Blizzard was once the king of innovation, what happened?

[Necromantic]

I think a lot of the design choices for the past 10 years have been awful. Graphics, systems, and content just all stink. Seems like a lot of the money earned was not re-invested into Blizzard titles (like how in the heck does it take so long to release a new Diablo title when you make so much damn money?). Lack of funding lead to stale and/or zero innovation. Lack of pay attracts 0 people with an iota of skill and leads to a lazy culture at the company (why work hard if you get nothing in return?). Makes sense.

I believe in giving credit where it's due. I do appreciate what they tried to do in Legion. That wasn't a bad expansion really. And they finally updated a lot of dated animations and other graphical stuff. Plus the game didn't run so stupid on my multi-core CPU of getting 20-300fps.

[Lochton]

I wonder if this is even possible with something like dragon riding due to the age of the game/engine.
GW2 (where it's obviously copied from) set a really high bar there.

In the past few years I generally wondered how much engine age and limitations have influenced workflow and creativity.

Most features added fitted the game well, popular or not.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

Even if that were true, that means the inventive spirit in blizzard died about 2005. Or put another way, blizzard has existed longer as a maintenance reactionary company than not. Must've been a really cool place to work at around 1999 though. Sadge.

Yeah, for the longest time, and during the height of Blizzards popularity, it was taking ideas from different games then improving said ideas, and having the smoothest, most polished gameplay that made them great.


It's weird that no other MMORPG have managed to even come close to the gameplay of WoW after all these years. In WoW, it feels like you are playing a singleplayer game with zero latency. It's like your character is connected to your mind, and it does exactly what you want it to do, instantly. EVERY other MMO I have played, has this built in lag and sluggy movement that makes it feel like it was released in 1995, even if it came out last year.

It's the same shit with the other Blizz games. SC2 set a new standard for RTS that's nowhere close to being passed, and it was released more than 10 years ago. When comparing it to AoE4, it feels like SC2 is the game that was just released, while AoE4 is the 10+ years old one...

Same thing with Heroes aswell. Both DotA2 and LoL feel unresponsive and annoying in comparison. The only MOBA that got the gameplay and the polish right, was HoN, but that died because it launched as a B2P game, while LoL/DotA2 were F2P + optional cashshop.

Diablo 3 had a lot of weird system designs and ideas, but the smoothness and polish of the gameplay was there from day 1.




The sad thing is that the old Blizz polish is still there today aswell... It's just overshadowed by Blizzard being out of touch with the gaming market, being behind the trends instead of on top (or before) like they used to be, and a long list of questionable design choices in their games.

[NineSpine]

To be fair, you could go so far down the rabbit hole with that concept that you'd never see the light of day. "I made a video game... he made a video game. Therefore, he copied me!"

The MMO concept has been around a long time but they made a faster-paced MMO with more action than the traditional ones like FFXI where you auto-attack then once in a while can push a button.

WoW vanilla plays almost exactly like EQ, just polished.

- - - Updated - - -

True and real. Maybe you can consider Diablo 1 an innovation since its basically the first action rogue-like. But its still based on another game.

D1 was built by a satellite studio they purchased, so it is a special case.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, for the longest time, and during the height of Blizzards popularity, it was taking ideas from different games then improving said ideas, and having the smoothest, most polished gameplay that made them great.

It's weird that no other MMORPG have managed to even come close to the gameplay of WoW after all these years. In WoW, it feels like you are playing a singleplayer game with zero latency. It's like your character is connected to your mind, and it does exactly what you want it to do, instantly. EVERY other MMO I have played, has this built in lag and sluggy movement that makes it feel like it was released in 1995, even if it came out last year.

It's the same shit with the other Blizz games. SC2 set a new standard for RTS that's nowhere close to being passed, and it was released more than 10 years ago. When comparing it to AoE4, it feels like SC2 is the game that was just released, while AoE4 is the 10+ years old one...

Same thing with Heroes aswell. Both DotA2 and LoL feel unresponsive and annoying in comparison. The only MOBA that got the gameplay and the polish right, was HoN, but that died because it launched as a B2P game, while LoL/DotA2 were F2P + optional cashshop.

Diablo 3 had a lot of weird system designs and ideas, but the smoothness and polish of the gameplay was there from day 1.

The sad thing is that the old Blizz polish is still there today aswell... It's just overshadowed by Blizzard being out of touch with the gaming market, being behind the trends instead of on top (or before) like they used to be, and a long list of questionable design choices in their games.

The problem with WoW at the end of the day is just the design. The people designing the game only empathize with the ultra-hardcore players and just can't understand how anyone else operates.

[Thelxi]

King of innovation LOL. More like king of plagiarism.

[Berndorf]

What innovation?

Pretty much everything they've done is pretty much copying others, then refining it.

That's more true over the last 15 years or so. Diablo 1 was the first arpg that used real time action I think and wc, D2 and sc were all pushing the envelope in their respective genres. I would say most of their originality left along with the people who did it a long time ago. Though with any genre of entertainment it gets harder to innovate the further you get from when it started.

[Ragedaug]

Blizzard was once the king of innovation, what happened?

The short answer is that they sold out. Not that I blame them for wanting to make that money, but once they sold out to Davidson & Associates, that started the acquisition train that eventually lead them to Activision. At some point along the way with other folks running the company, they ran the company in directions that lead all the folks who started Silicon & Synapse to leave. So the people running Blizzard right now are in no way representative of the folks who were the kings of innovation. So I mean the short of it is, the innovators left. And now we are left with folks, who know how to say "yes", hired by corporate leads to replace those innovators.

[Biomega]

So I mean the short of it is, the innovators left. And now we are left with folks, who know how to say "yes", hired by corporate leads to replace those innovators.

Which, by the way, is not some bad luck that struck Blizzard - it's the usual course for successful products.

Innovation runs into diminishing returns where you can't really improve your product in ways that lead to significant further growth for the business. The thing that does is sales and marketing. I.e., rather than making a BETTER product, you get more money out of making your GOOD product known/suited to more people.

The downside of this is that because of how company hierarchies tend to work, results-based promotions slowly move away from the innovators and towards the sales and management people. One by one the key people are replaced that way, and you shift from a group of passionate game designers to having this throng of corporate sociopaths that only know how to survive in a market filled with other corporate sociopaths and compete with them in the sales and marketing dimension.

That's a very common, almost "natural" progression for successful products in business, not just in games. And of course it works because consumers support it. If you really want innovation, stop supporting products that no longer innovate I guess.

[Zodiark]

From what I've experienced, over the time I've played WoW since 05' is this. Warcraft III was the story driven strategy game. The story while not wholly unique was good enough and hinted at much larger lore. When WoW came out it succeeded in doing something that players wanted since they finished Warcraft III. That was to explore the rich world and delve into it's mysteries that were hinted at in the strategy game. The fact that there was no cohesive narrative didn't really matter so much as players, including myself were enamored with delving into the lands of Azeroth. The possibility of discovering new threads, and seeing how they tied into that larger picture helped to keep me entertained. The combat was fun and the fact that I could level up my character simply by doing quests was a novelty to me at the time.

Jump ahead to current day. Most of the mysteries and lore that was hinted at in times past turned out to be lackluster. Feeling hastily thrown together and contrived. That said, I'm not sure how much innovation Blizzard actually did. Perhaps in the beginning, by perfecting the old MMO formula and making it much more streamlined and user friendly. However that was with a totally different team. One who had passion and vision. Nowadays the developers are just trying to create new content in the spirt of WoW. As blizzard became a huge money making machine it quickly became apparent that the game must go on. Gone were the days of, "it's done when it's done.", now it has to be "done". weather it's ready or not. Otherwise they will have to answer to the stockholders as to why they can't get content out in time.

Sometimes a story is just good enough as is. Any attempt to expand upon it just dilutes the originals glory. I believe such is the case with WoW. It's like how some movies are really great and innovative, but the sequels are trash. Look at Jaws as an example of that. The second movie just didn't need to be made. The story of the first one was told and concluded. It was just more of the same but missing that punch that the first movie delivered. The third movie was just a cash grab. Sure it may be a guilty pleasure movie to some as a reminded of the times it was released, but it was so cheesy and even the actors in it don't like to be reminded they starred in that movie. The fourth movie was just ridiculous.
A story has to happen organically. It can't be forced out.

To me the biggest innovation that WoW could do would be to expand the game inwards. Flesh out the zones more. The existing storylines, and threads that have been left untouched. Allow players to revisit old haunts and discover new stones to unturn, dungeons to crawl, and different versions of old enemies to fight.

[Woggmer]

Dragonflight looks like it might turn out okay. Talent trees returning and the UI changes will be good. The one race one class idea could be great, or it could be a disaster. But this is an rpg, not an action game, so I’m not sure what they’re doing there really. Probably ran out of time/lore excuses to let more races be evokers. Dragon riding looks ok. It would be great if this was 2012.

All of these features could be okay, and that’s about it really. But, this isn’t Blizzard’s style; to just make things “okay”. They were once a titan of gaming, with each of their games selling like mad, with groundbreaking features and gameplay. Diablo and Starcraft were unicorns in their own right as well. And after WoW came out, it seemed like Blizzard couldn’t be stopped.

So, what the hell happened? We have two mobile games coming out that have been copy pasted from other games, a dead rts and a dead Dota clone, and a string of mediocre WoW expansions. Not to mention OW 2, which is an actual copy paste. Is Blizzard just in maintenance mode? I remember when Warcraft 3 came out, it was like the second coming for gaming. Diablo 2 probably still hasn’t been surpassed to this day as the best ARPG ever. Was it the Activision merger? Talent leaving? Entropy taking its ugly toll? Probably all of them, but the Blizzard of today is not what I remember them as a kid.

Do you think Dragonflight will bring a return of Blizzard’s old greatness?

Depending on the person, you get different answers and outcomes of what it could've been based on a person's experience with Blizzard. It could be Activision and also because of Bobby Kotick trying to set himself up as the next big Michael Eisner to the gaming industry... which he almost got away with, but his greed lead to his own downfall along with the rest of the company...

It could just be that times changed, the whole story of the Cosby Suite along with several employees some of which are veterans who've worked on WoW. They got too much fame that it got to their heads. The only exception is Metzen and Kaplan (as far as I know) but also it might've been Jeff Kaplan's idea of trying to perfect a game on launch that it lead to this slow burn in the Overwatch community (at least according to a S. Korean Overwatch streamer who has an insider in Blizzard). So while some people will say OW 2 is just a carbon copy of the original, that's only just the PvP half... Had Jeff stayed on the team longer, it could've taken years till they fully get OW 2 off the ground to have both PvE and PvP fully functional. Now to the casual non-pvp Overwatch person, they probably won't care if they have to wait a few years to get a good product... the PvP competitive side on the other hand, can't wait... otherwise they'd flock to other FPS and Hero shooter games like Apex Legends or Valorant.

Are they innovators? Gameplay wise and on a technical standpoint, Not really. However, they revolutionized the idea of how we perceived certain fantastical beings like Orcs showing them in a better light, and probably what spawned an interest in Orc culture. There's also the item rarity color system, which to this day a lot of games use them. Gray (Junk) > White (Common) > Green (Uncommon) > Blue (Rare) > Purple (Epic) > Orange/Gold (Legendary).

I think you really need to ask, where or when exactly Blizzard started became so popular and when and where their downfall started... Were they popular on purpose or by accident?

As for Dragonflight... If it can be better than Battle for Azeroth and Shadowlands and perhaps surpass Legion.. then I'd call it a success. To me, Blizzard should try to find success on their OWN terms stop trying to rely on the past and try to move on. (This isn't saying, "find a new MMO, WoW isn't built for you anymore" but instead try to find other things within WoW to enjoy.)

[thottstation]

A bunch of nerds meticulously working on something they love produces different results than a bunch of employees working on deliverables to meet KPI.

Especially if those employees despise the project's founders, resent that their legacy is enjoyed and consider it injustice, openly despise the customer base, and only see their employer as blank check dispensory they must exhaust in the short time they have with the company to promote social change.

One planted a tree because they love trees and desired one of their very own that others would enjoy long after them... while the other one hates trees, hates that it's their job to tend it, hates the guy that planted it, and would rather do anything else and daydreams about how good it would be if that damn stupid tree burned to the ground, but are content for now to have the prestige of being the only one allowed near it so they can pull out a knife and scratch in "Punch Nazis" into it's bark, delighting at how everyone who walks by will see The Message™ and they feel great because they did something that mattered and did their part in making the world a better place! And the multitudes of people that lament the scarring of a once beautiful tree are no doubt just a bunch of Nazi sympathizers anyway so who cares what they think?

[Vakna]

It still blows my mind that companies are barely able to reproduce the smooth feeling of animations and movement in WoW and Blizzard created this at the turn of the millennium. It's 22 years later and we still have games like FF14 that feel like you are sliding around on ice.

[Fitsu]

From my (admitidlly little) understanding of how the weird buisness world works, a large part of the problem is the need for constant growth. From a shareholder point of view if a company makes a billion dollars 1 year and then 900 million dollars the next that companys value has gone DOWN. It doesn't matter how much money the company makes, just that it was more than last year.

Now, this is a flawed system because there has to be a ceiling. A point where through good practice and trying to put out the best product the amount of profit a company makes will eventually stagnate. How does a company get through this ceiling? They replace these good practices with greedy, predatory ones. Everything comes about making as much money as possible so every year they get a little worse, burning through that goodwill they built up over the years for a quick buck until several years later the company name is down in the muck.

You see this with every company, why do you think every year apple products cost more but have less stuff? Almost every company is run by it's shareholders and thus cursed with this need to make more money than before and this greed eventually leads to that companies downfall.

[cparle87]

i am amazed sometimes how my tolerance for these things changed,i used to play an mmo prior to wow that had death penalties,2 quests per level,couldnt solo quest outdoor mobs etc,and now i find classic wow leveling to tedious lol

Me too. My first mmo had no quests, every monster was functionally elite and could 3-shot you with a lucky combo, health and mana regen were obscenely slow, and to even get to level cap you had to group up and aoe farm cap for a couple percent per hour. I never even got to that point despite playing for years. I stalled at the "kill mobs nearly too tough to beat 1v1 for 5% per hour" level.

[Necromantic]

Me too. My first mmo had no quests, every monster was functionally elite and could 3-shot you with a lucky combo, health and mana regen were obscenely slow, and to even get to level cap you had to group up and aoe farm cap for a couple percent per hour. I never even got to that point despite playing for years. I stalled at the "kill mobs nearly too tough to beat 1v1 for 5% per hour" level.

Yeah, Maplestory was rough.

[Tiwack]

It still blows my mind that companies are barely able to reproduce the smooth feeling of animations and movement in WoW and Blizzard created this at the turn of the millennium. It's 22 years later and we still have games like FF14 that feel like you are sliding around on ice.

Me too, I guess it's why we won't see a WoW 2 any time soon, they put a lot of care and effort into this game engine and however flawed it may become over the years... there's just nothing that beats it.

[Necromantic]

there's just nothing that beats it.

I'm sure many would disagree with this. It's not a "bad" game. It's not not as glorious as it used to be. FFXIV is the first WoW killer game that has succeeded in doing so.

[ParanoiD84]

The Blizzard we have today is nothing like what it used to be, most of the old guard have left.

[vincink]

Battle.net was a big innovation of theirs. They actually might have been the first to enable online play for an RTS in WC2.

They weren't the first to pioneer a centralized online play system-- that had been going on since the very late 1980s. They were, however, the first (or among the first) to market it very well by including it on game boxes, jewell cases, and the CDs themselves as well as all over their website and partner sites. (All in the 1990s.)

[Ragedaug]

It still blows my mind that companies are barely able to reproduce the smooth feeling of animations and movement in WoW and Blizzard created this at the turn of the millennium. It's 22 years later and we still have games like FF14 that feel like you are sliding around on ice.

100% agree with this. That's one of the things that kept bringing me back to WoW in the early years was how fluid the motion felt. Your character feels a part of the world, versus other MMOs where the world feels like a backdrop for your character.