If mythic plus got it's own "elite" armor mog, what do you think it should require?

[Feral Druid ist Op]

5-10% of the existing m+ playerbase though, not the wow playerbase as a whole.

Thanks for the clarification though, I thought it was less considering m+ players only.

im mean yea of the M+ player base but every one who did a single 2+ key is counted in in those statistics, a +20 Necrotic Wake will place you on rank 84,997 (i checked my alt) that means 84,996 chars have done a higher than +20 NW key this season alone

It's not casual content if 5-10% of m+ players do it, even less if you count every wow player.

like i said every one who did a single +2 (not even in time) key in counted in so there are more ppl than you think doing +20s

[Ghost of Cow]

a +20 Necrotic Wake will place you on rank 84,997 (i checked my alt) that means 84,996 chars have done a higher than +20 NW key this season alone

I'm (fairly) sure that's ranked by runs, not the actual number of individual characters that have done that run or higher.

A +20 NW will indeed put you in that ~80,000 range of runs on RIO, but those runs aren't distinct by character by any means.

[Coldkil]

no 0.1% cuttoff is 3540 IO (25+) in time +20s is casual content done by like 5-10% or so

Casual and 5% in the same sentence. Holy hell this thread is just a gold mine lol

[Jester Joe]

Casual and 5% in the same sentence. Holy hell this thread is just a gold mine lol

Sometimes I feel as if people here forget there's players who actually just log on to collect pets.

I'd say even doing a 10 starts to push the border on casual honestly

[Unlimited Power]

Speaking of high end rewards, it seems like Mythic raiders will be able to earn teleports to CN, SoD and Sepulcher only after clearing all of them on mythic difficulty in Season 4.

Keep in mind Blizzard said season 4 will be relatively short compared to previous seasons. What do y'all think of an incentive that will in all honesty be most useful for transmog farming in future expansions but will only be available to high end raiders?

I believe the dungeon teleports became available with the launch of 9.1 and could be acquired before season 2 began. In other words, they were useful for high end m+ pushers for most of the expansion.

With Sepulcher technically not being the final raid tier in season 4, I personally think the teleport should be a reward for clearing all the raids on heroic in season 4.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

Sometimes I feel as if people here forget there's players who actually just log on to collect pets.

I'd say even doing a 10 starts to push the border on casual honestly

Casual and 5% in the same sentence. Holy hell this thread is just a gold mine lol

you guys seems to confuse bad with casual, what i meant by casual is you can log in and pug a +20 with no big effort or "Meta" comp via Grp tool you know "Casualy" there are 1 night raid guilds Casualy clearing mythic casual doesn't mean less skilled. Hell my wr 30 guild is casual atm on farm we only raid 1 night a week and log off till reset day

[Jester Joe]

you guys seems to confuse bad with casual, what i meant by casual is you can log in and pug a +20 with no big effort or "Meta" comp via Grp tool you know "Casualy" there are 1 night raid guilds Casualy clearing mythic casual doesn't mean less skilled. Hell my wr 30 guild is casual atm on farm we only raid 1 night a week and log off till reset day

You cannot pug a 20 without putting in hours of work to get a score that would let people accept you.

You just have an incorrect view of casual.

[TheRevenantHero]

No thanks. I don't believe that that group of people (Raid/M+/Rated PvP) should be loaded more up with rewards than they already are. It'll just promote even more boosting as well.

This right here. We don't need more FOMO and we definitely don't need more ways for people to sell boosts.

[Hitei]

you guys seems to confuse bad with casual, what i meant by casual is you can log in and pug a +20 with no big effort or "Meta" comp via Grp tool you know "Casualy" there are 1 night raid guilds Casualy clearing mythic casual doesn't mean less skilled. Hell my wr 30 guild is casual atm on farm we only raid 1 night a week and log off till reset day

Ah yes, and Method doing 29 mage Ny'alotha heroic joke runs also makes them a "casual" guild.

[Celement]

Why does it have to be limited to being something neat for people who enjoy it and happened to be playing at the right time to get it?

It is the time-limited aspect that sucks, not the reward itself. I have the MoP CM gold set on my paladin, and I wish I could get it on my other characters. It wasn't remotely difficult to get; it was boring and took about 5 hours total, I didn't have it in me to repeat it on another character in MoP. I would absolutely have gone back and done it on another class had it remained available in WoD, because WoD had so little content to do (I didn't care for any of the CM weapons).

FOMO in games sucks the life out of them if done poorly, and WoW has been getting worse when it comes to FOMO for years now. The only time I don't hate FOMO is when the time-limited nature is on a schedule. For example the HH mount/valentine's mount/violet proto-drake are all examples of FOMO that is tolerable. You might miss out on it this year, but as long as the game is still around next year you'll have more chances at it. D3 is another example of how to handle FOMO at this with how it cycles cosmetic rewards on a seasonal basis. If WoW went that route and rotated through already existing cosmetics rather than completely locking away the older ones I think it would be much better for the game.

Keep the timestamps on achievements for people who want the prestige of having done it when it was current, but let everyone have access to the more visually interesting rewards later on.

So add in a token that you get after you complete the challenge a second time you get to buy old sets like rbg mounts?

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Speaking of high end rewards, it seems like Mythic raiders will be able to earn teleports to CN, SoD and Sepulcher only after clearing all of them on mythic difficulty in Season 4.

Keep in mind Blizzard said season 4 will be relatively short compared to previous seasons. What do y'all think of an incentive that will in all honesty be most useful for transmog farming in future expansions but will only be available to high end raiders?

I believe the dungeon teleports became available with the launch of 9.1 and could be acquired before season 2 began. In other words, they were useful for high end m+ pushers for most of the expansion.

With Sepulcher technically not being the final raid tier in season 4, I personally think the teleport should be a reward for clearing all the raids on heroic in season 4.

I kind of think that is a dumb reward tbh.. if you clear mythic when are you ever going to use that tp? By the time you have it you have all the transmog and odds are will get the mount so you wont be going back for it.

[Sialina]

I just think that if you're investing the time and resources to make something, the dumbest thing you could do is flush it down the toilet for no other reason than to stroke the ego of a relatively small number of players. Sure the FOMO might get some people playing when they otherwise might not, but at the same time, once the content/mount/item is removed, that's one less reason for someone to return or keep playing once they realize X thing that they were interested in is no longer available.

I think the other way around pretty much, what really is useless is making stuff that just adds to a huge pile of useless things. 16th recolor boar you get by accident as you were doing something else? No thanks, if anything we need less of that because it adds to an ever increasing pile of stuff that NOONE uses wants or displays except when trying to make the most ugly PC possible.
I wouldn't mind if timewalking was expanded to include old M+ seasons tho, just as they were, same talents and classes, with preset armor and talents from that season, and if you want the 2500 rating thing, you can simply timewalk back with your friends and earn the rating.

[Kyriani]

I think the other way around pretty much, what really is useless is making stuff that just adds to a huge pile of useless things. 16th recolor boar you get by accident as you were doing something else? No thanks, if anything we need less of that because it adds to an ever increasing pile of stuff that NOONE uses wants or displays except when trying to make the most ugly PC possible.
I wouldn't mind if timewalking was expanded to include old M+ seasons tho, just as they were, same talents and classes, with preset armor and talents from that season, and if you want the 2500 rating thing, you can simply timewalk back with your friends and earn the rating.

If Blizzard would ever devote the time and resources necessary to change how textures are made for wow (colors baked in) and make them dynamic (assignable colors), then we'd probably see less recolors... which is exactly why Blizz probably won't ever do that. Recolors are an excuse to reuse assets. Giving us any sort of dye system would render making recolors redundant as far as weapons and armor are concerned.

I like having lots of options for transmog and having mounts in a variety of colors that can match the outfits I put together. I just think it's a waste to make stuff just to remove it later. Like say the old elite pvp sets. Why shouldn't pvp'rs who get high ratings be able to get an old elite pvp mog? Pve'rs can always go back to solo mythic raids for their mogs a few expansions after the fact, but pvp'rs just outright lose the opportunity to ever get the old elite sets since they're tied to a specific season. I don't see any reason why someone who hits a high enough rating in pvp shouldn't be able to buy an old pvp set if they prefer that to the most current one.

[Lady Atia]

Speaking of high end rewards, it seems like Mythic raiders will be able to earn teleports to CN, SoD and Sepulcher only after clearing all of them on mythic difficulty in Season 4.

Keep in mind Blizzard said season 4 will be relatively short compared to previous seasons. What do y'all think of an incentive that will in all honesty be most useful for transmog farming in future expansions but will only be available to high end raiders?

I believe the dungeon teleports became available with the launch of 9.1 and could be acquired before season 2 began. In other words, they were useful for high end m+ pushers for most of the expansion.

With Sepulcher technically not being the final raid tier in season 4, I personally think the teleport should be a reward for clearing all the raids on heroic in season 4.

No. Normal gives a mount, and heroic a title. Which are the two difficulties most people can do regardless of their guild situation. It's ok if you don't get the portals because they are just nice to have things but not so much an issue if you can't get them, compared to a title or mount. And it mirrors the M+ rewards. People who only want cosmetics shouldn't be forced to do high end stuff imo.

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Why does it have to be limited to being something neat for people who enjoy it and happened to be playing at the right time to get it?

It is the time-limited aspect that sucks, not the reward itself. I have the MoP CM gold set on my paladin, and I wish I could get it on my other characters. It wasn't remotely difficult to get; it was boring and took about 5 hours total, I didn't have it in me to repeat it on another character in MoP. I would absolutely have gone back and done it on another class had it remained available in WoD, because WoD had so little content to do (I didn't care for any of the CM weapons).

FOMO in games sucks the life out of them if done poorly, and WoW has been getting worse when it comes to FOMO for years now. The only time I don't hate FOMO is when the time-limited nature is on a schedule. For example the HH mount/valentine's mount/violet proto-drake are all examples of FOMO that is tolerable. You might miss out on it this year, but as long as the game is still around next year you'll have more chances at it. D3 is another example of how to handle FOMO at this with how it cycles cosmetic rewards on a seasonal basis. If WoW went that route and rotated through already existing cosmetics rather than completely locking away the older ones I think it would be much better for the game.

Keep the timestamps on achievements for people who want the prestige of having done it when it was current, but let everyone have access to the more visually interesting rewards later on.

Interesting point about Diablo 3 - as soon as I realized that they were re-using seasonal rewards I quit that game. Felt super bamboozled by Blizzard and the whole seasonal reward-structure lost all their meaning for me.

[Nymrohd]

Speaking of high end rewards, it seems like Mythic raiders will be able to earn teleports to CN, SoD and Sepulcher only after clearing all of them on mythic difficulty in Season 4.

Keep in mind Blizzard said season 4 will be relatively short compared to previous seasons. What do y'all think of an incentive that will in all honesty be most useful for transmog farming in future expansions but will only be available to high end raiders?

I believe the dungeon teleports became available with the launch of 9.1 and could be acquired before season 2 began. In other words, they were useful for high end m+ pushers for most of the expansion.

With Sepulcher technically not being the final raid tier in season 4, I personally think the teleport should be a reward for clearing all the raids on heroic in season 4.

I mean sure it will probably be rare (unless the tuning becomes very forgiving which is very possible) but I don't feel you save such a huge amount of time. You can get to SoD and Sepulcher in a couple of minutes from Oribos anyway.

[Coldkil]

you guys seems to confuse bad with casual, what i meant by casual is you can log in and pug a +20 with no big effort or "Meta" comp via Grp tool you know "Casualy" there are 1 night raid guilds Casualy clearing mythic casual doesn't mean less skilled. Hell my wr 30 guild is casual atm on farm we only raid 1 night a week and log off till reset day

You seem to believe the only people playing is the ones doing 25+ and mythic raids, when the game was basically fueled by people paying their sub to do daily quests. You play in a WR30 guild and you call yourself casual, you really have zero idea of how this game actually works.

It's true that casual and skill are not on the same spectrum (one can be casual and good, or hardcore and bad) but this just shows how the vision of the game is completely skewed and full of bias depending on how someone plays the game.

I'm not trusting anyone until they talk in generic terms and if they say stuff like "i do X" i immediately dismiss them because it's literally "i play the game like this so should everyone else". From what i've seen lately, Blizzard is starting to disagree with this kind of reasoning. We'll see how it ends.

Back on topic: i feel again laughable how most people are against the idea of a seasonal elite xmog for high level m+ just because they already know they are not going to reach that level of gameplay/effort/skill and still pretend they should have a chance at it. And this comes from someone who doesn't have the time to eventually do something like that - it's literally comsetics. You don't need them for ANY reason. Remeber that FOMO only exists if you feel the need to have something, so it's a "you" problem and not the game.

[potis]

Back on topic: i feel again laughable how most people are against the idea of a seasonal elite xmog for high level m+ just because they already know they are not going to reach that level of gameplay/effort/skill and still pretend they should have a chance at it. And this comes from someone who doesn't have the time to eventually do something like that - it's literally comsetics. You don't need them for ANY reason. Remeber that FOMO only exists if you feel the need to have something, so it's a "you" problem and not the game.

But thats the whole argument the last few years, people that never had it, suddenly request it and even worst they request it in -their own time table-.

What i have understood lately, by the biggest screamers on here at least, is that basically they are expansion/patch hopping between games and they want the game to change to the timetable they want cause their life changed and they dont have the time to play all the games they want to play.

Despite never wearing the elite gladiator set when its active, and farming transmog runs for 10 years, nowadays the request seems to be "Give them to me now, in 1 sub cause i dont wanna pay more than that".

[Nymrohd]

You don't need them for ANY reason. Remeber that FOMO only exists if you feel the need to have something, so it's a "you" problem and not the game.

Here is the thing. Cosmetics are very important in a game when they enable archetype fantasies. WoW is a game with a magnificent wealth of hero character archetypes yet only allows a small number of them to be playable. Cosmetics can to some extent let you tune your character better with a desired archetype; I remember how many blood elf dark apotheosis warlock cosplaying as demon hunters existed in MoP because it was a very desirable archetype that we did not have access to.
This leads to cosmetics. Some limited cosmetics are time limited. Those same cosmetics can "click" when it comes to helping a player represent a desired archetype. Gladiator mounts and elite mogs can be quite unique, even if the latter are recolors; after all recolors can better represent a specific faction affiliation.
AS a long time RPer and GM, most game master books that describe player goals place "playing an archetype" among the top reasons people play RPGs (often either the top or right after variants on escapist power fantasy). It's human nature to enjoy playing roles and to find further enjoyment in immersion and playing them well; in a game environment like WoW that is mostly possible through customization.

So FOMO can just disincentivize a player from picking up a new character or even the game when they realize they can never really attain the archetype fantasy they are searching.

That said I don't think seasonal rewards are problematic or should be abolished. I do think it should be possible to earn them off season by completing tasks. Add a token you acquire at 2400 and then again at 3000 rating (good luck with that) which allows you to buy a different season's elite mog for your class. If they'd ever add seasonal mogs for M+ they could do the same; complete everything at +25 and you get a token to grab any past M+ mog you want for that character. If you can eventually get something, however grindy it might be and however far in the future you might get it, it still feels attainable.

[Soikona]

Tbh, I would rather have the teleports being the top thing you can get - it's a nice QoL improvement for pushers but not really a thing people will be sad if they miss out on them. Since you can get Elite Gear with I think .... 1,8k rating these days, M+ should mirror that roughly too, so I would go with something like this:

- All on 5 gives you a title (currently the reward for pushing 10's)
- All on 10 gives you a class specific, seasonal elite transmog
- All on 15 gives you a seasonal mount and dragonriding customization
- A 20 gives you a dungeon teleport, all on 20 gives you a weapon illusion

Really, the game should push more people to do M+ and Mythic raiding, but giving rewards to ~1% of players won't help with that - you need to make them available for the broad range of people if you want to make people play it more, simply because the amount of players who will or can do X amount of hard content for Y reward is quite low.

Another good example is the rewards structure of fated raids in season 4 - normal will give a mount, heroic a title and mythic just the teleports.

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Why do you want seasonal rewards? Because they look good or because you want people to notice you?

Both, if I see a CM set I will poke the person to talk about the good ole days! Be surprised how often it happens. And because they look good. If added to every tier, after a while tho of constantly chasing them, I would just go “meh CBA”.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

Ah yes, and Method doing 29 mage Ny'alotha heroic joke runs also makes them a "casual" guild.

in fact yes it was a casual pug raid with rnd players i was one of the mages btw, you are bad and thats okay but dont put limited time = to bad, just cuz some one has 4 hrs a week to play it dont mean he cant do the hadest content

[Nymrohd]

Both, if I see a CM set I will poke the person to talk about the good ole days! Be surprised how often it happens. And because they look good. If added to every tier, after a while tho of constantly chasing them, I would just go “meh CBA”.

What if each expansion had a M+ specific class set that stayed the same. You get a token once you complete everything at +20 and you can use that token at a vendor to either buy the mog or to buy a mount. THey can add more mounts in later seasons or maybe even a recolor (but not have a recolor every season).