I enjoy all of the major content creators getting on board with the hype/speculation. Puts more pressure on Blizzard to deliver *something* even if the foundation of the speculation is shaky.
I enjoy all of the major content creators getting on board with the hype/speculation. Puts more pressure on Blizzard to deliver *something* even if the foundation of the speculation is shaky.
I'll repeat what I said before because you either still don't understand this, or don't want to:
• River flowing downhill: natural.
• River flowing uphill: supernatural.
• Ice melting under the hot summer sun: natural.
• Ice forming under the hot summer sun: supernatural.
• Rain happening outside during a heavy cloudy day: natural.
• Rain happening indoors during an open sky day: unnatural.
Meaning death knights having access to "supernatural cold" only means they have access to ice magic, not that their magic is "not natural".
"Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
"You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
"They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...
Your the one who doesn't understand, River's don't exist without magic, Ice doesn't exist without magic, Rain doesn't exist without magic, Same with fire same with plants same with every thing else.
All of theses and all of there functions are brought about by magic in warcraft they literally would not exist without the native magic's of the great dark.
All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.
Then every single little thing in the Warcraft franchise is "natural" meaning Blizzard "objectively lied" when they said the death knights are imbued with "supernatural cold" because there is no such thing as "supernatural" since you say "everything is magic" and "magic is natural".
No. You're wrong.
Rivers can and do exist without magic. So does rain. Rain does not need magic to happen naturally. Fire does not need magic to happen naturally.
By your logic, you can not only kill but completely erase someone out of existence by casting "dispel magic" on them.
"Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
"You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
"They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...
Yes Blizzard "objectively lied" Because they don't agree with you because only you can be right any one who doesn't agree with you are wrong or if they are the arbitor of a universe they are just "objectively lying" to hide the truth of your rightness.
It's not like they made a book which lays out the role of magic in creating every thing, which magics are Innate to which realm's and which are not, said book wouldn't cover how the elements make up every thing in the great dark or how all life is bound by Spirit. Alas if only such a book existed preferably something with a catchy name that Started with C or something.
All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.
Death Coil - not a Frost spell.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Necromancerhttps://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/The...c_-_Necromancy
Rather you want to say it comes from the shadowlands or not it does come form necromancy.
Then, you're not familiar with Drain Life, Siphon Life or Phantom Singularity, which drain the life of the enemy, dealing damage and healing the caster.I wouldn’t say they do both have those properties. Fel drains life to create more Fel which destroys the life utterly, death corrupts life and changes twisting it but not destroying it. Neither of these are any thing touch of the grave by the way.
For more info about how Fel and death you should read chronicles where they go over them both and all other magic
This is not Mana Tap. The draining of magic sources for more magic (mana). This is clearly for the purpose of draining the vitality out of someone to rejuvenate oneself - a clear necromantic characteristic.
Huh? They're the Orcs' version of Necromancers? Orcs didn't have Necromancers? You do realize Necromancers on Azeroth appeared way after the Orcs came into Azeroth, right? What's Azerothian about Necromancers? You mean Scourge? Because the origin of Necromancers in in Maldraxxus.they are necromancers in the same way sunwalkers are paladins, they fall into a same group but a necromancer is the Azeroth way of doing things while Necrolyte’s are the orc way of doing it.
And what differentiates them from priest or Nat is that Nat looked into there teachings but didn’t just copy them she added the void into the mix instead of just sticking with death magic.
that’s kinda what happens when we are interpreting sparse lore, we both do so in different ways and come to different conclusions.
What's with the PitLord on the path of Glory?The only difference what the two of us are doing is that I’m cross referencing the sparse lore with other instances of similar things happening and the following effects (see pit lord on path of glory), while your not.
You're just claiming my examples are the exception instead of the rule.
They describe almost every unit that way (see: Beastmaster, Demon Hunter, etc...)
Night elves had a blindfold face option since vanilla. Did it prevent the Demon Hunter from being added?Like having both Night Warrior as a customization and a new class.
Hinting.Which has what to do with 11.0?
Haven't you seen my cinematics analysis thread?
None of them? You follow Arthas until you break free when you create a Death Knight.Because none of them followed Arthas or Illidan, while your theory is Sylvanas still leads these new Dark Rangers and created them after her redemption.
This is how you are explaining it. I asked you how it would work, and this is what you've presented so far.
You follow Illidan all the way through. He's still the Illidari leader and you're still part of it.
I don't know what you're on about, really....
How is this relevant?And we don't have playable Dreadlords do we?
So, why are you expecting the same for Dark Rangers?What implies they have a choice? They are supernatural beings animated by necromancy. You expect them to start using Druidism or something?
Demon Hunters have a choice. Do you see them getting Lightforged because they're good guys now?
First of all, i already gave you the Nathanos example, whose body turned to ash once he replaced it with that of his uncle.The entire theme of Banshee and Torment is based on Sylvanas' own torment. It is an expression of her character. That is what makes Dark Ranger more unique and different than Death Knights or Demon Hunters, who are effectively sourcing borrowed power; DKs through channeled runeblades and DH through their fel-powered souls. Dark Rangers who use Banshee powers were literally explained as Banshees who reclaimed their bodies. That can't really happen with the NE in the maw. They have no bodies.. They burned with Teldrassil. Those warriors which we knew who died fighting were already raised by Sylvanas, and to our knowledge, not as Banshees reclaiming their bodies.
So the origin of what you want represented and what you're explaining in your theory are conflicting. It makes no sense. So are you going to make sense of it?
Second of all, not all Dark Rangers would be Night elves. We're expecting High\Blood elves as well. And, if possible, other races such a Humans and Forsaken. These will have nothing to do with the Burning of Teldrassil, but other causes of Death. You think they really give a deep thought on where Death Knight bodies come from? No. They just said a race encountered the Scourge, died, and was raised into a Death Knight. So, why are you giving so much thought into the process?
We're currently talking Dark Rangers. Not other classes.I am open to the possibility. It simply remains a very low one that has no compelling, realistic theory to how it would happen.
I remain open to the possibility of Bards and Runemasters. How they get added is anyone's guess too, right? And I don't expect them to be their own standalone classes. If someone started arguing that Bards and Runemasters should be playable classes, I would then ask how they actually think a new class would be realistically plausible, as I asked you here.
So far you've provided nothing realistically worth discussing. Nothing actually makes sense in regards to what you actually want.
And you still haven't answered if the way other dark, Hero classes were added is okay with you in terms of Dark Ranger addition.
These are options. You really take it too seriously, like i'm responsible for writing this story and like Blizzard isn't coming with new things and ways every single expansion.Right now it's Mawsworn Kyrians raising NE from the maw to follow Sylvanas and all become Dark Wardens and Dark Rangers under her command. I mean, how realistic would this happen? I get Danuser is a massive Sylvanas simp, but even this is a stretch.
If not the Mawsworn, then Sylvanas. Or any other powerful being with Necromancy powers.
It can literally be any corpse. Maw Night elves are not the only option.
Why wouldn't it happen? Didn't Arthas raise new Death Knights? Didn't Bolvar? Didn't Illidan train new Demon Hunters? What makes this case so incredibly different?
Because they are waiting for the next patch... Shhh don't spoil it for everyone
Dude, you're the one saying "nothing is supernatural because magic is natural". So when Blizzard says something supernatural exists, either they're wrong, or you're wrong. Guess what which one of the two is more likely to be wrong in that case? Here's a hint: it's not Blizzard.
The origin of the Warcraft universe doesn't matter one iota here. It doesn't matter at all if the whole universe was created through magic. Because Because we're talking about natural processes right now. And the effects of magic are simply not natural, and I gave several examples of that. Examples you keep trying to brush under the rug.
But for you, apparently all a farmer has to do to seed his field is say 'abracadabra' and he'd immediately have his fields ready for harvest. All a mason has to do to build a new house is to say 'alakazam' and a house is built in a second. All a blacksmith has to do to forget a new piece of armor is to wave a small, thin wooden wand in the air and there's a new piece of armor on the table, no materials required. Apparently.
"Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
"You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
"They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...
Yes, which shows how ambiguous definitions these words are in the lore. You ask ambiguous questions that have no clear definition, what do you expect an answer of?
No, and neither does having Dark Ranger Hood transmog that is already in the game.Night elves had a blindfold face option since vanilla. Did it prevent the Demon Hunter from being added?
Considering I never said anything prevents anything, I don't see why you even bother asking stupid questions that neither if us agree with. You know where my position is, you just want to project a bullshit argument that you know I am not making.
Yes. It yielded zero factual prediction in retrospect, and was full of confirmation bias from the beginning.Hinting.
Haven't you seen my cinematics analysis thread?
This is what also led you to falsely believe Night Warrior would be playable, as well as all the Shadowlands races.
Make a consistent theory then. Because DK and DH comparisons just conflict with what you propose.None of them? You follow Arthas until you break free when you create a Death Knight.
You follow Illidan all the way through. He's still the Illidari leader and you're still part of it.
Dark Rangers need a story and setting to fit. Sylvanas novel pretty much solidified them as being the very same Dark Rangers we already know of, who are getting some facetime in 9.2.5.So, why are you expecting the same for Dark Rangers?
Demon Hunters have a choice. Do you see them getting Lightforged because they're good guys now?
I have no reason to expect a DH/Illidari style introduction from the past involving Sylvanas. We already have Dark Rangers origins explained.
A ritual that still required a body, as well as Val'kyr.First of all, i already gave you the Nathanos example, whose body turned to ash once he replaced it with that of his uncle.
Where are the NE in the Maw all going to find new Night Elf bodies? I mean if you want NE Dark Rangers, we already have plenty since BFA. Not sure why you're theorizing it this way even.
The Lich King had the power himself to raise the dead.You think they really give a deep thought on where Death Knight bodies come from? No. They just said a race encountered the Scourge, died, and was raised into a Death Knight. So, why are you giving so much thought into the process?
Sylvanas does not unless we're talking about the time she had Val'kyr under her service.
Yes I have answered. Multiple times. I can't help it if you ignore my responses when it's convenient for youWe're currently talking Dark Rangers. Not other classes.
And you still haven't answered if the way other dark, Hero classes were added is okay with you in terms of Dark Ranger addition.
Let me ask you - do you think I am saying Dark Rangers are not possible?
If you know my answers, this and the rest should easily be understandsble to you.
Because Illidan and Arthas had the power to raise and train new DKs and DHs that do what they do.Didn't Arthas raise new Death Knights? Didn't Bolvar? Didn't Illidan train new Demon Hunters? What makes this case so incredibly different?
Sylvanas does not have the power to create or train new Dark Rangers who have Banshee powers and Night Warrior powers as you so desire. That is the difference.
And none of your explanations for how and why new Dark Rangers would be made make much sense. How would any of them satisfy your own concept of a Dark Ranger at all? There aren't even Blood Elf Sylvanas loyalists in the maw in great number.
Last edited by Triceron; 2022-05-22 at 07:57 PM.
Dark ranger shouldve been a spec for hunters years ago
No you are the only who one made the claim that either every thing has to be natural or nothing is, I’ve already laid out how blizzard divides the great dark from other realms and how the magics that pervade the great dark are natural to it while the ones in other realms aren’t as laid out in chronicles.
But according to you blizzard is just lying when they explain Warcraft’s existence because there explanation doesn’t agree with you.
- - - Updated - - -
I don’t know why your linking the necromancer page or citing death coil. said pages uses the ingame book as a reference and the ingame book cites the chill of death as one of the powers necromancy has and that would be where there frost powers come from not arcane.
warlock drain life’s turns said life into Fel to power spells we have multiple lore examples of this in multiple books, the in game effects of spells doesn’t always line up with with how they actually work in the lore and this is one example we age plenty of lore uses to point to.Then, you're not familiar with Drain Life, Siphon Life or Phantom Singularity, which drain the life of the enemy, dealing damage and healing the caster.
This is not Mana Tap. The draining of magic sources for more magic (mana). This is clearly for the purpose of draining the vitality out of someone to rejuvenate oneself - a clear necromantic characteristic.
sign… this is why I used sun walker and paladins as an example. Sun walkers aren’t actually paladins in the lore they use the same power but use it in different ways and have different cultural practices.Huh? They're the Orcs' version of Necromancers? Orcs didn't have Necromancers? You do realize Necromancers on Azeroth appeared way after the Orcs came into Azeroth, right? What's Azerothian about Necromancers? You mean Scourge? Because the origin of Necromancers in in Maldraxxus.
On dreanor the study of death magic in the orc society lead to Necrolyte’s, on Azeroth it lead to necromancers, they both use death magic but the cultural differences leads to them approaching it form different ways. The shadowlands necromancers are the same thing they share the name with the one on Azeroth but are totally different in practice and approach again because of the different cultures in the shadowlands lead by the Primus.
So if you were looking to classify them in the same ways the wow classes are they would all fall into necromancers even if each is distinct in there own ways, just like how Prelates sun walkers vindicators ect all fall into paladins even though they aren’t the same and just use the same power source.
I how ever wouldn’t bother going for a class esc designation I don’t know why your linking the necromancer page or citing death coil. said pages uses the ingame book as a reference and the ingame book cites the chill of death as one of the powers necromancy has and that’s where there frost powers come from not arcane.
warlock drain life’s turns said life into Fel to power spells we have multiple lore examples of this in multiple books, the in game effects of spells doesn’t always line up with with how they actually work in the lore and this is one example we age plenty of lore uses to point to.Then, you're not familiar with Drain Life, Siphon Life or Phantom Singularity, which drain the life of the enemy, dealing damage and healing the caster.
This is not Mana Tap. The draining of magic sources for more magic (mana). This is clearly for the purpose of draining the vitality out of someone to rejuvenate oneself - a clear necromantic characteristic.
sign… this is why I used sun walker and paladins as an example. Sun walkers aren’t actually paladins in the lore they use the same power but use it in different ways and have different cultural practices.Huh? They're the Orcs' version of Necromancers? Orcs didn't have Necromancers? You do realize Necromancers on Azeroth appeared way after the Orcs came into Azeroth, right? What's Azerothian about Necromancers? You mean Scourge? Because the origin of Necromancers in in Maldraxxus.
On dreanor the study of death magic in the orc society lead to Necrolyte’s, on Azeroth it lead to necromancers, they both use death magic but approach it from different cultural ways. Same with the shadowlands necromancers although they share a name with the ones on Azeroth there approach is different due to the culture of the shadowlands.
So just like sunwalkers prelates and Norma paladins If you wanted to give them a class esc designation they would fall into necromancer even though they all approach it form different cultures and just use the same powers.
I personally wouldn’t bother with lumping them together though and would just call them Necrolyte’s.
The Pitlord on the path of glory dies on thousands of skeletons and none are raised and other pit lords die on body’s and none are raised.What's with the PitLord on the path of Glory?
You're just claiming my examples are the exception instead of the rule.
So then the question why did that one Pitlord raise a undead? It’s not something that’s innate to Fel blood as the other Pitlord don’t do the same when they die, it’s not something innate to that one Pitlord and his as he dies again on the broken shore where there are plenty of body’s and none are raised.
So if it’s not something Fel blood does and it’s not that one Pitlords own powers that leaves two options, it’s something to do with Fel on dragons, or it’s something to do with the dead scar which is already full of necromatic energies and is already raising undead all on its own.
All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.
That's a dumb misrepresentation to make considering the whole point of my arguments was to show that supernatural exists, so you accusing me of saying "everything is natural" is nonsensical.
I've already laid out how we have natural processes and supernatural processes, when magic is involved. Another evidence of that is that when the Loa intervene with something, it's called a "supernatural" aid.
"Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
"You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
"They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...
You are the only one who has Said if magic is natural then all magic's have to be natural and blizzard "objectively lied" when they said supernatural cold while continuously ignoring me pointing to chronicle's and how they lay out what magic's are innate to the great dark and pervade through every part of it.
You may have also noticed that I have not pointed towards the wild gods/Loa at all as an example of what is natural and have instead pointed towards the elements and Spirit. The reason why I've ignored the Loa is because if you had actually looked into chronicle's you'd know that just like the elemental plains they are a byproduct of the Titan keepers and are not natural to Azeroth. Unlike say the proto drake's who came about naturally from effects of Spirit and the elements.
All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.
Right.
I'm done constantly trying to explain and demonstrate the differences between natural effects and supernatural effects to you. If you want everything is natural and Blizzard was lying when they said "supernatural" exists, then sure, go on believing that.
I'm done.
"Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
"You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
"They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...
All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.
You can clearly define the Dark Ranger, Night Warrior and Warden. Why not the Blademaster?
"We already have Night Warrior because of black eyes" - TriceronNo, and neither does having Dark Ranger Hood transmog that is already in the game.
Considering I never said anything prevents anything, I don't see why you even bother asking stupid questions that neither if us agree with. You know where my position is, you just want to project a bullshit argument that you know I am not making.
Zero? It correctly predicted dragons.Yes. It yielded zero factual prediction in retrospect, and was full of confirmation bias from the beginning.
Falsely? So, it is a sure thing now?This is what also led you to falsely believe Night Warrior would be playable, as well as all the Shadowlands races.
How so?Make a consistent theory then. Because DK and DH comparisons just conflict with what you propose.
So did the Illidan novel provide background on the Illidari. Did it prevent Demon Hunter from being added?Dark Rangers need a story and setting to fit. Sylvanas novel pretty much solidified them as being the very same Dark Rangers we already know of, who are getting some facetime in 9.2.5.
I have no reason to expect a DH/Illidari style introduction from the past involving Sylvanas. We already have Dark Rangers origins explained.
You're pushing me towards providing more and more because you're never satisfied. There's nothing wrong with current Dark Rangers, or whatever lies around in the graveyards around Azeroth.A ritual that still required a body, as well as Val'kyr.
Where are the NE in the Maw all going to find new Night Elf bodies? I mean if you want NE Dark Rangers, we already have plenty since BFA. Not sure why you're theorizing it this way even.
Sylvanas raised skeletons during the Siege of Lordaeron.The Lich King had the power himself to raise the dead.
Sylvanas does not unless we're talking about the time she had Val'kyr under her service.
Since then, her power grew. We can only assume that she can, or that her Mawsworn Kyrian can serve as a replacement for Val'kyr.
Not if Dark Ranger is possible.Yes I have answered. Multiple times. I can't help it if you ignore my responses when it's convenient for you
Let me ask you - do you think I am saying Dark Rangers are not possible?
If you know my answers, this and the rest should easily be understandsble to you.
If the standard Death Knight and Demon Hunter addition can be applied to Dark Rangers.
Sylvanas already showed being capable of raising Dark Rangers through her Val'kyr, something that can be replaced by Mawsworn Kyrian. Training is no issue, as even Nathanos can do so.Because Illidan and Arthas had the power to raise and train new DKs and DHs that do what they do.
Sylvanas does not have the power to create or train new Dark Rangers who have Banshee powers and Night Warrior powers as you so desire. That is the difference.
And none of your explanations for how and why new Dark Rangers would be made make much sense. How would any of them satisfy your own concept of a Dark Ranger at all? There aren't even Blood Elf Sylvanas loyalists in the maw in great number.
Again, it doesn't have to be Maw souls. You just pushed me into providing an answer.
Read the first paragraph on that page. It has what you quoted here, only with links:
"Necromancers are practitioners of necromancy (also called the dark arts or the black arts) the study and use of magic to raise and control the dead. Necromantic magic (or death magic) has many functions beyond simply raising the dead. Masters of this tainted field of magic can conjure festering diseases, harness the shadows into bolts of incendiary energy, and chill the living with the power of death. Necromancy can also be used to reconstruct the flesh of undead creatures, allowing them to function again even after the foul monsters have been destroyed".
You're talking about Gul'dan's draining in the Warcraft movie?warlock drain life’s turns said life into Fel to power spells we have multiple lore examples of this in multiple books, the in game effects of spells doesn’t always line up with with how they actually work in the lore and this is one example we age plenty of lore uses to point to.
It seems you are right. Though, the first Necrolyte was an Eredar. And, the Scourge also has Necrolytes.sign… this is why I used sun walker and paladins as an example. Sun walkers aren’t actually paladins in the lore they use the same power but use it in different ways and have different cultural practices.
On dreanor the study of death magic in the orc society lead to Necrolyte’s, on Azeroth it lead to necromancers, they both use death magic but the cultural differences leads to them approaching it form different ways. The shadowlands necromancers are the same thing they share the name with the one on Azeroth but are totally different in practice and approach again because of the different cultures in the shadowlands lead by the Primus.
So if you were looking to classify them in the same ways the wow classes are they would all fall into necromancers even if each is distinct in there own ways, just like how Prelates sun walkers vindicators ect all fall into paladins even though they aren’t the same and just use the same power source.
I how ever wouldn’t bother going for a class esc designation
You mean in-game? By the player? Because that's different than lore. We kill many demons on our journey. It doesn't all get added to the lore.The Pitlord on the path of glory dies on thousands of skeletons and none are raised and other pit lords die on body’s and none are raised.
So then the question why did that one Pitlord raise a undead? It’s not something that’s innate to Fel blood as the other Pitlord don’t do the same when they die, it’s not something innate to that one Pitlord and his as he dies again on the broken shore where there are plenty of body’s and none are raised.
So if it’s not something Fel blood does and it’s not that one Pitlords own powers that leaves two options, it’s something to do with Fel on dragons, or it’s something to do with the dead scar which is already full of necromatic energies and is already raising undead all on its own.