How does an entire system redesign possibly seem like a budget cutback lol?
(Also the budget has not been cut )
This looks so awesome. Very happy blizz is now trying to cater to casuals more and less to the elitists.
Looks fun and good. You can show these grumpy old men of MMOC their own photos and they would object to that too.
I never said to wait until the end. They haven't even opened it up to testing by the players. At least wait until Alpha acutally starts before one craps on it.
So we go right back to the old trees which was nothing more than a percent increase of an existing talent. YOu might as well not even bpther if that is all it is going to be.All I want is to keep core baseline abilities that classes/specs already have and not move them into talents. I never said anything about creating all new abilities. I never objected to existing talents continuing to be talents.
Yeah, if they made the talent trees entirely active abilities and entirely new stuff, that would be insane, but there's no reason to do that. Plenty of stuff could be passives that interact with gameplay, the same way that conduits and legendary effects do now, and azerite armor and artifact traits have in the past. Active abilities, for people who want more buttons, could continue to be allowing people to choose abilities currently only available to specific specs, just as they are doing, or to keep active abilities they might have already experienced through covenants, artifacts, neck essences, etc. Maybe a holy paladin could now pick an interrupt, maybe a mage wants to keep Deathbourne, whatever.
They could easily do this same kind of thing they are already trying to do with these previews, except without putting stuff like interrupts, dispels, etc, into the trees. They could instead make those spots talents ones to improve those things instead. Zero extra bloat there.
If this were handled like the old trees you would have a point. However, you will be able to respec freely and not only that, you will be able to save multiple builds at the same time. So this whole "forced choice" does not exist.If you put really important shit in talents, there will be two results:
(1) either everyone takes these because they absolutely have to, in which case what the point of making it a talent if there isn't any real choice?
(2) Some people don't take these things and you end up having to make sure the people you play with aren't doing stupid things like heading into a raging week without a tranq or healing without the ability to dispel, etc.
So we go back to the old trees then. THAT is what would be stupid. Being able to respec freely and save multiple builds renders this a non issue. IF your raid team needs 20 poeople with an interrupt, you have a problem.Both of those situations are stupid, and all it requires to "fix" is taking the handful of super important utility or core spells like interrupts out of the trees and keeping them baseline for specs that already have them, and replacing those spots in the trees with things that buff or modify that utility instead. It would not cause any extra bloat, and it addresses a very valid and serious risk that is caused by making those things optional.
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Uhh, there are no budget cutbacks. In fact, the budget has increased. What is amusing is people continuing to make basleess claims simply because they do not like something.
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Opinions are not fact. Also, a vocal minority trying to claim what is right doesn't make that fact either. This is the argument people use simply because they don't like something.
Further, Blizzard will iterate on this many times from now until live. At least wait until Alpha is opened to players to actually work with it first before complaining.
honest question - how does this cater to causals ?
if anything good players will be forced to inspect most likely with extrenal addon talents after invites and kicking anyone who isnt bis build.
if anything it will make like of casuls suffer more because not only they will meet ith rejection of invites to groups but also kicks after getting invited.
Facts are facts though, it is a fact that Blizzard has a pattern of ignoring player feedback on shit design choices. The pattern exists, you pretending it doesn't change that fact. While it is no means a guarantee that this abominable iteration of the talent system will remain as outright terrible as it currently is, it certainly isn't wise to bet they'll change it significantly until after it has been out on live for at least 2 months.
It is a fact that this system brings almost no new abilities or passives in its current state, as the majority of it is simply spells being removed from your spellbook and being placed into a talent tree. The few things that aren't currently spells are almost entirely legendary or covenant powers. Do I expect them to cut down on how many baseline abilities they rip out of your class or spec to shove into this terrible talent tree? Not to any meaningful degree. Their iterating on shit design rarely results in anything other than them eventually only partially fixing the problem they created, often 3-12 months down the line from when it went live.
All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.
still a lotta design work. A lot of the abilities will probably be a little different too, esp covenant ones.
I don't know, but I guess I was never exited about soulbinds or conduits, they all seemed like a waste of resources that could have been spent on actual classes, which in theory is what is going on now!
Dunno, i think a better criticism is just the usual here that they shouldn't have so many abilities in the trees. I'd rather have stuff to "mutate" them.
Balance is a combination of all factors/sources that contribute to throughput.
That being said they will tweak these and they won't make everyone happy but it is better than feeling weak at the beginning of every expansion when they take things away like in a linear metroid game.
Last edited by Unholyground; 2022-06-06 at 03:03 AM.
I never said they were succeeding with this. But to call this a budget cut is not only boldly disingenuous—we don’t even know how more things of this expansion will work. There wasn’t exactly much revealed besides talents, new race / class, and dragon riding. And of those three, two are completely new iterations. I don’t care if they’re repurposing skeletons or animations, or if the quality is good or bad - they’re committing resources and time to make these things.
Let alone how the new talent system definitely isn’t a drag and drop change. They most likely are using the same infrastructure as conduits, artifacts, etc. but, if even so, it’s using a lot of time and effort they didn’t even need to do. We could’ve just had the same MoP talents and that’d save a lot of money.
But they didn’t.
As for casual appeal, considering the popularity of Classic servers and the resurgence of things being less dumbed down — including other MMORPGs, I’m confident in saying this isn’t that far out there to assume it’s meant for casual players.
The majority of whom will use and interact with this system. Doesn’t matter if they use icyveins or WoWhead at max level or while leveling. People do this with Path of Exile and many other branching progression systems, and we don’t see them going the MoP talent route.
While I hope this is the case, you still need to factor in a few specs / classes rely heavily on certain stat breakthrough points or just use of said stats in general to function really well. Havoc DH is a great example of a spec that is dog doodoo without enough haste and feedback loops to continue pumping out procs and laser beams. Fury Warrior and Fire mage used to be this way but I don’t know if they improved their innate badluck protection talents and abilities.
Last edited by PenguinChan; 2022-06-06 at 03:20 AM.
Classes that rely too heavily on a stat should get that stat boosted to a point once they hit Max level so that they are not under performing instantly, then once you hit a certain gear level the gear takes over the stats and the bonus reduces as that stat climbs closer to diminishing returns. It is definitely not the most elegant way to solve the issue but it would work for any class that's heavily stated with one major stat.
Indeed, and at least one baseline CC, they can even make worse versions baseline and add the current SL version as an upgrade in the tree, but making Interrupts and CCs as talents are a terrible idea.
Many people hate to use CCs and Interrupts, making them something exclusive will give these people an excuse to avoid doing their job.
It's going to be a shitshow, and like Tziva said it's going to be everywhere.
see not really because on the downside they've literally offered you no new spells or abilities that require modeling, new spell animations, balancing, testing etc etc at the most the new talent system simplest shuffles already existing stuff into a new array for you to pick. Same wine new bottle. The talent rework should also include actual new shit but appears not to include anything. It'll be easy to handle ability bloat... they just stop giving you new ones and in fact make you pick and choose from availability.
And it also feels awful Are you fucking kidding me I have to put a point into fucking tranquility. Had that spell baseline since fucking time. Now I have to purchase it back. cmon..
Even without new spells/spell animations it still cost money to make the new UI, code the new tree's and the branching, make spec specific ability's class wide and balance them, Change the code so some skills are no longer base line, make sure nothing breaks along the way ect ect.
Literally every hour of work they are putting into these tree's cost them more money then just leaving the old systems alone and having there designers and coders do something more important.
All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.