Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Doffen]

I had quite fun when I played it a bit today. I got an in game reward from deckard(the map)Then when I was done with prologue I noticed the shop thing, but I didnt see the connection with doing the first mission to get it as a reward.

Just remembered, I did get a bag with some stuff and 10000 gold, was that the free daily reward perhaps.

I wont buy anything anyway, DI is fun without it

[Biomega]

I really dont get the concept of timesavers, you pay money so you dont have to play the game? Then why play the game in the first place?

Well think about it for more than two seconds.

"The game" is a gross overgeneralization. Not everything in the game is as enjoyable as everything else. You pay to skip the parts you don't enjoy, so you can spend more time playing the parts you do enjoy.

That's why games who offer this kind of transaction have an inherent incentive for designers to make certain parts of the game deliberately annoying/unfun. That doesn't mean it always happens, or that it's always egregious - but it's a looming problem.

[Neuroticaine]

It isn't a shock, you're right.

But let me ask you, just out of sheer common sense and public image...

would you not pull back on the microtransactions at this point? Microtransactions are already a stigma in the gamer world, it would be common sense to NEVER "reward" a player with a discount to their shop, after hard work. Yes? Can we meet there?

There are some loud voices on the internet that paint micro transactions as awful, but the reality of the matter is the vast majority of people that actually play these games don't care and those micro transaction make tons of money, so there's not really an incentive to do away with them.

I'm a big fan of Genshin Impact, so I follow a lot of content creators/cosplayers/fellow players in the community, and a very surprisingly large chunk of them had literally never played a video game before Genshin Impact, and now have spent hundred of hours in the game, many of them now getting into the nitty gritty theory crafting of the game.

These types of games appeal to a very large chunk of people, and will continue to be successful. They are not targeting the audience that calls themselves "gamers" even if the IP is a franchise that typically has appealed to core gamers. But the game companies that make these games that appeal to core gamers would be absolutely stupid NOT to follow that revenue source.

At the end of the day, for me, it's just a moderately engaging, diablo themed way to waste five minutes on my phone whenever the situations calls for it.

[deenman]

Is that the new thing? If you can't handle a normal free market action in a blizzard game, just claim the person is Kotick without being capable of suggesting anything better?

its just that the stuff he said are beyond ridiculous it doesnt even deserve an actual response,we all know many of these games have very predatory and unethical monitization schemes,but blizzard managed to tick all the boxes and go beyond

[Biomega]

There are some loud voices on the internet that paint micro transactions as awful, but the reality of the matter is the vast majority of people that actually play these games don't care and those micro transaction make tons of money, so there's not really an incentive to do away with them.

Oh there's absolutely the tendency to conflate MTX and P2W, and to assume that MTX = horrible or predatory. Which is not the case, of course.

BUUUUUT

There's a reason people so readily jump to that generalization: there's a metric shitton of games that are basically just ads with controls, trying to trick you into paying money. Mobile games especially.

That doesn't mean you can't have fair, even good MTX - you absolutely can. In fact, many people WANT them in their games because a solid revenue stream benefits everyone, even those who don't pay. Prime example: Diablo 3. If that game had MTX I promise you it would not be in its current maintenance-mode state where you get a little pity update 3 times a year and nothing really changes much. People WANT to buy stash tabs, cosmetics, whatnot, and finance more development time. But it's too late now.

MTX on its own is a tool like many others: to be used for good, or for ill. It's not on its own predatory, and it's not on its own exploitative. But it does have those problems attached to it a lot of the time, and for good reason; it's hard to tell when a game is being developed to make a better game, and when it's being developed to make more profit. And there's always a lingering suspicion of "if this didn't have MTX we'd get all of the stuff for free". Not true of course (content costs money), but it's a matter of degrees - and it's hard to believe developers when they say nono it was always planned like that we didn't cut stuff so we could sell it to you piecemeal we prooooomise.

[Strawberry]

It's a F2P game made in Asia.
I'm not surprised. I mean look at Chinese and Korean MMOs. They are all F2P-P2W games.

I stopped playing mobile games many years ago when it became norm to make content so hard it would take you years of daily grinding to progress another few levels just to hit the same wall. Unless you spend $500+.

More countries should ban that predatory business model.

[GratsDing45]

I really dont get the concept of timesavers, you pay money so you dont have to play the game? Then why play the game in the first place?

I don't get it either. But I feel like most people feel like they have to and sometime in the end game you hit a wall where you don't feel powerful and people don't wanna grind like they used to.... Literally every single Diablo game is like this. Defeating the purpose of playing a Diablo if you buy your way past the difficult grind parts for farming better gear... Therefore, people are stupid and Blizzard is taking advantage by making things looks really appealing and dopamine rush of buying something shiny.

[PC2]

its just that the stuff he said are beyond ridiculous it doesnt even deserve an actual response,we all know many of these games have very predatory and unethical monitization schemes,but blizzard managed to tick all the boxes and go beyond

I don't think Blizzard/NetEase are violating an ethical rule. There's no harm in making an art product and then picking the business model that maximizes revenue. The way I see it is that complaining about this is very similar to leftists complaining about capitalism...

[mrgreenthump]

I don't think Blizzard/NetEase are violating an ethical rule. There's no harm in making an art product and then picking the business model that maximizes revenue. The way I see it is that complaining about this is very similar to leftists complaining about capitalism...

Are gambling companies making mechanics to keep players addictive ethical then? Because it's quite comparable.

[Biomega]

Are gambling companies making mechanics to keep players addictive ethical then? Because it's quite comparable.

That's a debate to have, to be sure.

But people must not confuse ethical problems with legal ones - many things are unethical, but entirely legal. Some things are unethical and are made illegal; many are not. And the question of whether something unethical should also be illegal is VERY tricky most of the time.

Also: immoral and unethical aren't the same either.

[mrgreenthump]

That's some hefty bonuses. Either the game is unplayable for free or it is ridiculously easy if you pay to skip the 80 year (really 80 years?!) grind. Either way it amounts to a crap game so I'd be unwilling to spend anything on it.

So far F2P has been quite easy already. Granted am nowhere near end game. But as a Wiz I can just face tank and channel everything. Yet to have needed a second a pot charge and you have 3. It's a pretty faceroll thing currently already, so can't imagine how boring it is if you use money.

[Mojo03]

I don't think Blizzard/NetEase are violating an ethical rule. There's no harm in making an art product and then picking the business model that maximizes revenue. The way I see it is that complaining about this is very similar to leftists complaining about capitalism...

It's not creating an "art product" then adding a business model to it. It's creating a business model focused on whales and addicts, and then creating a game around that with a huge emphasis on superficial presentation and easability to overshadow the shallow and predatory nature of it.

It's essentially a manipulative gambling game, except the house doesn't lose anything, since all you win is in-game digital assets.

And it's barely even a game, since PVE combat is almost entirely pre-determined for players as long as you have the gear score, keep your abilities on CD, and follow the very clear indicators. You're basically just picking what to wear and being the one to actually push the buttons to make you feel like you're doing something (even though your almost entirely on rails)

This is a highly designed product created by a corporate team in China and Blizzard with the sole purpose of manipulating people to create money for them.

[PC2]

It's not creating an "art product" then adding a business model to it. It's creating a business model focused on whales and addicts, and then creating a game around that with a huge emphasis on superficial presentation and easability to overshadow the shallow and predatory nature of it.

It's essentially a manipulative gambling game, except the house doesn't lose anything, since all you win is in-game digital assets.

And it's barely even a game, since PVE combat is almost entirely pre-determined for players as long as you have the gear score, keep your abilities on CD, and follow the very clear indicators. You're basically just picking what to wear and being the one to actually push the buttons to make you feel like you're doing something (even though your almost entirely on rails)

This is a highly designed product created by a corporate team in China and Blizzard with the sole purpose of manipulating people to create money for them.

That's fine though, not evil. I want them to make a boatload of money and in exchange I get to have fun killing monsters and learning to do it more efficiently with my chars. Seems like a win-win from my perspective.

[xenogear3]

Diablo Immortal did everything wrong.

It should let people finish the main story.
Instead, it asks you to grind for XP at level 30, 35 and 40.
The story doesn't even give you a level. You have to grind 4 levels. Do a little bit story and grind another 4 levels.

I know Blizzard copied this from a Gacha game, but Diablo fans feel strange about this game.

The bounty (daily) is the most important part of the game because the players will do it every day for many years.
Yet, it is as boring as hell.
It should give different things to do every day, such as finish a dungeon, a rift, etc.

[rhorle]

It should let people finish the main story. Instead, it asks you to grind for XP at level 30, 35 and 40. The story doesn't even give you a level. You have to grind 4 levels. Do a little bit story and grind another 4 levels.

You can get a lot of XP from doing those other activities. While it interrupts the flow of doing the story it really isn't that big of a deal because you can quickly over come it if you have all of the daily stuff still.

[Zulggun]

Yeah, screw Blizzard for LITERALLY putting the gun to my children's heads and forcing me to buy bundles ingame. Also Ion had sex with my wife and is my wife's son best friend. Diablo: Shadowlands worse than Hitler.

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That's fine though, not evil. I want them to make a boatload of money and in exchange I get to have fun killing monsters and learning to do it more efficiently with my chars. Seems like a win-win from my perspective.

If I could kiss an opinion I would kiss yours.

[catalystical]

One of the things I found quite funny when trying it was when I cleared a dungeon for the first time my REWARD is a discount bundle in the shop. My reward for clearing a dungeon is the opportunity to spend money. Oh but at a discount, ya know cus they want you to be used to spending money early. Even if it's just a little. Get that taste.

From what I briefly saw of the game and the videos I have seen of others playing Blizzard has doubled down on every predatory, disgusting behaviour that P2W games have. The mental tricks of luring people in with rewards, dailies, small free tastes of what it'd be play to spend money, cheap 1-time only bundles to get you into spending just a little to get the ball rolling, every penny spent is some form of gambling mechanic to get those gambling addicts hooked etc. etc... Every mechanic in the game, every prompt, every action is designed with trying to get the player to spend money ahead of anything else.

Diablo Immortal is everything bad about current-gen games, games whos mechanics are more focused on mental warefare with the player to make as much money as possible and it saddens me than the company and game at the forefront of all these disgusting behavours is both the company and game series that I once loved.

I understand companies exist to make money, but that doesn't excuse disgusting behaviour and these predatory mechanics are exactly that. I just want game companies to be about making good games again. People should spend money on your game because your game is good and they want to support it, not because they was coaxed into spending it.

I stopped reading after "I briefly saw".

Firstly, try a bit more than briefly. Get a wider range of views. From the replies in this thread the people who tried it don't find it an issue.

Secondly, instead of just regurgitating second hand information and experiences, come back again when you've actually tried it and found something to complain about it with your own experiences.

[Jtbrig7390]

A full set of legendary gems would take you literally 41 years of grinding without spending a dime. You know a core thing you need for leaderboards and pvp...

Fuck off with defending shit like this.

(stay while and grind forever)

[Elim Garak]

A full set of legendary gems would take you literally 41 years of grinding without spending a dime. You know a core thing you need for leaderboards and pvp...

Fuck off with defending shit like this.

(stay while and grind forever)

You should get gud irl if you don't want to grind in a virtual one. Or you know, don't play the game you can't compete at the top level in.
All the hate against f2p games comes from people who are feeling insecure about their irl achievements.

[Lolites]

Are you serious? You can't be serious. Do you think "Only click here if you are 18+" buttons work in porn sites? I bet you do.

if only there was some individual responsible for children, their upbringing, their spendings and freetime activities and such...

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system that encourages you to pay in the first place.

how dare they want to earn money from their work! they should work completely for free like you do!
you do work for free, right?

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i played it a bit, havent reached endgame yet so cant comment on that, but so far (im lvl 19, or 18 not sure now) seems like i can ignore shop completely and easily... if you cant, dont play it, what did you expect it was just given to us for free? its like alcoholics going to winetasting and then complain theres WINE