the day there was time investment before doing the raiding content.

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Ok idk how much video games you’re playing but if you’re calling a casual someone who can play 4 hours a day then idk what to say tbh.

That’s like waking up going to work getting home and gaming until it’s time to go to bed.

Here’s the thing about it, I don’t think harder difficulties should be reliant on gear, just skill. I think the process of gearing shouldn’t be this massive time waste. I think the time waste should be you just playing the content you want to play.

Like I said, if you’ve only ever played wow as an mmo then this concept is probably super foreign and impossible to you.

Sounds like RPGs, where gearing up is a core mechanic aren't for you. Maybe MOBAs or other arena games where the characters come fully developed and you just duke it out are more your speed. From your statement it looks like it.

[ellieg]

Non answer and non response. If you have nothing to offer in the conversation just say you don’t.

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That’s exactly my point. This whole system is extremely disrespectful of your time. There’s no reason in my mind that this can’t be achieved earlier.

Your insistence that all content should be instantly available is offering nothing to the conversation. Its an opinion that you haven't supported.

How is this system disrespectful to your time? If you are skilled enough you could do m+15 week one. A lot of ppl do. Getting the 252 gear is not required but makes it easier.

Why is getting 1 278 from m+ once a week bad? In the beginning of the season u can farm full 262s the first week if ud like. When valor uncaps like it has, u can now farm full 272s.

If you want more gear faster you raid or pvp as well. You get enough conquest for 1 piece every 1.5 week on average. Ilvl determined by rating. For raids, heroic drops 265, mythic 278.

I dont understand what exactly you want. Do you want gear to be infinitely farmable no timegates? Because that's the opposite of casual friendly. You'd have all the hardcores instantly maxed and they'd never invite you if you weren't max geared as well.

Do you want max gear instantly? No one would play after the first month.

You say you want all content opened instantly, and it basically is. You can do heroic raids and m+15 week one. Mythic raids open week 2 but they aren't really for casuals due to needing to be in a guild. You could still do them instantly when they release if u are in a guild.

[Syncr]

The highest levels of content are not going to be casual friendly in any game that isn't super easy even on its hardest level. Even in vanilla when WoW was gaining popularity because it was the casual alternative to truly hardcore MMOs of the day there was time investment before doing the raiding content.

I literally just named you one. Destiny 2.

Also old wow had very very little time investment needed to be at the hardest tier of gameplay. Like maybe leveling took awhile but the moment you were end level you could realistically jump into the first raid and raid log from that point on and be just fine. Especially in tbc when raids took less time. And ESPECIALLY in wotlk where they even opened up raid loot level items with badges.

Sounds like RPGs, where gearing up is a core mechanic aren't for you. Maybe MOBAs or other arena games where the characters come fully developed and you just duke it out are more your speed. From your statement it looks like it.

Fellas, this isn’t a response. Idk how many times I have to say this. There are rpgs that don’t require such a long gearing process. There are mmos that don’t require such a long gearing process. Simply saying “it isn’t for you” isn’t an answer. I could literally use that phrase with any complaint about WoW ever.

“DKs too op?, sounds like wow isn’t for you then sorry”

“Don’t like pay to win gold buying? Sorry sounds like wow isn’t for you then”


If you have nothing to add to the conversation just say you have nothing to add.