Texas Elementary School Shooting, as many as 22 dead, including Children

[Edge-]

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-...m_npd_ms_tw_ma

In the continued "galaxy smooth brain" solutions from Republicans we have Rafael Cruz and his obsession with doors.

How many doors should a school have?

According to Ted, just one.

Why? Because it'll make it safer in the event there's a shooter, somehow.

Will there be any risks to say...evacuating the school during a fire? Probably, yeah, but that's a level of thinking that requires you to think about the consequences of a proposal, and Rafael Cruz has made it abundantly clear he's unable to think further than 5-10 minutes into the future.

[Levelfive]

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-...m_npd_ms_tw_ma

In the continued "galaxy smooth brain" solutions from Republicans we have Rafael Cruz and his obsession with doors.

How many doors should a school have?

According to Ted, just one.

Why? Because it'll make it safer in the event there's a shooter, somehow.

Will there be any risks to say...evacuating the school during a fire? Probably, yeah, but that's a level of thinking that requires you to think about the consequences of a proposal, and Rafael Cruz has made it abundantly clear he's unable to think further than 5-10 minutes into the future.

Everyone knows the root of the gun problem in America is too many...doors, which other countries must not have too many of, otherwise that explanation would be completely absurd.

[Ivanstone]

Carbine rifles are still rifles...



The US military had no widespread use of the various CAR-15 carbine models. They were mainly used by some Navy SEALS and Air Force pilots.

They were also not the same as the civilian models, notably.



Uh... no.

There was no standard infantry carbine for 20 years between the M1 and the M4, and since then the M4 has largely phased out the longer M16, starting in 2010. The trend to move towards one primary rifle model has been around for a long, long time. Prior to that, more M1 carbines were produced than M1 Garands. At first, they went for the lighter caliber but longer length in the M16, then moved down to the shorter length in the M4.

Now, they'll be changing over to the Sig XM5, which is still carbine-length, but moving back to a heavier (though not as heavy as 7.62x51mm or .30-06) caliber for the standard-issue military infantry firearm.



No, sorry, you said:

You didn't say carry capacity, you definitely said magazine capacity. That's the only statement you initially made, and to which I objected.



The admittedly anecdotal information is out there. Knock yourself out.



"Military style" is a completely meaningless euphemism in this context. Again, there's nothing fundamentally different between an AR-15 and another semi-automatic small-caliber rifle, of which there are lots and have been for a long, long time.



And there are an awful lot of regulations on firearms, too.



Hardly the only difference, actually. The restrictions on speech are only there to specifically prevent damaging abuse, whereas most new proposed gun control measures seek to limit normal use in the hopes that it will trickle down to some later instance of damaging abuse, somewhere, somehow.

Gun control measures that directly target the abuse/abuser are totally fine, but they're mostly all already enacted.

All you're really doing is showing the US military changes its mind more often than I thought. Its largely irrelevant. The AR 15 is marketed as a masculine, military style weapon. It can be fired quickly even as a semi-automatic and can have very large magazine capacities. Even a semi-competent individual can do a lot of damage in a very short amount of time. And also over an extended period of time.

You DON'T need it for hunting. Seriously, just stop being an insecure asshole and get a rifle with a lower magazine capacity. Preferably a bolt action. It works for other countries.

You DON'T need it for self-defence. Successful self-defence is rare to begin with. Actual self-defence with an AR15 is non existent. One frequently cited example is the Sutherlands Church Shooting. Dude drove off the attacker with his AR15. After the attacker killed 26 people and injured 20. Also with an AR15. He was less effective than the Uvalde police department.

Does losing some rights suck? Sure. So does getting shot with an AR15 either deliberately or by accident. You're never going to be 100% free. If you don't like, fuck off and go live in the woods by yourself.

I know one guy who likes to shoot guns. He doesn't own a gun. Doesn't want to own a gun. He's quite happy to go on vacation to a decent gun range and use what ever happens to be on hand.

[gondrin]

Continues to be hilarious to me that podunk little towns and counties with nobody fuckin living there and no meaningful violent crime that heavily armed law enforcement are needed for always manage to find the budget for heavily armed SWAT teams, complete with military-grade vehicles that they have no use for.

Fuckin defund the police indeed, start spending that money on something actually effective instead of giving them tanks and more tacticool gear.

And yet it was the Border Patrol that actually did the job, not their SWAT team nor their actual police. I say that the citizens should sue the city for their money back.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-...m_npd_ms_tw_ma

In the continued "galaxy smooth brain" solutions from Republicans we have Rafael Cruz and his obsession with doors.

How many doors should a school have?

According to Ted, just one.

Why? Because it'll make it safer in the event there's a shooter, somehow.

Will there be any risks to say...evacuating the school during a fire? Probably, yeah, but that's a level of thinking that requires you to think about the consequences of a proposal, and Rafael Cruz has made it abundantly clear he's unable to think further than 5-10 minutes into the future.

Someone should tell Mr. Cancun Cruz that windows are a perfectly good way of entering/exiting a building. Most schools have them and are required to have them. This isn't The Sims or some random game where you can't make use of your environment.

[Edge-]

https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/s...71595553939457

Republican solution? "man traps" triggered by tripwires. Because I guess that's...safe in a school with kids?

Fuckin smoothbrains out there.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-...oter-rcna30511

More on Republicans being awful people: They're out there harassing a trans woman by claiming she was actually the shooter. Claiming images were from 4chin.

They weren't, they were from her social media accounts.

Republicans are just filth. Period.

[Draco-Onis]

And yet it was the Border Patrol that actually did the job, not their SWAT team nor their actual police. I say that the citizens should sue the city for their money back.

They would lose the supreme court has already ruled that police officers are not obligated to do their jobs.

[gondrin]

They would lose the supreme court has already ruled that police officers are not obligated to do their jobs.

I didn't say the police. I said the city. Or at least get a bill that can be voted on where a person can claim a refund for city services not done when supposed to.

[Edge-]

https://twitter.com/VAKruta/status/1529977770931113987

So, 7 officers at the school. They were waiting for backup to "help evacuate" the school and take on the shooter as he murdered more children.

Why didn't they go in? According to the law enforcement spokesperson, they could have been shot...because they didn't know where the shooter was...and didn't want to go in to find him...

Remind me again why we pay cops if they can just like...decide to not do their fuckin job when it's literally supremely important that they, trained and armed individuals, do their jobs?

I'm super cereal here. What are we paying them for if they can just say, "Nah, I'll let a bunch of kids die."? Is it just to hang out at speed traps and hand out tickets? Harass people of color for diving while not being white?

Whoever that spokesperson is, they need to pull his ass ASAP if they want to hope to turn around sentiment about their chickenshit, stupid ass, cowardly cops. He keeps making things worse.

[Kaleredar]

https://twitter.com/VAKruta/status/1529977770931113987

So, 7 officers at the school. They were waiting for backup to "help evacuate" the school and take on the shooter as he murdered more children.

Why didn't they go in? According to the law enforcement spokesperson, they could have been shot...because they didn't know where the shooter was...and didn't want to go in to find him...

Remind me again why we pay cops if they can just like...decide to not do their fuckin job when it's literally supremely important that they, trained and armed individuals, do their jobs?

I'm super cereal here. What are we paying them for if they can just say, "Nah, I'll let a bunch of kids die."? Is it just to hang out at speed traps and hand out tickets? Harass people of color for diving while not being white?

Whoever that spokesperson is, they need to pull his ass ASAP if they want to hope to turn around sentiment about their chickenshit, stupid ass, cowardly cops. He keeps making things worse.

And the unfortunate fact of the matter is that, even IF some resolution is reached about the roll of the police here and how they failed... It's all still distracting from the very real and necessary need for gun control measures.

[Edge-]

It's all still distracting from the very real and necessary need for gun control measures.

Nope, it's an issue about doors.

And bulletproof blankets.

And man-traps.

And armed guards.

And armed teachers.

And armed kids.

And bulletproof backpacks.

And tripwires.

And bigger fences.

And metal detectors.

And religion.

And mental health (but not for the survivors who just get to live with lifelong trauma of seeing their classmates and teachers murdered around them).

And videogames.

And covid vaccines.

And young men looking at women on social media.

Not guns.

Yes, those are all real, "serious" ideas offered up by the smoothest brains in the conservative intelligencia.

[Kaleredar]

Nope, it's an issue about doors.

And bulletproof blankets.

And man-traps.

And armed guards.

And armed teachers.

And armed kids.

And bulletproof backpacks.

And tripwires.

And bigger fences.

And metal detectors.

And religion.

And mental health (but not for the survivors who just get to live with lifelong trauma of seeing their classmates and teachers murdered around them).

And videogames.

And covid vaccines.

And young men looking at women on social media.

Not guns.

Yes, those are all real, "serious" ideas offered up by the smoothest brains in the conservative intelligencia.

Others have said it before, but it's truly the peak of "we've tried nothing, and we're all out of ideas!"

[beanman12345]

Imagine arguing the pedantry of people not being wholly educated about firearm nuance when 19 kids will never know those differences because they were shot dead in an institute that exists to educate and prepare them for life after childhood.

Fuck the “freedoms” of people when this was the system working . At some point, you grow up and realise that even if you aren’t a piece of shit, the freedoms you want are allowing this, and you have to now accept that maybe you need to make the sacrifice of not having accessible guns. I know those selfish kids didn’t want to sacrifice themselves for you, but maybe you can stand up and say, “I appreciate what I have and will give up some to curb or stop this rampant destruction”.

Some people grow up and realize they are a mountain of shit, and just make life as miserable to everyone else as possible.

[Trifle]

The same place where it says that the 1st Amendment doesn't apply when someone yells "Fire!" in a crowded room, or uses certain types of extreme hate-speech.

That's the point of case law.

So case law (judges making up random shit for their rulings) is allowed to trump the constitution, but actual laws congress passed aren't ?

I don't even disagree with your examples here, but it's the peak of lunacy to on one hand say that you aren't going to follow the constitution because it would lead to bad outcomes (calls for violence, felons with firearms) while also saying you can't possibly do something because it's against the constitution and the constitution should never be changed.

[Edge-]

Others have said it before, but it's truly the peak of "we've tried nothing, and we're all out of ideas!"

I love all the folks posting the "thin blue line" flag writing "These colors don't run...into a schools to save dying children."

Also hilarious to see /r/conservative censoring a top comment from one of the leopards realizing that multiple school shootings have happened at schools with armed guards or law enforcement present...and maybe that "a good guy with a gun" isn't actually the solution.

They can't have none of that there thinkin there.

[s_bushido]

a top comment from one of the leopards

...what does "leopard" mean in this context?

Anyway, if what's being said about them standing around refusing to do anything while kids are being killed inside is true, I have no idea how even the people who normally fellate the police any chance they get can defend them in this. What's the point in all that """training""" and military gear if they don't put any of it to use when it actually matters?

[PhaelixWW]

...what does "leopard" mean in this context?

Trump voters.

[XDurionX]

As i understand, parts of this speech haven't aired in Texas due to "technical mistakes".

[Rasulis]

Uvalde school district made extensive security preparations that failed to stop shooting

Five different agencies took part in a simulation in August 2020 to practice how they would stop a deadly gunman, and the city's SWAT team was sent to learn the layouts of school buildings in the district in the case of such a threat, the New York Times reported Thursday.

The training exercise in 2020 included local officers assigned to the school district, Uvalde police, the county sheriff's office, and other local law enforcement agencies.

The City of Uvalde also received a grant of nearly $70,000 from the state in a bid to beef up security at schools after a shooting at a high school in Santa Fe left 10 people dead in 2018. Some of the preventive security measures the school district says it implemented include motion detectors, perimeter fencing, a buzz-in door system, and more, according to a two-page document obtained by CNN.

[PhaelixWW]

So case law (judges making up random shit for their rulings) is allowed to trump the constitution, but actual laws congress passed aren't ?

That's not at all what case law is. It doesn't "trump" the law, it is the law, as interpreted by the judiciary, whose job it is... to interpret the law. So no, Constitutional case law isn't just "made up random shit", and the justices can't just decide whatever they want.

it's the peak of lunacy to on one hand say that you aren't going to follow the constitution because it would lead to bad outcomes (calls for violence, felons with firearms) while also saying you can't possibly do something because it's against the constitution and the constitution should never be changed.

Following the case law is following the Constitution, though. But the room for judicial decisions is exceedingly narrow in scope. As I said, most case law has been about broadening and enshrining the rights found in the Constitution. The 14th, for example, is the foundation for other later-affirmed rights, such as the right to privacy, which in turn is the basis for the Roe v. Wade decision, despite the fact that privacy is never mentioned in the Constitution explicitly. We should definitely be wary about all attempts to erode the protections established by the Constitution.

And I certainly never said the Constitution should never be changed. There's a process for that, though.

- - - Updated - - -

Uvalde school district made extensive security preparations that failed to stop shooting

Yeah, this is looking worse and worse for the local police department.

[Trifle]

That's not at all what case law is. It doesn't "trump" the law, it is the law, as interpreted by the judiciary, whose job it is... to interpret the law. So no, Constitutional case law isn't just "made up random shit", and the justices can't just decide whatever they want.

Uhhh... part of the problem at the moment (see Roe vs Wade imminent repeal) is that the justices CAN just decide whatever they want. They'll make up some flimsy reasoning for it sure, but I'm not for one second going to entertain the notion that the system as intended is in a good spot at the moment.