If mythic plus got it's own "elite" armor mog, what do you think it should require?

[Ielenia]

I have EVERYTHING to back up my point. Subs have clearly fallen since M+ came out.

Considering Blizzard stopped announcing sub numbers long before Mythic+ was even introduced into the game, and the fact that subscriptions numbers have been falling even longer before Mythic+ was introduced (i.e. since the Cataclysm expansion), I really have to call BS on your claims here.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

to me, m+ is absolutely vomit-inducing. that and arena are absolutely horrible. remove both.

or maybe we remove you? quit and dont let the door hit you

[Kyriani]

I find anything that gets removed a moronic waste of resources. In a genre that even the most prodigious developers cannot keep up with content creation vs. content consumption, removing anything from the game is probably the dumbest thing I can think of to do.

FOMO is manipulative and actively removes content and/or rewards that players might be inclined to play for. Nothing should ever be removed from the game IMO.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

Doing 20s is already what less than 0.1% of wow players do (especially considering that a rather small amount of wow's playerbase even does mythics keys).

But yeah I think top end players already get way too much already.
.

no 0.1% cuttoff is 3540 IO (25+) in time +20s is casual content done by like 5-10% or so

[Celement]

I find anything that gets removed a moronic waste of resources. In a genre that even the most prodigious developers cannot keep up with content creation vs. content consumption, removing anything from the game is probably the dumbest thing I can think of to do.

FOMO is manipulative and actively removes content and/or rewards that players might be inclined to play for. Nothing should ever be removed from the game IMO.

I mean I am mostly just talking a recolor not it's own set like mop. It would be rather minimal on resources.

[Kyriani]

I mean I am mostly just talking a recolor not it's own set like mop. It would be rather minimal on resources.

I just think that if you're investing the time and resources to make something, the dumbest thing you could do is flush it down the toilet for no other reason than to stroke the ego of a relatively small number of players. Sure the FOMO might get some people playing when they otherwise might not, but at the same time, once the content/mount/item is removed, that's one less reason for someone to return or keep playing once they realize X thing that they were interested in is no longer available.

[Celement]

I just think that if you're investing the time and resources to make something, the dumbest thing you could do is flush it down the toilet for no other reason than to stroke the ego of a relatively small number of players. Sure the FOMO might get some people playing when they otherwise might not, but at the same time, once the content/mount/item is removed, that's one less reason for someone to return or keep playing once they realize X thing that they were interested in is no longer available.

Can't it just be something neat for people who enjoy it?

I doubt rewards are an effective way to entice people into content. I collect transmog but I'm still not gonna pvp for it.

[Kyriani]

Can't it just be something neat for people who enjoy it?

I doubt rewards are an effective way to entice people into content. I collect transmog but I'm still not gonna pvp for it.

Nothing wrong with people enjoying something. Just saying that removing content people would play just to enjoy it, or removing items/mounts/etc they might play to acquire, seems like an incredible waste of time and resources.

For example, I'd like to see Blizzard add back all the vanilla content that got nixed with Cata. Have Chromie zap you into the past where you can do the old EK and Kalimdor content (including the original dungeons/raids) as it appeared before Cata nuked it from orbit. With Classic being a thing now, I don't see why they couldn't copy/pasta that content over to retail since it was made to work with the modern game infrastructure. It would give players an alternative leveling option and/or a ton of content to do for mogs, mounts, achievements (new ones added for the old content), or just to do content they may have never seen depending on when they started playing WoW.

[Pandragon]

bullshit youre just bad, im pugging 25s-27s cuz im in a rading guild and we cleared 11/11M 1 month ago and no one is online to do keys with expect for sales and farm.

Yeah, I'm bad. I ran my 15 spires last week, invited a 3k rated tank, he doesn't stack first boss properly. Keeps the second boss just feet away from the zones. Third boss he lets the orbs hit the boss wiping us, then he gets one shot twice, and on the final boss pulls her after the dk died to the trash and released. Didnt wait for him to come back up making us 4 man the boss, and the 2600 rated hunter was doing as much dps as the tank.

Caused me to fail the key. I even screenshotted the opening dps of the last boss to show my friend. My dps, 18.5k, then tank at 4900, then hunter at 4500, then healer at 3900.

[Ielenia]

this, only bad players value player power,

No, that is not my point. Valuing character power is just as valid as valuing cosmetics. Different people value different things in the game, and what they value doesn't necessarily make them a good/bad players. There's good players valuing character power, and there's good players valuing cosmetics. Just like there are bad players valuing character power and bad players valuing cosmetics.

on topic: the cosmetics should have the Hero cuttof (0.1%) or 3540 IO in this seasons terms which is pretty easy to archive with any Tank/Healer or Surv/WW/Rouge and Lock just 10 25s and 10 24s in time

No. No, it should not. Locking cosmetics behind FOMO because those things will then be lost forever in a single content patch's time is the worst idea possible.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Can't it just be something neat for people who enjoy it?

I doubt rewards are an effective way to entice people into content. I collect transmog but I'm still not gonna pvp for it.

Why does it have to be limited to being something neat for people who enjoy it and happened to be playing at the right time to get it?

It is the time-limited aspect that sucks, not the reward itself. I have the MoP CM gold set on my paladin, and I wish I could get it on my other characters. It wasn't remotely difficult to get; it was boring and took about 5 hours total, I didn't have it in me to repeat it on another character in MoP. I would absolutely have gone back and done it on another class had it remained available in WoD, because WoD had so little content to do (I didn't care for any of the CM weapons).

FOMO in games sucks the life out of them if done poorly, and WoW has been getting worse when it comes to FOMO for years now. The only time I don't hate FOMO is when the time-limited nature is on a schedule. For example the HH mount/valentine's mount/violet proto-drake are all examples of FOMO that is tolerable. You might miss out on it this year, but as long as the game is still around next year you'll have more chances at it. D3 is another example of how to handle FOMO at this with how it cycles cosmetic rewards on a seasonal basis. If WoW went that route and rotated through already existing cosmetics rather than completely locking away the older ones I think it would be much better for the game.

Keep the timestamps on achievements for people who want the prestige of having done it when it was current, but let everyone have access to the more visually interesting rewards later on.

[Jester Joe]

I have EVERYTHING to back up my point. Subs have clearly fallen since M+ came out. It did absolutely nothing to stem the tide. And it shouldn't, because M+ is awful. Garbage like M+ was NEVER the reason WoW was successful.

Correlation does not equal causation. You literally have no actual link between the two, you just have your own bias of disdain for it despite everything pointing towards M+ having pretty high activity.

[Twdft]

the Hero cuttof (0.1%) or 3540 IO in this seasons terms which is pretty easy to archive with any Tank/Healer or Surv/WW/Rouge and Lock just 10 25s and 10 24s in time

Thanks for the laugh in the morning. You really don't see anything wrong with your thoughts? xD

Also laughable:

+20s is casual content done by like 5-10% or so

[Gaidax]

I have EVERYTHING to back up my point. Subs have clearly fallen since M+ came out. It did absolutely nothing to stem the tide. And it shouldn't, because M+ is awful. Garbage like M+ was NEVER the reason WoW was successful.

War in Europe started since M+ was introduced. As a matter of fact, Trump became president after M+ was released. Coincidence? I think not!

[Magical Mudcrab]

WoW has too much FOMO shit as is.

It honestly wouldn't be that bad if getting your +15 or gladiator rank gave you a unique token currency for each type of content that you could spend on a mount from any season, then you could get the mount you wanted. For instance, lets say the Dragonflight mounts for M+ are awful and you missed a season of Shadowlands, a currency system with a vendor would allow you to get the Shadowlands season 1 mount instead of getting a mount you don't want. It would motivate people to get a +15 while removing the FOMO, instead of just removing mount acquisition forever.

[Lady Atia]

FOMO as a way to force engagement just ends up eroding the playerbase's genuine commitment, it's just another forced hamster wheel.

If only a very minor % of players can get a reward, you're by definition creating something most players won't get. Do you really think it's best for the game to gatekeep more content? Bragging rights might be what you want, but how does that realistically translate to a majority of the playerbase?

I do agree that there are games where the point is to be on that top %, but WoW is a MMORPG, a social game with an involved lore and setting, and "casuals" are a big part of that playerbase. It's not easy, but if you want to keep most of your playerbase happy, you can't bank on adding exclusive rewards only for the top % of players, cause you're literally alienating most of the playerbase then.

Portals and other conveniences that top % players have need of would be far better rewards. If you rewards things that are actually tied to the type of progression you push for instead of cosmetics, you don't run into the same level of risk than alienating all the rest of the playerbase that likes cosmetic rewards.

1000% this.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

Thanks for the laugh in the morning. You really don't see anything wrong with your thoughts? xD

Also laughable:

https://i.gyazo.com/1bcb05e95b834cd5...a526a78b76.png

`??, just cuz youre bad the rest is not

[Yarathir]

It honestly wouldn't be that bad if getting your +15 or gladiator rank gave you a unique token currency for each type of content that you could spend on a mount from any season, then you could get the mount you wanted. For instance, lets say the Dragonflight mounts for M+ are awful and you missed a season of Shadowlands, a currency system with a vendor would allow you to get the Shadowlands season 1 mount instead of getting a mount you don't want. It would motivate people to get a +15 while removing the FOMO, instead of just removing mount acquisition forever.

Yeah, that's fine. That's just rewarding people for doing difficult (or semi-difficult) content. If that was how they did it, I'd have 0 complaints and it would be superior to how it's currently handled.

[RobertMugabe]

no 0.1% cuttoff is 3540 IO (25+) in time +20s is casual content done by like 5-10% or so

5-10% of the existing m+ playerbase though, not the wow playerbase as a whole.

Thanks for the clarification though, I thought it was less considering m+ players only.

[Lady Atia]

no 0.1% cuttoff is 3540 IO (25+) in time +20s is casual content done by like 5-10% or so

It's not casual content if 5-10% of m+ players do it, even less if you count every wow player.