Poll: Should Lordaeron City be a neutral place?

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  1. #101
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    my idea is to make the Argent Dawn/Crusade Lordaeronians become the "Silver Covenant of the Horde" and join the Horde with perhaps Stratholme as a neutral area like the Sunwell whereas Alliance and Horde Paladins could make pilgrimages there like how High Elves and Blood Elves could make pilgrimages in the Sunwell
    Could be cool. I mean, lore-wise, Stratholme is a blank page, they could do so much there.
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    I edited my comment to make what you said here more clear in my original statement. As a race they're more inclusive but as a faction they're not.
    My bad, maybe I read it wrong, I see what you mean.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Rockefellah View Post
    I hope the new city will be a combination of Upper- and Undercity
    That would be brilliant. The undercity without a roof, but just a giant open-topped dungeon system underneath the vestiges of the upper city. Easily feasible with today's graphics requirements.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    My bad, maybe I read it wrong, I see what you mean.
    That's fine, sometimes I write with sleep in my eyes hahaha
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  5. #105
    Scarab Lord Polybius's Avatar
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    No. Lordaeron should remain as is. The Undead returning home means Gilneas can properly return.

  6. #106
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Could be cool. I mean, lore-wise, Stratholme is a blank page, they could do so much there.
    Something like this?



    I think the Argent Lordaeronians should just join the Horde at this point since the Forsaken are their people, the Blood Elves were their closest allies during the Alliance of Lordaeron days, and Calia Menethil is their royalty and she's Horde

    there's also the Blackthorn Bandits who were allies with Sylvanas (well yeah they were possessed but it's within the realm of possibilities that they continued being allies for their best interests; I'd even wager that the human spies of Thrall were the Blackthorns) and they could persuade the Ravenholdt to join them
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

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  7. #107
    I think this would of only been possible if Calia was the made the Queen of Lordaeron. But then you likely would of had fringe humans and Forsaken both rebelling against her on different fronts and core base loyal to her while likely very distrusting on one another. That actually could of been an interesting plot point if properly developed.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    Something like this?



    I think the Argent Lordaeronians should just join the Horde at this point since the Forsaken are their people, the Blood Elves were their closest allies during the Alliance of Lordaeron days, and Calia Menethil is their royalty and she's Horde

    there's also the Blackthorn Bandits who were allies with Sylvanas (well yeah they were possessed but it's within the realm of possibilities that they continued being allies for their best interests; I'd even wager that the human spies of Thrall were the Blackthorns) and they could persuade the Ravenholdt to join them
    I think that Alterak should belong to Horde here, with Andoral and upper half of Silverpine forest. Eastern plaguelands with Hearthglen - neutral with Alliance affinity.
    Northern Lordaeron - Horde bridge between forsaken and BE.
    Then south part of upper EK - Alliance with small hub in Hummerfall and Raventusk.

  9. #109
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    Something like this?



    I think the Argent Lordaeronians should just join the Horde at this point since the Forsaken are their people, the Blood Elves were their closest allies during the Alliance of Lordaeron days, and Calia Menethil is their royalty and she's Horde

    there's also the Blackthorn Bandits who were allies with Sylvanas (well yeah they were possessed but it's within the realm of possibilities that they continued being allies for their best interests; I'd even wager that the human spies of Thrall were the Blackthorns) and they could persuade the Ravenholdt to join them
    A bit more simple an idea, really.

    Eastern and Western Plaguelands as they are, managed and protected by the Argent Dawn and Cenarion Circle, offering a unified home within the lands, and Stratholme as the capital. No separation. Argent Dawn stands for protection and Cenarion Circle for the renewal of the lands.

    There would not be taken land from others, as we already see the Forsaken work on their lands, and negotiating the opportunity for Gilneas to return and fully claim theirs.
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  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    I'd rather see Stratholme rebuilt and together with the Argent Dawn, kept in neutral control for the Humans and Forsaken that wish to still remain together. Without dominating Forsaken building design.
    Honestly I just want Forsaken to get a damn PORT! They have all this navy, were are the docks for it???

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    I wouldn't say they are all Horde. Velonara said that all night elves who want to return are allowed to do so, which implies some will. Void elf dark rangers are not explained though, so we can only speculate on that matter. I don't really expect to see them at all in future, I guess they just got the option because blood elves did too, without any special lore reasons.

    That being said, Lordaeron is clearly being rebuilded and retaken by the Horde with possible restoration of Gilneas for Alliance in future.
    I doubt it will be explained. Like you said it's almost certainly a case of "Blood elves got something, give it to void elves too.". Although Void Elves have some major skin tones, hair styles and colours that the blood elves do not have. It would be nice for those (without the void tentacles obviously) to go the other way. Instead of hardly seen jewel pieces.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    When?

    The city was destroyed by Arthas at the start of the Third War and only briefly retaken by Alliance forces led by Garithos, until they were wiped out by Sylvanas.

    Then the Alliance tried twice to reclaim Lordaeron, first under Varian, then under Anduin (and they were actually successful, until Sylvanas did the only thing she can do and started blighting everything).

    You know what they say about the third time, but now the Alliance doesn't need to be hostile to reclaim their rightful place in Lordaeron. They can reach an agreement with Calia.
    During the third war, especially circa undead campaign, the ironically called alliance of lordaeron, abandoned lordaeron
    we're talking about stormwind, stromgarde, kul'tiras, dalaran, alterac. Gilneas L I T E R A L L Y erected a huge wall instead of aiding.

    yeah. abandoned.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    And Undercity was abandoned and blighted by the Horde.
    nice try, but burning your city (to kill attackers) while rehoming the refugees isn't the same thing.
    a pyrrhic victory and abandonment aren't the same at all.

    The alliance of lordaeron watched lordaeron suffer. Gilneas put up a wall lmao

    wonder why the forsaken are horde? Because the alliance abandoned them.
    Quel'thalas was alliance territory too... and they also got abandoned during the third war.

    Abandoning allies is kinda what the alliance does.

  13. #113
    I think the idea of Undercity being Horde and Lordaeron being neutral would be pretty alright. That being said, the entire questline in 9.2.5 is about Calia being accepted into the Forsaken, so it's pretty squarely owned by the Forsaken at this point.

    I kind of assume night elves and void elves getting dark ranger customization is a "coolness over lore accuracy" moment because honestly it doesn't make a whole lot of sense no matter how I look at it. Void elves being dark rangers would be incredibly rare or nonexistent, and night elf dark rangers we know of were a part of the Horde...and I mean, they might have defected but we've never seen any evidence that I can think of.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Irian View Post
    I think the idea of Undercity being Horde and Lordaeron being neutral would be pretty alright. That being said, the entire questline in 9.2.5 is about Calia being accepted into the Forsaken, so it's pretty squarely owned by the Forsaken at this point.

    I kind of assume night elves and void elves getting dark ranger customization is a "coolness over lore accuracy" moment because honestly it doesn't make a whole lot of sense no matter how I look at it. Void elves being dark rangers would be incredibly rare or nonexistent, and night elf dark rangers we know of were a part of the Horde...and I mean, they might have defected but we've never seen any evidence that I can think of.
    the alliance players would cry rivers of blood if they were excluded. dassit

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    During the third war, especially circa undead campaign, the ironically called alliance of lordaeron, abandoned lordaeron
    we're talking about stormwind, stromgarde, kul'tiras, dalaran, alterac. Gilneas L I T E R A L L Y erected a huge wall instead of aiding.

    yeah. abandoned.

    - - - Updated - - -



    nice try, but burning your city (to kill attackers) while rehoming the refugees isn't the same thing.
    a pyrrhic victory and abandonment aren't the same at all.

    The alliance of lordaeron watched lordaeron suffer. Gilneas put up a wall lmao

    wonder why the forsaken are horde? Because the alliance abandoned them.
    Quel'thalas was alliance territory too... and they also got abandoned during the third war.

    Abandoning allies is kinda what the alliance does.
    LOL did you not play the event/see the cutscene? Sylvanas blights her own people and had set the whole place up as a trap. You think she was planning to go back there and clean up the blight if the Alliance died?

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    LOL did you not play the event/see the cutscene? Sylvanas blights her own people and had set the whole place up as a trap. You think she was planning to go back there and clean up the blight if the Alliance died?
    What I am saying is that she at least evacuated her people (forsaken refugees in orgrimmar) and that the alliance of lordaeron completely ignored lordaeron until the end of the third war.

    Sylvanas and the horde forsaken/lordaeron undead will forever have more claim to lordaeron/undercity whatever you want to call it over the stormwind humans that abandoned them during the third war.


    GILNEAS BUILT A WALL TO KEEP THEMSELVES SAFE LMAO THEY DID NOT CARE ABOUT LORDAERON

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    So it seems like most people here who disagree with me missed the latest news and skipped my OP, truly a pity.

    "Only the Forsaken have rights to Lordaeron", a group of Forsaken Dark Rangers have now joined the Ren'dorei. Hence, Void elves now get Dark Ranger customization options. Thus, the Alliance gains the same rights to Lordaeron that the Horde had for years.

    "Forsaken can only be Horde", false. Alonsus Faol, in Before the Storm, was stated to be a Forsaken, even though he swore allegiance not to the Horde, but to the neutral Conclave. Thus, the Ren'dorei Dark Rangers are still Forsaken. Forsaken are not defined by being part of the Horde. After all, they first tried to join the Alliance.

    It seems to me that some people here simply can't move on with the times.

    "Forsaken have always been Horde!!!" (ignoring Faol in Legion) the situation has now changed, with the Ren'dorei gaining some Forsaken in their ranks. Hence, why I can now make my Void elf look like a Dark Ranger.

    This new patch recontextualizes everything we have ever known about Lordaeron, as some of its fallen defenders have now joined the Alliance's Ren'dorei.

    Whether people here want to admit it or not, now the Horde no longer has exclusivity to Lordaeron.
    Right.

    Dark rangers = not automatically forsaken
    Forsaken is the Faction of the playable undead race but also the race.

    Most of the Dark rangers are what are called Darkfallen i.e undead elves.

    Alonsus Faol is not a forsaken as in the faction(horde), but as in that he is a undead who has will power.(forsaken race) but his also NOT ALLIANCE, he makes that very much clear in the same book that you quoted.

    When Nathanos Blightcaller reproached Alonsus for fraternizing with the Alliance High King, Faol claimed he was politically neutral as he was not a member of the Horde, but a simple priest of the Light. He remained in the Undercity for a few days to address any questions or concerns about the Gathering. According to Blightcaller, at one point he suggested that Faol pledge fealty to Sylvanas and the Horde, but the archbishop demurred, saying he preferred "'to serve the Light rather than kings or queens.'"

    while there are Living Lorderanians in The Alliance, their actual claim on Undercity is not really worth much, considering that Calia i.e the Heir of the throne of the Last King of Lordaeron is still around. there may be claims but right now, the Alliance is not exactly position to push for those claims

    I'm an alliance main player, I don't want the Undercity, I want blizzard to stop stomping on the night elves for a frigging change, because bloody hell right up until fairly recently Alliance is 96% human questlines, 1% dwarfs, 1% Worgen 1% etc etc and that's just counting the main races and not the allied races..because oh boy..

    also..Dark rangers HAS NOT CLAIM TO LORDAERON, they are not native to that kingdom, they have never served that kingdom, at all. there might be outliers but the grand scheme of things, no there is no claim from the dark rangers who now serves the Alliance for Lordaeron.

    TLDR: Dark rangers has no claim to lordaeron, please read the whole thing before quoting something and please your poll is biased.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    the alliance players would cry rivers of blood if they were excluded. dassit
    nah i'm good. they should update all the cities and honestly start to remove stuff from Stormwind/Orgrimmar once the cities are updated

    or Make things more common in other cities. but hey that's a discussion for another day.
    Last edited by Kharli; 2022-06-04 at 09:35 AM.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    During the third war, especially circa undead campaign, the ironically called alliance of lordaeron, abandoned lordaeron
    we're talking about stormwind, stromgarde, kul'tiras, dalaran, alterac. Gilneas L I T E R A L L Y erected a huge wall instead of aiding.

    yeah. abandoned.

    - - - Updated - - -



    nice try, but burning your city (to kill attackers) while rehoming the refugees isn't the same thing.
    a pyrrhic victory and abandonment aren't the same at all.

    The alliance of lordaeron watched lordaeron suffer. Gilneas put up a wall lmao

    wonder why the forsaken are horde? Because the alliance abandoned them.
    Quel'thalas was alliance territory too... and they also got abandoned during the third war.

    Abandoning allies is kinda what the alliance does.
    Stormwind was in civil war from the Defias uprising.

    Stromgarde was apparently being besieged by trolls, bandits, and ogres. You will note that it is destroyed in WoW and occupied by these monsters.

    Kul Tiras was an insular nation that couldn't exactly do much for a mainland country. Nonetheless, Daelin travelled to Kalimdor to look for the Lordaeron survivors which he knew landed there.

    Dalaran was literally a city state, what were they supposed to do against an entire kingdom blighted with zombies? Plus, they were literally next to the scourged Lordaeron and had to look after themselves too. If they tried to help Lordaeron City, the Scourge would just attack the undefended Dalaran.

    Alterac was already destroyed and occupied by bandits.

    Gilneas had left the Alliance after the Second War.

    Quel'thalas was alliance territory too.
    Quel'Thalas literally left the Alliance after the Second War???

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kharli View Post
    TLDR: Dark rangers has no claim to lordaeron, please read the whole thing before quoting something and please your poll is biased.
    Nope, you're wrong. Sylvanas stated that the Forsaken have a right to Lordaeron by virtue of being its founders and she did not specify that Dark Rangers are excluded from this claim.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2022-06-04 at 10:33 AM.

  19. #119
    Pit Lord Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    As a disclaimer, I don't think the Alliance has any claim to Lordaeron as it currently stands. The Forsaken are the people of Lordaeron, it's their city and they are the majority of the remaining people of Lordaeron, so it's up to them if they want the Alliance to enter or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    The alliance of lordaeron watched lordaeron suffer. Gilneas put up a wall lmao
    The Alliance didn't simply "[watch] Lordaeron suffer". Gil'neas had pulled out of the Alliance and constructed the Greymane Wall at the end of the Second War, and Stormgarde pulled out at the same time. This would go on to being one of the worst scenarios that could have occurred as they were the two closest neighbors of Lordaeron, excluding Dalaran.

    Regarding Gilneas' gate, it was barred during the Scourging of Lordaeron. When Genn did order troops through the gate (albeit, in fear the wall would break) they were promptly slaughtered by the Scourge and raised into undeath. The only other northern human nation that was not allied with the Alliance, the Kingdom of Stormgarde, was barely able to hold the Scourge back and could not advance. Essentially, the kingdoms were unable to effectively combat the Scourge regardless.

    Something else that should be kept in mind is that all of the events in Warcraft 3: Reign of Chaos, which includes the Scourging of Lordaeron, occurred within a year. Moreover, the Scourging of Lordaeron was essentially complete by the time that Archimonde was summoned by Kel'thuzad, and was itself the final nail in the coffin for the northern human kingdoms as Archimonde would go on to destroy Dalaran.

    Quel'thalas was alliance territory too... and they also got abandoned during the third war.
    No, the Kingdom of Quel'thalas left the Alliance of Lordaeron after the Second War and before the Third, which was the instigating event which caused the Kingdom of Gilneas and Kingdom of Stromgarde to leave the Alliance. When the Scourging of Lordaeron was underway and Quel'thalas was being attacked, not only was there nothing the Alliance was able to do at that time, as three of the closest kingdoms within the Alliance of Lordaeron had opted to pull out, there was nothing they were obligated to do. It was Quel'thalas that abandoned the Alliance, not the other way around.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    Something like this?



    I think the Argent Lordaeronians should just join the Horde at this point since the Forsaken are their people, the Blood Elves were their closest allies during the Alliance of Lordaeron days, and Calia Menethil is their royalty and she's Horde

    there's also the Blackthorn Bandits who were allies with Sylvanas (well yeah they were possessed but it's within the realm of possibilities that they continued being allies for their best interests; I'd even wager that the human spies of Thrall were the Blackthorns) and they could persuade the Ravenholdt to join them
    In this patch the Blood Elves defeat the Sanlayn Vorath and his undead army. then give half of their kingdom to the sanlayn and the undead?

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