(Leak?) Redshirt guy finds release date, main villain and allied race with preorder

[wowrefugee]

You don't recall all the work Blizzard had to do to refit the nightborne skeletons and stuff like that for the allied races?

Which is still less work than creating a brand new skeleton and animations!

You really believe void elves are as much work as a brand new race? How? Most of them don't even have custom dance animations. Most use the same animations as their parent races when it comes to running/walking/sitting.

If you did a checklist of things needed to create your average allied race and compared it to a brand new race, the latter would be longer.

I'm not saying they don't get work done on them - Vulpera tails and sitting animations, Nightborne posture changes, but it's not the same as a new race with new everything. Just logically there is more that goes into a new race.

[Triceron]

You don't recall all the work Blizzard had to do to refit the nightborne skeletons and stuff like that for the allied races?

That's wwaaayyyy less work than creating a whole new skeleton still.

[exochaft]

It doesn't. If they wanted to generate buzz and excitement, they'd have showcased the allied race during the expansion reveal, which would, again, make people excited to pre-order the expansion if they knew what they were going to get. But no, the expansion reveals makes no mention of any allied race or even the idea that we'd get another playable race aside from the dracthyr.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I will say this: since there was no pre-order date announced (or any pre-order news at all), it's feasible to think Blizz is holding back on some hype features to generate sales. If Blizz announced pre-orders started right after the reveal trailer, there'd definitely be more a case for there not being an allied race.

The problem is there's going to be a loooooong time between when the reveal for the next expansion was made and the actual release of the expansion. If you blow all your news now, it's going to be forgotten in a month. It'll be hyped for a while, but passions cool over time and people move on. This is why you see movies release teasers every now and then to generate hype, because unloading everything at once so far away from the actual content release isn't as good as trickling the hype.

All in all, it could go either way at this point. I'd be more inclined to think Blizz would at least want to add in another Allied race at some point this coming expansion, maybe not at launch necessarily. I think the best case against an Allied race at launch isn't the time/effort aspect to create it, but rather that they're releasing a new class and race at launch. Launching both at the same time would be counterproductive, and I could see the arguments and benefits for delaying an Allied race until 10.1.5 or 10.2.5 for their standard mini-hype to get people back into the game or remaining in the game.

[Desperado82]

Do we really need more edgy, dark-themed elves?

Do we really need more elves at all?

Is this becoming World of Elfcraft: Elfflight?

[Atriel]

Do we really need more edgy, dark-themed elves?

Do we really need more elves at all?

Is this becoming World of Elfcraft: Elfflight?

For all we know, it could be the opposite, and Calia makes more Lightforged Undead.

[Ielenia]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I will say this: since there was no pre-order date announced (or any pre-order news at all), it's feasible to think Blizz is holding back on some hype features to generate sales.

No, it's not "feasible" at all. It's a huge jump of logic. The whole idea behind the expansion reveal is to get people hyped to buy the expansion, especially through pre-orders, which is why it makes absolutely zero sense to not reveal something important like a new playable race in the expansion announcement and "leave it for later". It's counter-productive.

If Blizzard announced, for example, the tuskarr as a playable race in the expansion reveal, and then at a later date announced that the previously announced tuskarr race would be accessible as a "play it earlier as pre-order bonus", it would not only drive just as many people to pre-order the expansion, but it would also generate even more buzz in the days after the reveal.

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That's wwaaayyyy less work than creating a whole new skeleton still.

Are you talking models, or skeletons? Because "skeletons" are literally stick figures, the 'bones' of the animations.

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Which is still less work than creating a brand new skeleton and animations!

You really believe void elves are as much work as a brand new race?

Do you think people want "elf #69" or "troll #42" or "dwarf #13" races, or do they want things like ogres, tuskarr and other NPC races? Just because the tuskarr exist as NPCs (and expanded in dragonflight), it doesn't really make them any easier to make them into playable races than making one from scratch.

[Nightshade711]

For all we know, it could be the opposite, and Calia makes more Lightforged Undead.

If they make another allied race I’d prefer lightbound undead than yet another elf race.

Because so far we’ve got:
Night elves
Blood elves
Nightborne
Void Elves
Dracthyr visage forms

[wowrefugee]

.

Okay, as long as you have admitted that most allied races are less work than a brand new race, I’m satisfied. Good discussion.

[Triceron]

Are you talking models, or skeletons? Because "skeletons" are literally stick figures, the 'bones' of the animations.

I'm talking about what creating a new skeleton actually implies in relation to having them become a playable class.

There is waaaaay more work in making a new skeleton workable as a player race than it is to have an existing Player Race skeleton that already fully supports existing animations and hard points, and only requires adjustments to fit a new model. It saves even more time if the body structure is similar or even reused from an existing player race.

It would be like if I said writing an essay takes more work than transcribing one that's already written. I'm not talking about the technical skill of putting pen to paper or being able to type on a keyboard. I'm talking about the creative process that is involved in constructing a essay as opposed to merely copying one that already exists. You'd have to factor in the research, notations, blocking and brainstorming. Then there's the editing, the proofreading, and formalizing a final copy. If you're just transcribing an essay word for word, you're literally taking out most of the guesswork and iteration where most of the time and effort is spent.

Refitting Nightborne onto an existing skeleton is about the equivalent of effort as typing up an essay that already exists in front of you, word for word. It's only as much work as the technical skill of transcibing what's already there. You already know the end result since it's clearly in front of you.

[Unholyground]

Undead race. The Tirisfal updates, encrypted Calia, and cinematic camera used for in-game cutscenes and especially race introductions all but guarantees them, sadly, since Tuskarr are...well, fuckin' Tuskarr, I want them.

A neutral undead race makes sense with cross faction coming and Calia leading the forsaken.

[Atriel]

If they make another allied race I’d prefer lightbound undead than yet another elf race.

Because so far we’ve got:
Night elves
Blood elves
Nightborne
Void Elves
Dracthyr visage forms

I wouldn't mind them either, they could really reinforce the gilded gothic/catholic architecture and aesthetic. What I mean is, Azeroth's version of the Orzhov Guild from Ravnica: Magic The Gathering. That would be pretty unique for WoW.

[AngerFork]

It doesn't. If they wanted to generate buzz and excitement, they'd have showcased the allied race during the expansion reveal, which would, again, make people excited to pre-order the expansion if they knew what they were going to get. But no, the expansion reveals makes no mention of any allied race or even the idea that we'd get another playable race aside from the dracthyr.

Why? That would be sharing everything all at once, and the two races (Dracthyr & potential new allied race) would somewhat fight for their share of the spotlight. Most interviews that would've spent time fully on DF would instead have to take some time to talk about the new race reveal for 9.2.5, and then it would just be an expected cool new thing to see when the patch was revealed. This is especially true if the new race(s) would be something more related to Shadowlands like the Kyrian or a Dark Ranger-like race.

Comparatively, if they've hidden a race in this patch (big if, I don't really think they've done so) then they've added a spot of excitement right when pre-orders come out as well as something for players to work on during the likely content drought to come. That's absolutely going to help out excitement in WoW at a time where excitement could absolutely help.

What "new" is there to do if, by your own admission, the "allied race" doesn't have a new starting zone, and doesn't have "extra dances"? How would it be different than, for example, making another human and just selecting a different skin color?

Racials for one. There's something fun about seeing how a new set of racials influences the character, especially when they come with something like Mole Machine or the Vulpera Camping thing. You also have things like Heritage Armor & tabards that build excitement as you level. Plus new voices as well as certain extra customizations you don't see on the base races (fire beards for dwarves, void effects on hair, etc).

... That has zero relevance to this conversation.

Of course it has relevance. One of the constant complaints people have with WoW is how races & characters we've worked with in the past tend to get overlooked, especially when not playable. When was the last time you ran into a Taunka in game? Until DF, we really hadn't seen anything from the Tuskarr for some time. When you have a new race (allied or otherwise), part of the excitement is that those characters will potentially be a part of the story going forward.

[AxellSlade]

I wouldn't mind them either, they could really reinforce the gilded gothic/catholic architecture and aesthetic. What I mean is, Azeroth's version of the Orzhov Guild from Ravnica: Magic The Gathering. That would be pretty unique for WoW.

Y'all ignoring the furry elves coming as an Allied Race, please pay attentchun' to my reliable sources.

[Ersula]

Y'all ignoring the furry elves coming as an Allied Race, please pay attentchun' to my reliable sources.

Darkfallen with pre-order: Tuskarr & Gnolls halfway through the expansion. It is ordained.

[Ielenia]

I'm talking about what creating a new skeleton actually implies in relation to having them become a playable class.

Creating an animating a new skeleton is piss-easy. It's literally just a stick figure. The whole problem comes with rigging a model onto the skeleton and for the most part, allied races are not 100% copies of "parent races" (when they'er not whole new rigs altogether) so they still require a lot of work to make it work.

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Why? That would be sharing everything all at once, and the two races (Dracthyr & potential new allied race) would somewhat fight for their share of the spotlight.

Do tell me when have new playable races ever "fought for the spotlight" for TBC, Cataclysm and-- worse-- BfA, that showcased four allied races from the get-go and promised two more.

Comparatively, if they've hidden a race in this patch (big if, I don't really think they've done so) then they've added a spot of excitement right when pre-orders come out as well as something for players to work on during the likely content drought to come. That's absolutely going to help out excitement in WoW at a time where excitement could absolutely help.

Which, again, is dumb, because they would generate much more excitement by simply just revealing said "allied race" right from the get-go at the expansion reveal. This whole nonsense about "hiding it until pre-order" is a double-edged sword that harms you more than the opponent, because in that way people start wildly speculating, hyping themselves up for tuskarr, or ogres, or naga... basically everyone would have a different idea than it is, and then the overwhelming majority are disappointed because we get "troll #42" or "elf #69 (not high-elf)" or "dwarf #13" that nobody wanted.

Racials for one. There's something fun about seeing how a new set of racials influences the character, especially when they come with something like Mole Machine or the Vulpera Camping thing. You also have things like Heritage Armor & tabards that build excitement as you level. Plus new voices as well as certain extra customizations you don't see on the base races (fire beards for dwarves, void effects on hair, etc).

Heritage armors are coming to the normal races as well. Customizations can easily be given to the present races instead of making """"new"""" ones. Your only point is racials, and it's a weak one since those are mostly inconsequential and usually not a defining factor as to why one would pick a specific race over another.

Of course it has relevance.

It's irrelevant because we're talking about playable races, not classes. 'Dark ranger' is not a race, just like 'mage' is not a race and 'human' is not a class.

[Triceron]

Creating an animating a new skeleton is piss-easy. It's literally just a stick figure. The whole problem comes with rigging a model onto the skeleton and for the most part, allied races are not 100% copies of "parent races" (when they'er not whole new rigs altogether) so they still require a lot of work to make it work.

Yes but it's not about whether it's easy or hard.

It's about how much effort it takes to actually get done right, and approved by all the people involved with making a Player Race. Constant iteration is involved with the process which you're completely dismissing on the basis of it being 'easy to animate a skeleton'.

Have you done any professional animation at all to be in a position to speak about how 'easy' it is?

[AngerFork]

Do tell me when have new playable races ever "fought for the spotlight" for TBC, Cataclysm and-- worse-- BfA, that showcased four allied races from the get-go and promised two more.

And look at how that came out as far as attention & story. The Void Elves & Zandalari got a lot of the initial excitement with some for Dark Iron Dwarves. Highmountain Tauren & Lightforged Draenei really didn't seem to get the same sort of excitement from people in the community. The Mag'har Orcs barely even got any sort of reveal & their story seems to be more talked about for what happened to Yrel than who they are. Story-wise, most of the early Allied Races kind of had smaller role parts sprinkled around save maybe for the Void Elves. The later ones that were more tied to the story & weren't competing with anyone in their faction for the spotlight got much more focus for better or worse (better for most, worse for Mechagnomes).

Which, again, is dumb, because they would generate much more excitement by simply just revealing said "allied race" right from the get-go at the expansion reveal. This whole nonsense about "hiding it until pre-order" is a double-edged sword that harms you more than the opponent, because in that way people start wildly speculating, hyping themselves up for tuskarr, or ogres, or naga... basically everyone would have a different idea than it is, and then the overwhelming majority are disappointed because we get "troll #42" or "elf #69 (not high-elf)" or "dwarf #13" that nobody wanted.

That speculation is going to happen regardless of what Blizz says...it's what we're doing right now. All we know is that there is encrypted stuff out there (with bits & pieces is to what that might be) & that pre-orders aren't open, the rest is very much wild speculation. If this all turns out to be nothing, those same people will be disappointed just the same even though Blizz hasn't said anything. As far as the excitement from announcing it now vs. announcing it with the DF reveal, that might've been an initial burst of extra DF excitement, but you have to think about it in terms of headlines. Press-wise, they already had their big headline/interview blitz for the DF announcement, but then really wouldn't have much exciting to talk about in terms of WoW for most of the rest of the year. Alpha/Beta may bring some, but otherwise it's looking to be a pretty silent year. Having a big surprise in place for 9.2.5 and/or pre-orders would absolutely give another extra headline boost while at the same time serving as proof that Blizz can sneak something major under the radar.

Heritage armors are coming to the normal races as well. Customizations can easily be given to the present races instead of making """"new"""" ones. Your only point is racials, and it's a weak one since those are mostly inconsequential and usually not a defining factor as to why one would pick a specific race over another.

What customization to any other current "normal" race gives you a Vulpera? For that matter, why would the Zandalari be a customization for a Darkspear Troll or Kul'Tirans a customization for Humans, given that they are based on entirely different models? While there are definitely some Allied Races that could've worked better as customizations, there's a certain handful that have different base models & are wholly separated enough that calling them a customization just wouldn't fit. A new race (allied or otherwise) allows for some of these new models that don't fit the current customizations to be used as well as other races that have been in-game yet never used (e.g. Ogres). As far as the Heritage Armors go...they are in theory coming, sure, but there isn't the same time investment to unlock them which means that content is done fairly quickly.

It's irrelevant because we're talking about playable races, not classes. 'Dark ranger' is not a race, just like 'mage' is not a race and 'human' is not a class.

It's relevant because the rumored race that people have been putting out is a Darkfallen Race which includes the current Dark Rangers (though not as a class, but instead members of a race).

[Ielenia]

Yes but it's not about whether it's easy or hard.

It's about how much effort it takes to actually get done right, and approved by all the people involved with making a Player Race.

It's.
A.
"Skeleton".

It is literally nothing more than a stick figure. There is almost nothing really to "iterate" or "get approved" in it.

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And look at how that came out as far as attention & story. The Void Elves & Zandalari got a lot of the initial excitement with some for Dark Iron Dwarves. Highmountain Tauren & Lightforged Draenei really didn't seem to get the same sort of excitement from people in the community.

If "excitement" you mean "hate"? At least for the void elves, since nobody asked for them and that race was literally an asspull that did not exist in the game and lore until literally BfA came along, and because it trampled over the part of the game's community who wanted high elves in the Alliance.

The Mag'har Orcs barely even got any sort of reveal & their story seems to be more talked about for what happened to Yrel than who they are. Story-wise, most of the early Allied Races kind of had smaller role parts sprinkled around save maybe for the Void Elves. The later ones that were more tied to the story & weren't competing with anyone in their faction for the spotlight got much more focus for better or worse (better for most, worse for Mechagnomes).

That's the point of Allied Races. They're not supposed to be "big players" in the story being told, and at best fill in a supporting role.

That speculation is going to happen regardless of what Blizz says...it's what we're doing right now.

And guess how many people are going to be disappointed instead of happy when they find out this supposed """"""""""new allied race"""""""""" turns out not to be the one they wanted and/or speculated on? But if you showcase, from the get-go, what this supposed """"""""""new allied race"""""""""" is going to be, there is not going to be any disappointment the moment the pre-order season opens.

Again: there is absolutely zero merit to completely hide a new feature from the expansion reveal.

What customization to any other current "normal" race gives you a Vulpera? For that matter, why would the Zandalari be a customization for a Darkspear Troll or Kul'Tirans a customization for Humans, given that they are based on entirely different models?

Vulperas are not goblins. They are a completely separate race, despite sharing skeletons. The zandalari troll could easily be given to trolls by giving them an 'upright' stance option like they've done to orcs. Kul'tirans? They're literally 'fat humans' so it could be an option to give humans a beer belly and done.

It's relevant because the rumored race that people have been putting out is a Darkfallen Race which includes the current Dark Rangers (though not as a class, but instead members of a race).

If it's a race, then it's not a class, therefore it's not dark rangers. Dark rangers aren't a race just like paladin is not a race and orc is not a class.

[Triceron]

It's.
A.
"Skeleton".

It is literally nothing more than a stick figure. There is almost nothing really to "iterate" or "get approved" in it.

So you're implying a new Player Race only have a new skeleton and no nee animations to go with it? That is your argument?

[shoc]

Dreadlord or Man'ari goats would be sick

Lightforged Draenei should have been Light-redeemed Man'ari, like Lothraxion. I don't think it would be too late to add a bunch of formerly-demonic features to them.