Dark Ranger Customizations (Coming in 9.2.5)!!!

[Nightshade711]

The source of the music everyone thought was their AR intro was found.
Looking like no DR allied race.

[Wylyth1992]

It seems that Dark Ranger is more about the status of the person, as there are no non-undead Dark Rangers, only Undead High/ Blood Elves, Undead Night Elves, and (before his permanent death) an Undead Human. It is possible that high level Forsaken Hunters (including player characters) could be considered potential Dark Rangers as well.

[Triceron]

The source of the music everyone thought was their AR intro was found.
Looking like no DR allied race.

Well that's still too early to tell.

The music wasn't the only sign pointing at the possible AR. There were other things like the new DR NPC texture updates, the datamined Slime skins suggesting a Slimesaber mount, the encrypted splash screen etc.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I don't care about changing the subject, here. We're talking about things that occur naturally, like ice melting under the sun, rivers flowing downstream, etc.

So you won’t even answer if Ice, plant life or the sun it self is natural? How can rivers ice or any thing else be natural if you won’t even say the sun or water is natural?

At this point it’s incredibly clear you know your argument can’t stand on its own legs and you can’t actually engage with it beyond just asserting it to be true.

Either all the things I listed are natural and because they are all from the effects of magic the question changes to how you determine which magic is natural and which isn’t.

Or none of the things I listed are natural meaning all your examples are unnatural as well and so is all of Warcraft.

[Ersula]

And that's the point of speculation and discussion. Good predictions should not be surprising, they should be intuitive.

For example, nee Mawsworn Dark Rangers having dark, evil powers gained from Sylvanas' redemption arc is counter-intuitive.

Death Knights.

[Jinpachi]

Short answer? We don't fucking need them.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You can only speculate that. There's no confirmation.
The Helm of Domination is what it sounds like - Domination magic. No frost.

sure we can only speculate where it comes from but we know it’s not elemental frost which isn’t super natural.

Cocomen already told you about that.
"
It indicates that both use Frost. While Mages learn it, Death Knights are born of it.

I don't know if it's Arcane magic. But, it is Frost.

yes they use frost that was never in debate.

What’s in debate is where that frost comes from. As per the shaman page it’s not a natural elements power and as per varies NPC’s and quest it’s not arcane which is not considered a dark art.

At pretty much every turn blizzard has distinguished undead frost from those used by mages and shamans.

We've already been through it.
"Warlocks could leech life energy and power their own magical abilities. The warlocks' death/mortal coil spell is a variation of the Drain Life spell and is one of the necromantic abilities warlocks share with necromancers.
Draining the life energy of creatures, plants, and people with magic ages them."

"This appears to be the Life Drain ability that Dark Rangers used in Warcraft III. This ability absorbs the life essence of a target enemy unit and gives it to the Dark Ranger."

yes we have already gone over how you shouldn’t take plain text from wowpedia at face value. In none of the citations any where in that page is there a actual link between necromantic drain life and fel drain life.

Fel uses drain life it to burn to create Fel magic, Necromancy… I don’t actually know what Neromncy drains life for, just a source of healing id assume unlike fel which uses life to create more fel.

Natalie Seline?
So, they're Shadow Priests?

if you want to say there shadow priest go ahead.

I’ll stick to they are unrepresented and one priest looking into there teachings doesn’t retroactively turn them all into priest.

Examples?
Because we know Fel raised them:
"In Mythic difficulty, Gul'dan reclaims the Fel power from the Fel Iron Summoners to resurrect Mannoroth, keeping the Doom Lord's Fel Spire intact."

"Gul'dan harnesses the power of a Fel Spire to resurrect Mannoroth, destroying the Fel Spire and closing the portal to the Doom Lords."

"Gul'dan harnesses the power of a Fel Spire to return Mannoroth to his true form, destroying the Fel Spire and closing the portal to the Fel Imps."

"Gul'dan harnesses the power of a Fel Spire to Empower Mannoroth, destroying the Fel Spire and closing the portal to the Dread Infernals."

"Felmyst is a fel dragon and the third boss of the Sunwell Plateau raid. She is raised from the corpse of the blue dragon Madrigosa when the blood of the slain pit lord Brutallus seeps into the ground and flows beneath her body."

so two examples, Gul’dan some one who knows how to use necromancy and can turn one magic into another as seen at the night spire And a pit lord dying, something that has happened often and on other dead things like the path of glory and has never raised them.

Given that Felmyst is the only example of pit lord blood raising any thing ever even though it’s been split on the dead before and they pointed out that it seeped into the ground under her and said ground is the dead scar id say that points to said Fel mixing with the necromancy still in the dead scar and not the fel it self raising her.

And Gul’dan just uses the fel to power his necromancy but isn’t actually using fel it self for the raising just like he uses the arcane power of the night hold to power his Fel magic and after manneroth is up he just feeds him actual Fel.

All of this is speculation on my part of course as the lore around these two examples is incredibly sparse and unrepeated any where else.

[username993720]

Which is firmly a part of the Warrior class lore already either way. Warriors encompass a wide variety of identities already. Arms is dedicated to mastering types of weapons, of which bladed weapons are a particular type they could specialize in. That is why a Blademaster was a warrior trainer.

So, you're saying it is a Warrior?

You were making examples of things that aren't likely, but drawing arbitrary categorizations for. Whooosh.

Like having Dark Iron Dwarves both as a customization option and an allied race?

In Dragonflight yes. But you weren't talking about elements in Dragonflight, you were talking about teasing elements for 11.0.

I said you had no way to indicate that being remotely true, do you? You recognize your previous speculation as being a wild guess, right? Unless you can show me where Blizzard has indicated Elements being teased for 11.0.

In the Dragonflight cinematic.

And that's the point of speculation and discussion. Good predictions should not be surprising, they should be intuitive.

For example, nee Mawsworn Dark Rangers having dark, evil powers gained from Sylvanas' redemption arc is counter-intuitive.

Mawsworn Dark Rangers?
Wasn't Illidan redeemed in Legion? Didn't the Knights of the Ebon Blade redeem Death Knights? I didn't see them changing powers.

If they were interested in Dark Ranger gameplay, why skip their obvious addition for Shadowlands and give their abilities to Hunter instead?

And why save it for a potential expansion 6+ years after Shadowlands?

Because of the addition pattern they set for themselves?
TBC - no class. Legion - Demon Hunter.
WotLK - Death Knight. Shadowlands - no class.
Cataclysm - no class. Dragonflight - Evoker.

Because the lore has literally shown us what Mawsworn Kyrian are capable of?

If her Val'kyr were so easily replaceable there would be no stakes in her having lost the Val'kyr in the story.

She literally replaces them with Mawsworn Kyrian in the Gameplay Trailer:

So are the Nathrezim yet they can't raise the dead.

They can't?
"Many dreadlords participated in the War of the Ancients. A few of them experimented with raising undead night elves in the ruins of Suramar—the first inkling of what would lead to the Legion's creation of the Scourge ten thousand years later."

No, and they were never originated from characters after they turned good. You presented an idea after Sylvanas becomes good again, did you not?

You didn't theorize this being an origin story in the past did you?

What? What does it matter? Illidan or the Knights of the Ebom Blade never contemplated to change powers once they turned good. Illidan even refused to be forged by the Light. The Knights of the Ebon Blade desecrated the dead by raising known characters into the four Horsemen. They even slaughtered red dragons. Classes are based on characters, not their affiliations. Sylvanas wouldn't be turning into some Paladin all of the sudden just because she intends to make amends. She is still an Undead. They could have brought her back to life, but they didn't. Dark Rangers don't have to be evil. They've served the Horde before. They are as evil as the Forsaken, which is considered acceptable.

But you didn't present that theory.

If I ask you to present a theory, I expect you to think it through before you do, not just shift goalposts and change your idea midway every time I point out your inconsistencies.

You should be dealing with these inconsistencies yourself, and it's literally doable if you took any time at all to consider how your ideas would practically work. The problem is you haven't at all, and only focus on how gameplay would work rather than the more important aspect of why and how they should be a playable class in the first place, especially when Blizzard has been pushing towards associating them directly as a Racial title for Darkfallen Hunters.

I don't know why you insist on overcomplicating things.
They would be introduced like every other dark-powered class before them. Why can't you see such a thing happening?

sure we can only speculate where it comes from but we know it’s not elemental frost which isn’t super natural.

We also know it's not from the Shadowlands.

yes they use frost that was never in debate.

What’s in debate is where that frost comes from. As per the shaman page it’s not a natural elements power and as per varies NPC’s and quest it’s not arcane which is not considered a dark art.

At pretty much every turn blizzard has distinguished undead frost from those used by mages and shamans.

Necromancy has no Frost. Supernatural sounds like Arcane.
I guess we'll keep wondering.

yes we have already gone over how you shouldn’t take plain text from wowpedia at face value. In none of the citations any where in that page is there a actual link between necromantic drain life and fel drain life.

Fel uses drain life it to burn to create Fel magic, Necromancy… I don’t actually know what Neromncy drains life for, just a source of healing id assume unlike fel which uses life to create more fel.

Why would Fel and Death both have necromantic properties? Think about that. That does not distinguish between the two, it muddles them.

The Warlock's Drain Life does the same as the Dark Ranger's, which operates similarly to Touch of the Grave. It is all connected to Necromancy, which is ingrained in Fel magic (need to check how and why).

if you want to say there shadow priest go ahead.

I’ll stick to they are unrepresented and one priest looking into there teachings doesn’t retroactively turn them all into priest.

So, they're Necromancers?
If so, what differentiates the two?

so two examples, Gul’dan some one who knows how to use necromancy and can turn one magic into another as seen at the night spire And a pit lord dying, something that has happened often and on other dead things like the path of glory and has never raised them.

Given that Felmyst is the only example of pit lord blood raising any thing ever even though it’s been split on the dead before and they pointed out that it seeped into the ground under her and said ground is the dead scar id say that points to said Fel mixing with the necromancy still in the dead scar and not the fel it self raising her.

And Gul’dan just uses the fel to power his necromancy but isn’t actually using fel it self for the raising just like he uses the arcane power of the night hold to power his Fel magic and after manneroth is up he just feeds him actual Fel.

All of this is speculation on my part of course as the lore around these two examples is incredibly sparse and unrepeated any where else.

You just come up with excuses every single time.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

We also know it's not from the Shadowlands.



Necromancy has no Frost. Supernatural sounds like Arcane.
I guess we'll keep wondering.

clicked around the various citations, Necromancy does have frost/the chill of death.

Necromantic magic has many functions beyond simply raising the dead. Masters of this tainted field of magic can conjure festering diseases, harness the shadows into bolts of incendiary energy, and chill the living with the power of death. Necromancy can also be used to reconstruct the flesh of undead creatures, allowing them to function again even after the foul monsters have been destroyed.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/The...c_-_Necromancy

Rather you want to say it comes from the shadowlands or not it does come form necromancy.

Why would Fel and Death both have necromantic properties? Think about that. That does not distinguish between the two, it muddles them.

The Warlock's Drain Life does the same as the Dark Ranger's, which operates similarly to Touch of the Grave. It is all connected to Necromancy, which is ingrained in Fel magic (need to check how and why).

I wouldn’t say they do both have those properties. Fel drains life to create more Fel which destroys the life utterly, death corrupts life and changes twisting it but not destroying it. Neither of these are any thing touch of the grave by the way.

For more info about how Fel and death you should read chronicles where they go over them both and all other magic

So, they're Necromancers?
If so, what differentiates the two?

they are necromancers in the same way sunwalkers are paladins, they fall into a same group but a necromancer is the Azeroth way of doing things while Necrolyte’s are the orc way of doing it.

And what differentiates them from priest or Nat is that Nat looked into there teachings but didn’t just copy them she added the void into the mix instead of just sticking with death magic.

You just come up with excuses every single time.

that’s kinda what happens when we are interpreting sparse lore, we both do so in different ways and come to different conclusions.

The only difference what the two of us are doing is that I’m cross referencing the sparse lore with other instances of similar things happening and the following effects (see pit lord on path of glory), while your not.

[Triceron]

So, you're saying it is a Warrior?

It could be. Blizzard even describes them so in the WC3 manual after all.

Like having Dark Iron Dwarves both as a customization option and an allied race?

Like having both Night Warrior as a customization and a new class.

In the Dragonflight cinematic.

Which has what to do with 11.0?

Mawsworn Dark Rangers?
Wasn't Illidan redeemed in Legion? Didn't the Knights of the Ebon Blade redeem Death Knights? I didn't see them changing powers.

Because none of them followed Arthas or Illidan, while your theory is Sylvanas still leads these new Dark Rangers and created them after her redemption.

This is how you are explaining it. I asked you how it would work, and this is what you've presented so far.

They can't?
"Many dreadlords participated in the War of the Ancients. A few of them experimented with raising undead night elves in the ruins of Suramar—the first inkling of what would lead to the Legion's creation of the Scourge ten thousand years later."

And we don't have playable Dreadlords do we?

What? What does it matter? Illidan or the Knights of the Ebom Blade never contemplated to change powers once they turned good.

What implies they have a choice? They are supernatural beings animated by necromancy. You expect them to start using Druidism or something?

Illidan even refused to be forged by the Light. The Knights of the Ebon Blade desecrated the dead by raising known characters into the four Horsemen. They even slaughtered red dragons. Classes are based on characters, not their affiliations. Sylvanas wouldn't be turning into some Paladin all of the sudden just because she intends to make amends. She is still an Undead. They could have brought her back to life, but they didn't. Dark Rangers don't have to be evil. They've served the Horde before. They are as evil as the Forsaken, which is considered acceptable.

The entire theme of Banshee and Torment is based on Sylvanas' own torment. It is an expression of her character. That is what makes Dark Ranger more unique and different than Death Knights or Demon Hunters, who are effectively sourcing borrowed power; DKs through channeled runeblades and DH through their fel-powered souls. Dark Rangers who use Banshee powers were literally explained as Banshees who reclaimed their bodies. That can't really happen with the NE in the maw. They have no bodies.. They burned with Teldrassil. Those warriors which we knew who died fighting were already raised by Sylvanas, and to our knowledge, not as Banshees reclaiming their bodies.

So the origin of what you want represented and what you're explaining in your theory are conflicting. It makes no sense. So are you going to make sense of it?

I don't know why you insist on overcomplicating things.
They would be introduced like every other dark-powered class before them. Why can't you see such a thing happening?

I am open to the possibility. It simply remains a very low one that has no compelling, realistic theory to how it would happen.

I remain open to the possibility of Bards and Runemasters. How they get added is anyone's guess too, right? And I don't expect them to be their own standalone classes. If someone started arguing that Bards and Runemasters should be playable classes, I would then ask how they actually think a new class would be realistically plausible, as I asked you here.

So far you've provided nothing realistically worth discussing. Nothing actually makes sense in regards to what you actually want.

Right now it's Mawsworn Kyrians raising NE from the maw to follow Sylvanas and all become Dark Wardens and Dark Rangers under her command. I mean, how realistic would this happen? I get Danuser is a massive Sylvanas simp, but even this is a stretch.

- - - Updated - - -

Death Knights.

No one could have speculated that DK's would be playable in the way Blizzard added them.

The collectively agreed method was more along the lines of a Warrior adopting unholy powers and the title of Death Knight. No one speculated or predicted DKs switching factions and breaking control of the Lich King's will. No one even knew DK would be the first playable class; it was anyone's guess for what the first new class would be.

[Alanar]

Well that's still too early to tell.

The music wasn't the only sign pointing at the possible AR. There were other things like the new DR NPC texture updates, the datamined Slime skins suggesting a Slimesaber mount, the encrypted splash screen etc.

The more I look into it, the less likely it seems tbh.
The splash screen wasnt hinting anything, same as the slimesaber as it was just one of the concepts who was popular back then and dont really scream dr race mount either imo.
Hell the skin could just be npcs skins with the forsaken lore bit. I was skeptical, but now even more.

If at all, hunter cosmetic options is the only thing left in the cards it seems..

[wowrefugee]

Slimesaber is the reward for Fated Raids, so that's not it.

Assuming everything on PTR is implemented, we have Dark Rangers who went with Calia in 9.2.5 as part of quests, as well as a separate quest with Dark Ranger Velonara and a newly raised Dark Ranger Prelus.

There's unfortunately nothing that points directly to an allied race. The splash screen being encrypted, by itself, doesn't mean they're hiding an allied race.

I don't think all hope is lost, though - it's possible they've either 1) not added in the allied race files in their entirety yet 2) they've all been successfully encrypted and kept a mystery.

If they want to keep it a secret until a later point in time, then the only clues we'd have to go on are things that slip through the cracks. There's still the armor set texture that has an Elven-like logo on it that hasnt been seen in game before.

[Ielenia]

So you won’t even answer if Ice, plant life or the sun it self is natural? How can rivers ice or any thing else be natural if you won’t even say the sun or water is natural?

Of course they're natural. Ice is natural in very cold regions. Plant life is natural on fertile regions. I honestly don't think you're thinking it through with your argument, here.

What is your point here? That either everything is natural or everything in unnatural? Well, clearly "unnatural/supernatural" exists since we have the sentence "supernatural cold" used to describe death knights in the lore. But if "magic and its effects are natural" like you like to claim it is, then the whole idea of "supernatural cold" does not exist, because it's created by magic, therefore it's "natural".

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Of course they're natural. Ice is natural in very cold regions. Plant life is natural on fertile regions. I honestly don't think you're thinking it through with your argument, here.

What is your point here? That either everything is natural or everything in unnatural? Well, clearly "unnatural/supernatural" exists since we have the sentence "supernatural cold" used to describe death knights in the lore. But if "magic and its effects are natural" like you like to claim it is, then the whole idea of "supernatural cold" does not exist, because it's created by magic, therefore it's "natural".

So ice is Natural, something from the effects of the elements, Planet life is natural, Something from the effects of Spirit magic on the elements, So the effects of magic are in fact Natural if those things are as they only happen due to the effects of magic.

And no everything being natural/unnatural only applies if we go with your idea that all magic and it's effects are unnatural instead of going with what chronicles say's which is that some magic's are innate to the great dark while others only come into it by bleeding over from different realms.

Chronicles tells us that Elemental, Nature(spirit) and arcane are all part of the great dark that void and light clashing created them and every thing in the great dark are made up of them and are a result of them, The Ice, and plant life, the Sun all of them are from the effects of there magic (natural)

Light Void Fel and death all exist outside of the great dark in there own realm's and are not part of the great dark and are held out unless certain event's let them cross over(super natural).

[wowrefugee]

So ice is Natural, something from the effects of the elements, Planet life is natural, Something from the effects of Spirit magic on the elements, So the effects of magic are in fact Natural if those things are as they only happen due to the effects of magic.

And no everything being natural/unnatural only applies if we go with your idea that all magic and it's effects are unnatural instead of going with what chronicles say's which is that some magic's are innate to the great dark while others only come into it by bleeding over from different realms.

Chronicles tells us that Elemental, Nature(spirit) and arcane are all part of the great dark that void and light clashing created them and every thing in the great dark are made up of them and are a result of them, The Ice, and plant life, the Sun all of them are from the effects of there magic (natural)

Light Void Fel and death all exist outside of the great dark in there own realm's and are not part of the great dark and are held out unless certain event's let them cross over(super natural).

This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.

[pacotaco]

Short answer? We don't fucking need them.

Technically, we don't NEED anything from WoW.

[Triceron]

This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.

You'll find that's the case with 99% of the threads in this forum.

[Alanar]

This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.

Been like this for a while.. there is nothing to discuss really so this happends. Also in other threads, its kinda normal these days. But I agree.

Anyway, sure I want to stay positive and hope for more, but sadly it seems that slowly some things just end up being something else. Slimesaber and now the music both are linked to other things.

Red eyes for hunter is also kinda meh tbh as the san"layn or darkfallen in general are not just rangers, but also mages, rogues and dk as shown in icc for example and mages specifically mentioned in the book. But the stuff being hidden is the only thing we can hang on at this point which is not much. It just seems weird an allied race would be hidden like this, again we have to wait and see and I would be thrilled if darkfallen happen, but it doesnt seem likely to be fair.

[TheRevenantHero]

So ice is Natural, something from the effects of the elements, Planet life is natural, Something from the effects of Spirit magic on the elements, So the effects of magic are in fact Natural if those things are as they only happen due to the effects of magic.

And no everything being natural/unnatural only applies if we go with your idea that all magic and it's effects are unnatural instead of going with what chronicles say's which is that some magic's are innate to the great dark while others only come into it by bleeding over from different realms.

Chronicles tells us that Elemental, Nature(spirit) and arcane are all part of the great dark that void and light clashing created them and every thing in the great dark are made up of them and are a result of them, The Ice, and plant life, the Sun all of them are from the effects of there magic (natural)

Light Void Fel and death all exist outside of the great dark in there own realm's and are not part of the great dark and are held out unless certain event's let them cross over(super natural).

Dude, he is incapable of admitting when he's wrong. Just ignore him and get back to the topic of the thread.

[Triceron]

Bellular jumped on the speculation train too now