why is no one playing survival. its insanely strong right now

[Makaloff]

Both can't be right. But let's do the math: 33 speccs in the game. Which would make 4-7% a massive overrepresentation. Which survival hasn't. So your numbers came straight out of a dark place.

I will translate your rant to grownup: YOU don't wan't to play the specc. YOU don't like it. And YOU don't want others to have fun with it. Because if YOU don't play with the toy, noone should. *stomp*

if you bothered to read my comment instead of being "hurr durr rant YoU dOnT lIkE tHe SpEcC". the numbers is from surveing all hunters that is max level and chosen a covenant. You dont even present any good argumentations either for that matter. The numbers dont lie, very few wants to play meele hunter, simple as that. Blizzard could made survival meele as a 4th specc but thanks to them not using their brain, we still have these heated discussions years down the line. I have nothing against people enjoying the specc, ive played it myself and know what its capable of. However its extremly low representation and consistent bottom tier (in terms of representation not dps) is pretty evident that the specc is a failure going from ranged to meele. I dont want to take away meele hunters from those who enjoy it, but at the same time, blizzard took away ranged survival for alot of people only to please some weird nieche they already knew would be extremly niece.

So in short what blizzard should do if they rub their 2 braincells together is to reintroduce ranged survival as a 4th specc (call it munitions expert or something). thus, everyone wins and nobody has to lose something.

[lazypeon100]

Unfortunately that is far from true. If survival was the undisputed top DPS out of all the other classes you would see a massive rise in survival play.

We have seen that. Multiple times actually. It does get more players trying it out but it is still an insanely low amount of players compared to BM or MM. I think last I checked (last week), SV only has more players than Outlaw rogue atm. And that's with it doing incredibly well in M+ and doing well in raid.

I'd honestly appreciate evidence to the contrary, because I see this claim frequently but evidence for it never materializes in regards to SV.

[Easyclassictopkeklel]

They are playing it in race to world first because Blizzard balanced it to do more damage at the current second, and for no other reason.

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World first races don't have a high threshold for "utility" in the context of the broad range of the game; it has some very specific utility that is very useful in cheesing world first encounters (ie: it has an immunity), and that's nearly the whole kit. It also has nothing that the other hunter specs don't have, which means that in any case where it isn't overtuned compared with the other hunter specs AND the fight doesn't explicitly allow for extra melee, there is zero reason to ever play survival.

There is a good reason. Because it is fun. No need to tryhard if you aren't in a serious hardcore raiding guild...which 99.9% here aren't.

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So in short what blizzard should do if they rub their 2 braincells together is to reintroduce ranged survival as a 4th specc (call it munitions expert or something). thus, everyone wins and nobody has to lose something.

Yeah sure, omega braincells at work to add an unnecessary fourth spec to a class so idiots can argue even more about how one of the spec is completely useless.

[Makaloff]

There is a good reason. Because it is fun. No need to tryhard if you aren't in a serious hardcore raiding guild...which 99.9% here aren't.

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Yeah sure, omega braincells at work to add an unnecessary fourth spec to a class so idiots can argue even more about how one of the spec is completely useless.

so whats your solution then? clearly the current situation isnt suitable due how extremly niche and unwanted meele survival is, and since we who played RSV know the pain of getting your specc taken away from you,we dont want the same to happen to those who enjoys meele survival. bringing in a 4th specc would be the option that makes both sides happy. its either that or remake MSV to RSV again, which would upset people and create a similar situation to going from RSV to MSV in legion.

Meele hunter was and always gonna be a bad idea, its a infected sore that plagues the hunter community and a 4th specc would be able to heal this wound. Nobody is saying that MSV isnt fun, its a fun specc for sure, its biggest issue is that its meele and very,very,very few people want to play meele hunter. numbers have spoken for themselfs over the years, even when the specc is been doing exceptionally great.

Hell, blizzard have to bribe people to play survival with a broken 4p set bonus and tons of borrowed power and yet it barely sees any representation whatsoever.

[Magenugget]

I will always miss old SV, I played it non-stop from TBC to MoP. They reworked it because they thought it was too similar to MM and didn't have an identity... to which I say that current SV just feels like a melee BM to me and I didn't make a hunter to play melee. Infact you could switch the tooltips of Bestial Wrath and Coordinated Assault and fantasy-wise it would make MORE sense. Meanwhile current MM feels nothing like old SV, both in terms of gameplay and fantasy. They have effectively deleted the spec as far as I am concerned.

[cparle87]

Unfortunately that is far from true. If survival was the undisputed top DPS out of all the other classes you would see a massive rise in survival play.

One, there's a stigma against the spec. Two, there's a lesser stigma against melee specs when they have a ranged alternative. Kitties get it. Enhances get it slightly less cause they give windfury to their fellow melees.

[schwank05]

I love it and am maining it right now, just got my 4 set last night its super OP now. But even if it is not good Ill still play it as I prefer melee to ranged. It plays a lot like Enhance Shammy in Cata, a mix of Mid range/ melee skills it flows well and is a lot of fun to play.

[Eapoe]

Play it whenever I can, which is unfortunately still not often enough.

[Makaloff]

what im interested in is how scarce surv hunters will become once we lose all that borrowed power again

[exochaft]

One, there's a stigma against the spec. Two, there's a lesser stigma against melee specs when they have a ranged alternative. Kitties get it. Enhances get it slightly less cause they give windfury to their fellow melees.

Yeah, it comes down to how Blizz designs/balances the game as well as the player perception of the game (both of which can play off of each other). As you mentioned, Ferals understand this extremely well after the original Bear/Cat split all those expansions ago: unless you can bring something to the table that is required or heavily desired, the player perception is "ranged > melee, and pure melee class > hybrid melee" as a rule of thumb. For druids, that means being Moonkin is innately considered better because it's a ranged DPS spec over Feral being a melee DPS spec. I only remember one time post-split where Feral was stacked, and that was due to insane bleed snapshotting (BWD last boss in Cataclysm, stacking feral bleeds to destroy the boss, and they got nerfed to the ground after that).

When it comes to Survival, it's a similar dynamic: being a ranged hunter is almost universally perceived as better than being melee. Even if your DPS is high, if more utility can be brought by another melee or even another ranged, that's considered the better option. Furthermore, Blizz tends to design encounters to heavily favor ranged over melee, so melee spots are already tight as it is. All in all, it's a perfect storm that's hard to recover from, and you'd have to make Survival so OP to change it... but that level of power would be nerfed fast. You can see it whenever Survival ends up parsing extremely well but still gets little/no representation.

[Mardux]

Unfortunately that is far from true. If survival was the undisputed top DPS out of all the other classes you would see a massive rise in survival play.

So like say... if surv went from less than 600 logged fights in H SoD to nearly 68k logged fights in H SoFO? Not sure about you, but I'd consider an over 11000% increase a "massive rise".

[cparle87]

Yeah, it comes down to how Blizz designs/balances the game as well as the player perception of the game (both of which can play off of each other). As you mentioned, Ferals understand this extremely well after the original Bear/Cat split all those expansions ago: unless you can bring something to the table that is required or heavily desired, the player perception is "ranged > melee, and pure melee class > hybrid melee" as a rule of thumb. For druids, that means being Moonkin is innately considered better because it's a ranged DPS spec over Feral being a melee DPS spec. I only remember one time post-split where Feral was stacked, and that was due to insane bleed snapshotting (BWD last boss in Cataclysm, stacking feral bleeds to destroy the boss, and they got nerfed to the ground after that).

When it comes to Survival, it's a similar dynamic: being a ranged hunter is almost universally perceived as better than being melee. Even if your DPS is high, if more utility can be brought by another melee or even another ranged, that's considered the better option. Furthermore, Blizz tends to design encounters to heavily favor ranged over melee, so melee spots are already tight as it is. All in all, it's a perfect storm that's hard to recover from, and you'd have to make Survival so OP to change it... but that level of power would be nerfed fast. You can see it whenever Survival ends up parsing extremely well but still gets little/no representation.

Pretty much all of this. I was legit shocked when I saw Echo's WF comp and saw it had more melee than ranged. And one melee was brought almost purely for the MS debuff. Btw I haven't been paying attention did they hotfix that after Echo did it?

[Doffen]

So like say... if surv went from less than 600 logged fights in H SoD to nearly 68k logged fights in H SoFO? Not sure about you, but I'd consider an over 11000% increase a "massive rise".

Good to see more people get to experience this awesome spec in 9.2. Of course I have quit now when surv is strong in power, but its nice nonetheless.

[talihawk]

Because it's melee. If I wanted to play a melee spec I'd just play Paladin or Feral Druid. I don't play hunter because I want to top the charts, I play it because I enjoy archery archetypes. I love it's utility and the pets. I'm glad Survival is doing so well, but it's never going to get a huge following because it doesn't fit the fantasy of what many of us want in a 'Ranger' class.

[Makaloff]

Because it's melee. If I wanted to play a melee spec I'd just play Paladin or Feral Druid. I don't play hunter because I want to top the charts, I play it because I enjoy archery archetypes. I love it's utility and the pets. I'm glad Survival is doing so well, but it's never going to get a huge following because it doesn't fit the fantasy of what many of us want in a 'Ranger' class.

yep and sadly thanks to the meele rework it alienated alot of hunter mains from the class (including me). But blizzard is stubborn to keep it as meele despite it being 6 years of just pure failure of a specc. So atleast on my end im either stuck playing MM or BM (BM is just plain bad and boring. MM is just way too sluggish to be even fun to play) or reroll to another ranged class that doesnt have dead brain devs working with it. Honestly i think im not the only one in this situation, sure i can play wotlk classic which actually had the good RSV but that wont last forever and with how retail hunter seem to go i just given up and rerolled at this point. I love the hunter class but im dissapointed how bad it have gotten.

But we are shouting in the void at this point, blizzard again have showed they arent willing to listen to the hunter community beacuse that would be to admit failure and we cant have that. happy customers whats that? but hey, atleast the main meele players have a alt they can play once a year, hope it was worth ruining one of the most unike speccs in the game for the favor a abomination.

[Wylyth1992]

Hunter fantasy is mostly connected to the bow and being a ranged dps. It just feels weird for people to play it as melee.

And then you have the meta reasons, like it being hard for melee to get into groups or have spots in raids.

I mean, Melee Hunters exist in lore, and there are some people (like me) who like to play that sort of Hunter.

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yep and sadly thanks to the meele rework it alienated alot of hunter mains from the class (including me). But blizzard is stubborn to keep it as meele despite it being 6 years of just pure failure of a specc. So atleast on my end im either stuck playing MM or BM (BM is just plain bad and boring. MM is just way too sluggish to be even fun to play) or reroll to another ranged class that doesnt have dead brain devs working with it. Honestly i think im not the only one in this situation, sure i can play wotlk classic which actually had the good RSV but that wont last forever and with how retail hunter seem to go i just given up and rerolled at this point. I love the hunter class but im dissapointed how bad it have gotten.

But we are shouting in the void at this point, blizzard again have showed they arent willing to listen to the hunter community beacuse that would be to admit failure and we cant have that. happy customers whats that? but hey, atleast the main meele players have a alt they can play once a year, hope it was worth ruining one of the most unike speccs in the game for the favor a abomination.

What about people who want to play a Melee Hunter?

[Makaloff]

I mean, Melee Hunters exist in lore, and there are some people (like me) who like to play that sort of Hunter.

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What about people who want to play a Melee Hunter?

i admit that i didnt thought out my previous response very well and i apologise for that. As for meele hunter, my thoughts would be to either make it a talent in the survival tree (so you can choose if you want meele or ranged and the abilities switch accordingly, like raptor strike turns into cobra shot etc). or to make RSV as a 4th specc. Beacuse even if i dont like playing meele hunter, i dont want to take away meele hunter either. All i want is a option to play RSV and i believe that would be the option to make both sides happy. Taking away meele hunter would just recreate the problem again.

[threads]

So like say... if surv went from less than 600 logged fights in H SoD to nearly 68k logged fights in H SoFO? Not sure about you, but I'd consider an over 11000% increase a "massive rise".

ironically there's still more BM and MM parses than SV. even with BM being an extremely bad spec this patch lol.

[Kiria]

SV is melee, I've played Hunter since day 1 and I did not choose Hunter to play a melee class, I LOVED survival in TBC today's survival spec holds absolutely no interest to me as I don't like to play melee classes, so technically I had one of my ranged albeit my favourite ranged class removed.

I am still playing Hunter but I found MM since Legion has been ruined I mean "Rapid fire" can go die in a fire and BM is while has a DoT upkeep mechanic is just not as fun, it's why I'm seriously going to main Evoker away from the class I've played since the start of the game.

[Sariengrey]

No one playing survival? if there is a hunter in one of my mythic + 95% of the time its survival so not sure how you think no one is playing it?, I rarely see a MM and even less BM in my groups. I play MM though