What are you going to press when the social contract pops up?

[Goatfish]

This reminds me of a tweet I read the other day regarding firearms in the US:
"If universal background checks and red flag laws create an insurmountable barrier to you owning a fiream, then YOU are person we're worried about."

Same goes for the social contract. Does it come of as patronizing to hear such things from a company like blizz? Yeah sure, but if you honestly feel severely restricted because you are not allowed to behave like an animal.. then maybe YOU are the problem.

I mean, this just sounds like someone who just doesn't understand how these laws work and probably greatly overestimates their effectiveness. There is one class of insecure and childish people that effectively wants 24/7 surveillance on everyone because "If you don't like it then it means you must have something to hide!" Let's all just dictate how everyone needs to act and build the utopia together! /s

I think you specifically outline the attitude that I have a problem with surrounding this whole thing. I probably have a better in game reputation than most people on this forum with all the time I spend helping out in the mentorship community and the extra actions I take to add a little humanity and humor to groups. I also perform in the top 10% of players so people who don't care about that other shit generally enjoy having me around too. I WANT to see the people who "act like animals" way more than I want to see the people who don't say a fucking word and drop group because of a single wipe. I want to hear how people feel and not deny their experience just because some people have skin like rice paper.

I just can't even imagine the sheer hubris of wanting to control how someone else speaks and expresses themselves until it falls under the level of harassment. The issue is that these soft people think a single message qualifies as harassment and that they somehow can get traumatized by a few words a stranger on the internet says. This whole narcissistic thought process of "I'm not going to listen to you because you need to educate yourself and I'm not going to do it." Ya'll would rather remove people from society than try to understand or teach your fellow man.

[Super Kami Dende]

You see, the thing is that people who make the argument that the victims are to blame for their own "sensitive reactions" are unironically making the argument that people who get upset at being insulted, at being subjected to strings of bigoted slurs being hurled around etc shouldn't be playing games. Basically, if you're not an edgelord who grew up calling people racial slurs in MW2 lobbies and learned to shrug off abhorrent behavior, you're not welcome in videogames.

It fits in perfectly with the lack of empathy and compassion that so many people on the internet seem to be proud of.

The biggest irony, of course, is that in my experience, all these loud-mouthed edgelords on the internet are the exact opposite in real life situations.

The fact they said it is subject to change at any point just means what is acceptable to say now they might decide isn't in 6 months. So absolutely fuck all that noise. Sensitive dipshits will always find something new to be upset about.

The sooner People learn to have even a modicum of thicker skin the better the World as a whole becomes, instead of this bubble-wrapped safe space bullshit mostly created to pander to the feelings of dudes wearing Dresses.

- - - Updated - - -

This reminds me of a tweet I read the other day regarding firearms in the US:
"If universal background checks and red flag laws create an insurmountable barrier to you owning a fiream, then YOU are person we're worried about."

Being annoyed at having to go through mountains of checks as a normal adult because of an incredibly small minority of fuckheads does not make you a bad person. Adults shouldn't be patronized because a small amount of People are bad.

Grow the fuck up.

[Byleth]

/snip

tl;dr

Let me teach you in the ways of strawman 101!

I'm so awesome, and I don't get offended by anything ever!

How dare other people take offence to other peoples bad behavior!!

[DarkAmbient]

Didn't even read it, just clicked. Like every single terms & conditions agreement ever.

[Lolites]

The sooner People learn to have even a modicum of thicker skin the better the World as a whole becomes, instead of this bubble-wrapped safe space bullshit mostly created to pander to the feelings of dudes wearing Dresses.

how about people with genuine mental issues? somebody pushes them over the edge, causing real harm - wouldnt be first time somebody was cyberbullied to suicide - screw them right?
if your ability to annoy and insult people is more important than someone else mental health or even life then you are the very problem this rules - which btw are not even new - are trying to stop...
people definitely should have thicker skin but you should NEVER EVER insult people you know nothing about, you might cause some real harm and even though someone like you would never admit it you are then partialy responsible for the outcome...

Being annoyed at having to go through mountains of checks as a normal adult because of an incredibly small minority of fuckheads does not make you a bad person.

if it stops even one mass shooter, or even prevents one person being shot, then YES, it makes you terrible person if you would rather let someone die than get mildy annoyed... how self-centered you have to be to not see that is beyond my wildest imagination...

[Goatfish]

tl;dr

Let me teach you in the ways of strawman 101!

I'm so awesome, and I don't get offended by anything ever!

How dare other people take offence to other peoples bad behavior!!

I find plenty of things offensive, it's pretty ironic that you claim I'm making a strawman while attributing things to my argument that I never said. It's completely fine to be offended, it's another thing to take that offense and use it as an excuse to remove people from society. If you can't understand the difference then I'm not sure I can help you.

how about people with genuine mental issues? somebody pushes them over the edge, causing real harm - wouldnt be first time somebody was cyberbullied to suicide - screw them right?
if your ability to annoy and insult people is more important than someone else mental health or even life then you are the very problem this rules - which btw are not even new - are trying to stop...
people definitely should have thicker skin but you should NEVER EVER insult people you know nothing about, you might cause some real harm and even though someone like you would never admit it you are then partialy responsible for the outcome...

if it stops even one mass shooter, or even prevents one person being shot, then YES, it makes you terrible person if you would rather let someone die than get mildy annoyed... how self-centered you have to be to not see that is beyond my wildest imagination...

I mean, I'll happily bite that bullet. Making a society that stifles itself to cater to the weakest among us is a really really bad long term strategy, and I'm not sure how you could possibly consider opposing that as being self-centered. Even besides, it's completely dishonest to blame the one grain of rice that tipped the scales while giving no credit to the rest of the rice on the scale. If someone is in such mental distress that a single (or even hundreds of) shitty comments on the internet drives them to suicide or mass shooting, I would bet my life that there are other issues they are dealing with that played a much bigger role than a stranger on the internet saying something dumb.

Personally it's a little disgusting to me that you want to defend these kind of ideas by playing emotional games and trying to guilt trip people because a few loons, snowflakes, and psychopaths exist. Call me a terrible person all you want, it actually doesn't lend any credence to your stance. Don't you think it's just as possible that the censorship and judgmental nature you espouse may also lead to shootings or suicides? There aren't any solutions, only trade-offs, and I don't approve of the trade-off you want.

[boyzma]

It's really disturbing to see people in this thread being total douche bags for just agreeing not to be a douche. Wanna be an ass? Go play Call of Duty or Overwatch where you can really be a piece of crap and get away with it...you're not wanted or needed in Wow. What if the person you decide to target is a special needs person with real issues that can't be helped? What if they just want to be accepted and have fun even if they don't play the game to your expectations? You don't care...you'll just beat them down and laugh, you don't have to deal with the hurt they deal with. Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me, for some, many...simply is not true.

[Inoculate]

Lmao ok. Bye kid.

You don't know what /s is, do you?

[uuuhname]

I mean, this just sounds like someone who just doesn't understand how these laws work and probably greatly overestimates their effectiveness.

ya'll still pretending as if your ability to play a video game is a civil rights issue. really, you're just making the point the person your quoting is making even more accurate.

[Goatfish]

What if the person you decide to target is a special needs person with real issues that can't be helped? What if they just want to be accepted and have fun even if they don't play the game to your expectations?

If the person is special needs, then that is unfortunate. It doesn't mean we should mandate that everyone has to us certain words or act in certain ways to cater to them. If they just want to have fun, then there are plenty of ways to have fun in this game that doesn't involve wasting the time of 4 to 29 other random people, or they could find one of the multitude of specialized guilds or communities that caters to these people. I help out a mentorship community with over 600 members when I have free time, these places definitely exist if you bother to use the in-game systems to find them. If you're just pugging and you expect every player to be a saint... I think maybe your expectations for humanity are far too high.

Why do you think we need to eliminate other people from even existing in the same game? Is merely because the block function isn't enough and these people who get so disturbed by someone saying naughty words refuses to put in the minimal effort necessary to find communities that will support them? I'm genuinely curious why your stance is that we need to perform some sort of psychological eugenics on the whole WoW population instead of just encouraging these people who get hurt by a couple harsh words to find one of the many safe space communities.

It's all just so goddamn frustrating for me because the same people cheering the banning of other players DO NOT seem to be the same people who will sacrifice hours of their free time to help out other players. They justify it by saying "oh it'll be better for everyone!". Their version of "everyone" doesn't include the banned players, or the people who enjoy playing with the banned players. There is no desire to interact with those people or figure out why they might be so angry, and if you disagree for any reason then obviously you're just an awfully bad bad man whose sole desire is to go around making life hell for everyone else. But sure, you guys are obviously the good guys.

- - - Updated - - -

ya'll still pretending as if your ability to play a video game is a civil rights issue. really, you're just making the point the person your quoting is making even more accurate.

What are you even talking about? The dude brought up red flag laws and universal background checks (which don't appear to be effective at all in states where it exists), and was comparing it to the idea that if you oppose control or observation of your life then it's only because you have something to hide. There is no accuracy in that, it's pure lunacy that has been known throughout history to lead to tyranny. It's perfectly possible to have those ideas in a microcosm such as the WoW community.

I'm arguing against their stance on this issue, I never once said I have a right to play or compared this to civil rights at all. I think it's a horrible idea, but just like in real life, sometimes I just have to keep living with policies that I think are dog shit.

[uuuhname]

It's perfectly possible to have those ideas in a microcosm such as the WoW community.

Jesus fucking Christ let me know when the Blizzard hired goons show up to your house to break your knee caps over what you posted in trade chat. of course everything has to come down to your equally absurd fear over tyranny in a fucking video game.

[Goatfish]

Jesus fucking Christ let me know when the Blizzard hired goons show up to your house to break your knee caps over what you posted in trade chat. of course everything has to come down to your equally absurd fear over tyranny in a fucking video game.

Scientists have long used models to see the effects of things within a microcosm, including in WoW with the Corrupted Blood Incident. Here I was hoping your last ban might have given you some time to think about how you interact with people, but you're just going to come in swinging with the same hyperbolic bullshit all over again eh? I don't personally think you should be banned, but I do find it shocking how you can't even understand just how bad your method of communication makes you look.

[uuuhname]

Scientists have long used models to see the effects of things within a microcosm, including in WoW with the Corrupted Blood Incident. Here I was hoping your last ban might have given you some time to think about how you interact with people, but you're just going to come in swinging with the same hyperbolic bullshit all over again eh?

ohhh? you mean that exact same model for how infectious diseases works that was completely jettisoned by people like you when it came time to ask you to wear a mask in public? and instead of doing what's best for everyone you stomp your feet saying it's all China's fault this is happening?

funny how that model for how people's behavior affect other's is so apt here! thanks!

I don't personally think you should be banned, but I do find it shocking how you can't even understand just how bad your method of communication makes you look

to quote Rick Sanchez: "Your boo's mean nothing to me, I see what you people cheer."

[Zoopy]

The fact they said it is subject to change at any point just means what is acceptable to say now they might decide isn't in 6 months.

Have you ever read a ToS or EULA? Every single such document you sign is subject to change. Are you new to this whole thing or what?

The sooner People learn to have even a modicum of thicker skin the better the World as a whole becomes, instead of this bubble-wrapped safe space bullshit mostly created to pander to the feelings of dudes wearing Dresses.

It doesn't always have to do with thin skin or hurt feelings. Sometimes people just don't want to put up with toxicity. And judging by your comments, you're exactly the kind of person that most of us don't want to be forced to deal with in a videogame.

I don't need to come home from work and listen to some dude whinge about how much he hates transgender people while I'm trying to relax.

[Goatfish]

ohhh? you mean that exact same model for how infectious diseases works that was completely jettisoned by people like you when it came time to ask you to wear a mask in public? and instead of doing what's best for everyone you stomp your feet saying it's all China's fault this is happening?

funny how that model for how people's behavior affect other's is so apt here! thanks!



to quote Rick Sanchez: "Your boo's mean nothing to me, I see what you people cheer."

Please feel free to look through my post history to substantiate any of these claims about my beliefs, I'll wait. If you want to bring some actual arguments I'll be happy to engage in the meantime, but attempting to insult and dismiss me isn't going to lead to a productive conversation.

If we want to go to quotes instead of supplying our own ideas, how about good old George Washington instead of your fictional cartoon character: "If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter." Or maybe we can even go a bit older to Lao Tzu: "I am good to people who are good. I am also good to people who are not good. Because Virtue is goodness."

[Zoopy]

"If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

A code of conduct in a privately owned videogame has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

Unless you want to show me where in the constitution it says "and thou shalt be allowed to say whatever thy liketh in or on the property of a privately owned business and they cannot do nothing to thee."

[FelPlague]

Quality comment here, that's what I thought as well haha. A player does not take action or participate in your group effort? Don't call him out on it, it's harassment

"Hey dud your dps is bad, sorry"
*You have been kicked

I am often called toxic, and even I am basic af enough to know how to kick someone without being a fuckweed.

[uuuhname]

A code of conduct in a privately owned videogame has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

Unless you want to show me where in the constitution it says "and thou shalt be allowed to say whatever thy liketh in or on the property of a privately owned business and they cannot do nothing to thee."

no you see this person's greatest fear in life is the mere threat of being held to account by others in a society.

[Zoopy]

no you see this person's greatest fear in life is the mere threat of being held to account by others in a society.

It's always interesting for me that these freedom of speech crusaders only pop out of the woodwork when it's about insulting other people or talking shit about minorities.

[uuuhname]

Please feel free to look through my post history to substantiate any of these claims about my beliefs, I'll wait. If you want to bring some actual arguments I'll be happy to engage in the meantime, but attempting to insult and dismiss me isn't going to lead to a productive conversation.

If we want to go to quotes instead of supplying our own ideas, how about good old George Washington instead of your fictional cartoon character: "If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter." Or maybe we can even go a bit older to Lao Tzu: "I am good to people who are good. I am also good to people who are not good. Because Virtue is goodness."

you're free to at any point connect the logic behind "hey, wear a mask in public" to "hey, don't be an asshole in this video game." ball's in your court bro.