To Be Forsaken

[guro-tchai]

. If they double down on the best parts of this questline and cover the aforementioned aspects, there's hope.

...did someone say hope?

a coup failed, so they're going with incrementalism. as i said, she will not become the queen, but the pope. by that i mean an informal sovereign, moving towards writers' goals by inexplicably winning over the forsaken. every conflict will ultimately go in her favor.

the questline's purpose is to confuse the fans and mask the fact that she is in. it's especially noticeable when Faranell says that he'll work toward a brighter future - which she repeats five minutes later verbatim. i don't think he was being sarcastic or dishonest - he'll just play the obnoxious role of a crazy scientist similar to Marileth or Dr. Dickus in PF, but he will always agree with Calia when a choice is to be made. Lilian will always support Calia, Velonara doesn't even mind that an Alliance spy was helping them, so she's also on board with the agenda.
that leaves us with Belmont, the military guy. that's already a minority voice, but a voice nonetheless.

when will the Forsaken need their forces? when Turalyon launches his special military operation in Lordaeron.
i don't think that Calia will support him, as #notalllightforged. she also won't be killed immediately, because she's in plot armor and blessed by cdev. they have a choice with Belmont: to make him a hardliner and later kill him for lack of tolerance as they did with Garrosh, or to give him his character development™, by accepting that #notalllightforged. perhaps she'll save him personally and he'll come around.

you know who else could have character development™ when Turalyon goes nuts? someone who knows what the tyranny of the Light actually means; someone who has prejudices to overcome and accept the aforementioned hashtag; someone who will lead the orcs to Stormwind - but this time as saviors, not as conquerors.
imagine that shitty meme with Mercy, offering a hand to the child under the rubble - but it's Geya'rah instead. inspiring, right?

[Super Dickmann]

a coup failed, so they're going with incrementalism. as i said, she will not become the queen, but the pope. by that i mean an informal sovereign, moving towards writers' goals by inexplicably winning over the forsaken. every conflict will ultimately go in her favor.

This was already the case. The race died in BTS and there's been two attempts to insert Calia as a savior, once in BFA after gutting the present race instead of just the past, then in the tie-in book. In both cases Calia was introduced to save their sorry asses and met with gratitude and love by whoever saw her. In the book, she took over off-screen and then was the de facto leader dispensing wisdom. That Blizzard even backtracked at all after massive bitching is grounds to continue to bitch so they leave it at that and don't bother with her further. Blizzard manifestly don't care about the Forsaken, else the loss of Lordaeron, a city and territory relevant since WC2 would've received at least one mention by anyone to speak of compared to the novellas, quests, books and cinematics going on and on about a tree that nobody gave a shit about until Sylvanas torched it. The race can remain in a palatable state until then.

the questline's purpose is to confuse the fans and mask the fact that she is in. it's especially noticeable when Faranell says that he'll work toward a brighter future - which she repeats five minutes later verbatim. i don't think he was being sarcastic or dishonest - he'll just play the obnoxious role of a crazy scientist similar to Marileth or Dr. Dickus in PF, but he will always agree with Calia when a choice is to be made. Lilian will always support Calia, Velonara doesn't even mind that an Alliance spy was helping them, so she's also on board with the agenda.
that leaves us with Belmont, the military guy. that's already a minority voice, but a voice nonetheless.

Your take on the purpose of the quest is 100% true, but it's bold of you to think that the Council will ever feature again and it won't be either Calia or more likely, no one, because nobody in Blizzard really cares about this plot thread. The Gilneas bit is irrelevant, this is maybe the fifth time they've readjusted it and not even the first time they've ended an expansion saying Alliance will totally take it back, that was Mists. You have to keep in mind that prior to this questline, the race were defunct beggars who didn't have control of any land, had all their pre-BFA characters either turned into Satan or vanish into thin air, had no leadership to speak of and who's most recent appearance was to gather under BFA's OCs do not steal to thank Calia for services rendered while loitering in Orgrimmar like they were LA crack addicts.

when will the Forsaken need their forces? when Turalyon launches his special military operation in Lordaeron.
i don't think that Calia will support him, as #notalllightforged. she also won't be killed immediately, because she's in plot armor and blessed by cdev. they have a choice with Belmont: to make him a hardliner and later kill him for lack of tolerance as they did with Garrosh, or to give him his character development™, by accepting that #notalllightforged. perhaps she'll save him personally and he'll come around.

you know who else could have character development™ when Turalyon goes nuts? someone who knows what the tyranny of the Light actually means; someone who has prejudices to overcome and accept the aforementioned hashtag; someone who will lead the orcs to Stormwind - but this time as saviors, not as conquerors.
imagine that shitty meme with Mercy, offering a hand to the child under the rubble - but it's Geya'rah instead. inspiring, right?

Geya'rah chopping paladins when we finally get the A'dal Qaeda expansion would be much appreciated, especially if we get to drop some Zyklon-B(light) on spehss mehreens. You're right on all fronts when it comes to redemptions and people finding the wonders of world peace, though Turalyon will be redeemed as well and the final villain will be a Jigsaw piece. Which is a shame, since Turalyon and the LF actually getting to act as if his faith has any worth at all rather than capitulating in order to orcs, demons, void and undead in successive books and expansions would be a godsend and a Crusade is well overdue.

[Darknessvamp]

If she truly wanted to help she'd wouldn't have been standing around being useless in Oribos for however long the SL campaign has been going on, barring that she wouldn't have impressed her presence during the events that started the incursion that the SL campaign was led for, barring that she wouldn't have emerged from whatever hole she was hiding in to moral-splain that she was the perfect avatar to heal both Derek Proudmoore and the tortured risen Night Elves, barring that she wouldn't have been hidden among the participants of the Gathering, barring that she wouldn't even have connived to even be at the fort as it took place, further barring that and still wanting to assist she'd still be in Netherlight Temple.

I mean one of her blatantly glaring issues is that she keeps bringing up she's a menethil whenever she gets any screen presence, you'd think if she truly didn't want any position of control over the Forsaken as 'Lordaeron's citizens' she would announce the line was dead, give up the monarchical rights she clearly still believes she has and state that she will only be known as Calia from then on as well as getting rid of the ridiculously noble finery which I remind people she didn't don until she was dead, if she isn't keen to be a leader than what was wrong with her priest vestments.

[Darth-Piekus]

Isn't it time for the Forsaken to change? To try something else? Being Dark and Edgy is becoming pathetic and incredibly boring at this point. It's time to move on and create a different society and considering I see people still craving war I would say best to forget it. Blizzard are unable to write a compelling war story so let's not bring that up again.

[guro-tchai]

That Blizzard even backtracked at all after massive bitching is grounds to continue to bitch so they leave it at that and don't bother with her further.

the response is positive. the applesauce is swallowed - as well as the pill. they will not stop pumping the players full of the medicine. paraphrasing one fried chicken tycoon, "you may not be interested in progress - but progress is interested in you"

, else the loss of Lordaeron, a city and territory relevant since WC2 would've received at least one mention by anyone

it did! a couple of Stomwind guards in 8.2.5 mentioned it and Turalyon himself alluded to the kingdom at large.
oh, you were talking about the Forsaken?

bold of you to think that the Council will ever feature again and it won't be either Calia or more likely, no one, because nobody in Blizzard really cares about this plot thread

Turalyon wants Lordaeron, the Forsaken would like to keep it. the conflict is already there, we just need a little space taliban to push it.

The Gilneas bit is irrelevant, this is maybe the fifth time they've readjusted it and not even the first time they've ended an expansion saying Alliance will totally take it back, that was Mists.

didn't mention Gilneas as i agree that it's irrelevant. i even though that following the war table mission in BfA and overall Horde defeats it's already retaken lmao

You have to keep in mind that prior to this questline, the race were defunct beggars who didn't have control of any land, had all their pre-BFA characters either turned into Satan or vanish into thin air, had no leadership to speak of and who's most recent appearance was to gather under BFA's OCs do not steal to thank Calia for services rendered while loitering in Orgrimmar like they were LA crack addicts.

wasn't my understanding of it. from the war table, i thought that they still firmly hold the most of Lordaeron - even Alterac. and the old characters on the new council - if you count Faranell, Belmont and Velonara among them - were alive and well after BfA.

Geya'rah chopping paladins when we finally get the A'dal Qaeda expansion would be much appreciated, especially if we get to drop some Zyklon-B(light) on spehss mehreens.

nah, Stormwind will have to be habitable. although, won't a significant population of displaced humans seeking refuge after the evacuation bring the Forsaken closer to salvation and deeper understanding of coexistence? hell yeah then, move them to Lordaeron!

though Turalyon will be redeemed as well and the final villain will be a Jigsaw piece.

not sure, that's free drama for them. besides, what will his function be once he's beaten? Illidan or Sylvanas just can't stay in story after their beat is done, so they're frozen. he's not that popular, so why even bother with a plot fridge?

would be a godsend and a Crusade is well overdue

insha'dal

[tromage2]

The undead will rot away anyways in a few years without Sylvanas.
They might just aswell remove the race.

[Skytotem]

This is the AVERAGE level of response to player concerns that we should see for every race

[RH92]

I personally don't like it, it seems like a poor excuse to shove her right into a leadership position. With way more build up? Yeah, sure.

As if they completely forgot that Forsaken are not really all undead united. Undeath itself is a big part of what it means to be undead, sure. However I would consider Forsaken largely a political group as well, bound together by same culture, history and values (even though they have gotten twisted in last years). They are the 'survivors' of Scourge of Lordaeron, freed from their slavery. I understand the Forsaken included other undead into their ranks in recent years, but their customs are bound to be different.

Now I am not saying this is horrible, it would be actually cool to see all the politics and seeing small branches inside the Forsaken society. But it needs a fucking build up. I don't see why should Forsaken welcome Calia with open arms, she left them to die and she is a member of royal family that brought ruin to their kingdom. If we had some Forsaken who are monarchists and she was elected into the council, fine. Again though, it needs a better build up.

I am not a big fan of Voss either, but they spent time building her up and she earned her spot as representative of new Forsaken. What did Calia do though? She appeared, she died, got resurrected and then inserted herself into Forsaken.

It's stupid and not cool, she no longer has any claim unless she proves herself. It's the same bad logic as Putin wanting to claim Ukraine because it once was part of Russian Empire. I am not sure if he would want some Romanov to replace him though (good for him they are all dead).

[Skirdus]

I've never seen a single player who actually likes Calia or anything they've done with her as of late. At the very least, she isn't completely insufferable, unlike Sylvanas

[Progenitor Aquarius]

Joseph the Insane is the best in all of it!

[guisadop]

I'd rather have Calia ruling Tirisfal for humans and the alliance.

[Super Dickmann]

the response is positive. the applesauce is swallowed - as well as the pill. they will not stop pumping the players full of the medicine. paraphrasing one fried chicken tycoon, "you may not be interested in progress - but progress is interested in you"l

...nah, Stormwind will have to be habitable. although, won't a significant population of displaced humans seeking refuge after the evacuation bring the Forsaken closer to salvation and deeper understanding of coexistence? hell yeah then, move them to Lordaeron!

It's true, they've had to switch approaches, but much like the loyalist option, it's all a ruse to progress the Unifaction. The thing with the Forsaken is that they were already dead, so even this is a minor improvement. When the time is right they'll drop the mask and put her on the chair formally and have her give an hour long fully rendered speech on how Lordaeron is for everyone, not just living and dead but the newly civilized gnolls and centaurs from the new expansion.

it did! a couple of Stomwind guards in 8.2.5 mentioned it and Turalyon himself alluded to the kingdom at large.
oh, you were talking about the Forsaken?

It's a shame that wasn't pertinent when they were going for the Keep in the first place or they were fighting for it but only throwaway lines by fodder years down the line. Could you imagine if competing for Lordaeron was the main gist of the Forsaken-Human conflict for fifteen years? Then it sure would be a shame for it to be shelved so we can cut out both undead and humans out of it entirely and we make it about Sylvanas sneering oneliners while Sadfang whines about a fucking tree, haha.

Turalyon wants Lordaeron, the Forsaken would like to keep it. the conflict is already there, we just need a little space taliban to push it.

We can only hope. The last time Blizzard had the Alliance have grounds to initiate a conflict for Lordaeron it was like someone showed the sign of the cross to a demon and we ended up with the war motive being Sylvanas running up an astral kill count to satisfy the devil on a different continent all to avoid anyone in the Alliance having the slightest bit of proactivity or any meat to their ideas.

wasn't my understanding of it. from the war table, i thought that they still firmly hold the most of Lordaeron - even Alterac. and the old characters on the new council - if you count Faranell, Belmont and Velonara among them - were alive and well after BfA.

The War Table stuff was non-canon from the word go since it was made by interns checking Cata-era wowhead overviews of the zones, hence why people were inexplicably alive and why in the tables Darkshore and Ashenvale are contested whereas in 8.1 Tyrande talks about how they are totally lost and she's the first one making progress on it. It's the same with the Forsaken. On the tables, they exist, in the Horde war campaign, Faranell and Belmont appear with 5 lines total in the Warfront on Kalimdor completely away from anything any Forsaken ever cared about while the actual drama hinges on Pathos McGee, the undead tide priest who Sylvanas kills to make Baine sad and Voss who's inexplicably become a second in command because the word 'Executor' never appears in the whole of the expansion.

not sure, that's free drama for them. besides, what will his function be once he's beaten? Illidan or Sylvanas just can't stay in story after their beat is done, so they're frozen. he's not that popular, so why even bother with a plot fridge?

The same function sparing Malfurion had when Sadfang and Sylvanas inexplicably leave him alive. The last time we've killed an Alliance character who went hostile was Benedictus ten years ago.

insha'dal

Turalyon (pbuh) will purge the infidels.

[Powerogue]

The undead will rot away anyways in a few years without Sylvanas.
They might just aswell remove the race.

My assumption is that without their master's command, the restless scourge, which will have to be constantly managed by the Ebon Blade, will have the occasional undead snap out of it, and with some help from Calia and the other Forsaken be integrated into them instead. Boom, infinitely renewable Forsaken.

[omeomorfismo]

Isn't it time for the Forsaken to change? To try something else? Being Dark and Edgy is becoming pathetic and incredibly boring at this point. It's time to move on and create a different society and considering I see people still craving war I would say best to forget it. Blizzard are unable to write a compelling war story so let's not bring that up again.

to change in what? in something that other races do better? thats the entire problem, the forsaken satisfied a niche and they did it very well. now they will be just smelly humans. like we even need another race cannibalized by human potential™?

[Alanar]

I think it's actually cool, like some one else mentioned the forsaken as a race and their home is now a place for those who were lost and could find a home there, this also means other types of undead. The councils point is literally to give all those a voice, even those who were lost and have yet to join?

This is up to speculation, but Lor'themar mentioned in the 9.2.5 questline that the scourge in Northrend might be a greater threat, the forsaken could play a pivatol role in maybe looking out for those who were risen and still out there maybe give those a home as well. Nerubians were mentioned, which is a very cool idea, But San'layn and maybe some other more intellectual scourge could maybe use some help as well.

Calia is fine imo.. she bears a certain name sure.., but her actions so far seem genuine, I don't have doubts over her, but I can't help but notice she even has a Nathanos replacement in derek as her champion. The pallid lady doesn't sound to bad either. I even think this would open doors for even more costumizations for the forsaken.

edit: Just noticed alonsus faul is there as well, tbh, I go as far and say that the Forsaken are actually interesting again.

[qwerty123456]

Considering the leader that most of the Forsaken were fanatically devoted to went on a genocidal rampage that made Garrosh look like Bob Ross, Belmont probably should want someone whose heart isn't filled with anger and spite.

The undead will rot away anyways in a few years without Sylvanas.
They might just aswell remove the race.

Forcing a horrible cursed existence on someone just because you want to supply your queen with more cannon fodder is not a race worth existing in the first place. They shoulda been offering it to people who were scared shitless of dying. It also would have made more sense why people would suddenly switch sides then.

[Darth-Piekus]

to change in what? in something that other races do better? thats the entire problem, the forsaken satisfied a niche and they did it very well. now they will be just smelly humans. like we even need another race cannibalized by human potential™?

And what is the alternative? To be vengeful and angry undead creating bio weapons to kill the living? Is that gonna be their sole purpose to their whole existence? Your dream about the Forsaken is very outdated. It needs change.

[omeomorfismo]

And what is the alternative? To be vengeful and angry undead creating bio weapons to kill the living? Is that gonna be their sole purpose to their whole existence? Your dream about the Forsaken is very outdated. It needs change.

no, it doesnt

[Darth-Piekus]

That simply cannot work at this point. Sylvannas is gone and there is a new Council who wants to make changes for the better. It's best you accept it.

Even Sylvannas herself changed.

[Gaidax]

My assumption is that without their master's command, the restless scourge, which will have to be constantly managed by the Ebon Blade, will have the occasional undead snap out of it, and with some help from Calia and the other Forsaken be integrated into them instead. Boom, infinitely renewable Forsaken.

It's not like all the Scourge is mindless there. Throngs are little more than animated skeletons and zombies riff raff, but there also seem to be plenty others with a will of their own trying to carve their little fiefdoms and what not.

Whatever controlled them is no longer a thing, so can assume there is a lot more Scourge with free will now.

---

Besides, the whole "undead will rot away" will not really happen obviously, because it can't happen as it's a core faction. If it's a legit issue, Blizz will write some sort of solution to explain their existence without Val'kyr fix. Heck, are there really no more Val'kyrs actually?

Because it could be just that. And if not, then whatever fix sourced from Shadowlands could work too - we had Sindane already offer some assistance after all. She could just offer some sort of ritual or knowledge to assist there being a master necromancer.