What are you going to press when the social contract pops up?

[Goatfish]

you're free to at any point connect the logic behind "hey, wear a mask in public" to "hey, don't be an asshole in this video game." ball's in your court bro.

Those are claims you made, not me. The onus is on you to connect the logic. I'm honestly confused why you would even bring up masks or China unless you're just trying to stir the shitpot, but I'm more than happy to leave it to the mods here to decide if you are trolling, shitposting, or rage baiting.

A code of conduct in a privately owned videogame has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

Unless you want to show me where in the constitution it says "and thou shalt be allowed to say whatever thy liketh in or on the property of a privately owned business and they cannot do nothing to thee."

Because the concept of freedom of speech can ONLY apply to the government. /s

I'm not even a free speech absolutist, but when someone is going to claim that my speech is violence and that I should be removed because calling someone bad is immoral... you can bet your bottom dollar that I'm going to speak up. What it comes down to is that none of these changes are substantiated by anything, it's just morality policing people based off ideology. The primary argument for this kind of policy Blizzard implemented is that some speech is harmful and therefore the freedom of speech must be limited, and you can see that clearly reflected in the arguments of most people protecting this policy.

I don't fully agree with that argument, nor with the assumption that all "harm" is bad. The whole reason I speak up about this, if you look back at my posts through this thread, is that my belief is the protecting people from this potential harm is actually detrimental. Attempting to turn all of WoW into a safe space is absurd to me, and I have yet to hear a single argument that isn't an attempt at emotional manipulation or a dismissal (the "hurr, private companies can do what they want so fuck private individuals" stance) to justify it.

[uuuhname]

Those are claims you made, not me. The onus is on you to connect the logic. I'm honestly confused why you would even bring up masks or China unless you're just trying to stir the shitpot, but I'm more than happy to leave it to the mods here to decide if you are trolling, shitposting, or rage baiting.

Jesus Christ dude...

"hey, there is a pandemic going on, can you please wear a mask?"
vs
"hey, can you please promise to not be an asshole to other people? trying to play a video game?"

you really cannot grasp the logic that connects these two questions? really?

I genuinely do not understand how asking you to examine these two statements is trolling or trying to bait you. I'm asking for the bare minimum of logical consistency here.

also! YOU'RE the one that brought up the blood god infection event and how that relates to the real world. sorry if it just so happens to work towards making my point better than yours...?

[Mysterymask]

"Hey dud your dps is bad, sorry"
*You have been kicked

I am often called toxic, and even I am basic af enough to know how to kick someone without being a fuckweed.

But if you dont question their sexuality and tell them to kill themselves how will they have the proper World of Warcraft community experience®

[Goatfish]

Jesus Christ dude...

"hey, there is a pandemic going on, can you please wear a mask?"
vs
"hey, can you please promise to not be an asshole to other people? trying to play a video game?"

you really cannot grasp the logic that connects these two questions? really?

I genuinely do not understand how asking you to examine these two statements is trolling or trying to bait you. I'm asking for the bare minimum of logical consistency here.

also! YOU'RE the one that brought up the blood god infection event and how that relates to the real world. sorry if it just so happens to work towards making my point better than yours...?

I brought up the pandemic research in the microcosm of WoW as an example of how scientists use microcosms to study the effects of things. I did this because you were making the claim that a form of tyranny is irrelevant in video games, when the point is that it can be used to view similar behavior that could be adapted in real life. You were the one who connected it to masks (and accused me of being anti-mask). I assume you want me to admit that bad behavior in a video game is the same thing as a virus, and I wholeheartedly disagree. Dealing with bad behavior is closer to doing mental pushups than it is being afflicted by a disease, it will feel unpleasant to start if you are weak. As you choose to deal with more and build a strong mental foundation you can progress to a point that it doesn't bother you and instead you can start looking past it and helping those people with bad attitudes instead of simply erasing them from society. This is established science at this point, though the same as with exercise it is possible to overdo it, and that's what the block and/or log-off buttons are for. My entire argument through this whole thread is based on the fact that avoiding hardship is just as bad as having too much. It's the whole reason why the brain releases dopamine when you encounter frustration, your very biology recognizes that it's a good thing for your future survival to encounter and overcome hardship.

I never specifically said you were trolling, personally I think you just have an agenda you are dead set on screaming about and have some literacy problems in following lines of thought in an ongoing written conversation. It's a common problem I've seen throughout your posts. My friendly recommendation is to take some time off, probably from the internet as a whole, and really think about why you imagine everyone who disagrees with you as being some monster of a certain political ideology with a certain set of beliefs you decide to ascribe to them.

[uuuhname]

My friendly recommendation is to take some time off, probably from the internet as a whole, and really think about why you imagine everyone who disagrees with you as being some monster of a certain political ideology with a certain set of beliefs you decide to ascribe to them.

all I've been asking is why is it so hard be be a decent human being to others? that's literally all I've been arguing here dude. but you people screaming your heads off over tyranny. A) have no idea what actual tyranny is. B) YOU are even more ideologically driven to make the the point that asking you to a decent person in a video game is one step on the road to tyranny or what the fuck ever. you going on about it up and down this thread is proof of that. and sorry if I don't bother to engage in your mini essays and skip to the parts that really matter.

like, cool, go ahead lying about what I've said to justify your position all you want, it doesn't make it all less sad in my eyes.

[Starfals]

Accept duhh, I'm there to play the game that I pay for. The only way to exit is when I stop paying.

[callipygoustp]

5 days of the social contract, 10 times I've been kicked out a group. WTF!


...and I have yet to decide whether or not I am going to accept the social contract.

[Goatfish]

all I've been asking is why is it so hard be be a decent human being to others? that's literally all I've been arguing here dude. but you people screaming your heads off over tyranny. A) have no idea what actual tyranny is. B) YOU are even more ideologically driven to make the the point that asking you to a decent person in a video game is one step on the road to tyranny or what the fuck ever. you going on about it up and down this thread is proof of that. and sorry if I don't bother to engage in your mini essays and skip to the parts that really matter.

like, cool, go ahead lying about what I've said to justify your position all you want, it doesn't make it all less sad in my eyes.

I mean, it's all recorded here. If you would bother to read the whole paragraph I make it very clear. The tyranny comment was related to red flag laws and universal background checks and the idea that it's better to trade our privacy and autonomy for security. Tyranny meaning "a rigorous condition imposed by some outside agency or force", which is exactly what those laws are. It doesn't matter if you don't like that the word describes them.

I guess asking you to read more than a tweets length post is too much of an imposition, as is asking you to engage in any topic in good faith apparently. I gave you my recommendation, though if I may be so bold as to offer a second... Maybe you should actually read the posts you are responding to instead of cutting it up to find the most triggering out of context parts. Just think of it as advice from your forum elder.

[Biomega]

Tyranny meaning "a rigorous condition imposed by some outside agency or force"

If you want to use that definition for tyranny, then ALL laws are tyranny. Heck, your dad saying be home by 10 is tyranny under that definition.

That's why when most people say "tyranny" they mean JUST A LITTLE BIT more than that.

You're free to use any definition you wish. Heck, you can define tyranny as "vanilla, with sprinkles" if you like. Just don't get upset when people use it in ways not in line with your definition.

That's... how all communication works.

P.S.: it's more than mildly ironic that you proffer an incredibly broad and vague definition of tyranny to make your point and then lament people not arguing in good faith. Just sayin'

[Mysterymask]

How has this thread devolved into thinking the first amendment applies to a fucking video game...

Cause funny enough free speech only applies to telling your opinion on things...you can and will still get arrested for threats in the US and screaming stupid shit in a Walmart can still get you thrown out of said Walmart.

If someone comes to your house and starts screaming bullshit you are within your rights to throw them the fuck out. Same goes with wow you are on THEIR servers and you start breaking THEIR rules you get banned

The second Blizz sends the cops to your house cause you told someone who has bad DPS they are a f***** then you can scream free speech

[Goatfish]

If you want to use that definition for tyranny, then ALL laws are tyranny. Heck, your dad saying be home by 10 is tyranny under that definition.

That's why when most people say "tyranny" they mean JUST A LITTLE BIT more than that.

You're free to use any definition you wish. Heck, you can define tyranny as "vanilla, with sprinkles" if you like. Just don't get upset when people use it in ways not in line with your definition.

That's... how all communication works.

P.S.: it's more than mildly ironic that you proffer an incredibly broad and vague definition of tyranny to make your point and then lament people not arguing in good faith. Just sayin'

I mean, go argue with Webster and the historical usage of the word. Just because you want to inflate the meaning to suggest the worst possible thing is not my problem. I mean the top example in a sentence currently used by Merriam-Webster is: "Cars freed Americans, already infamous for their mobility, from the tyranny of train schedules." This example was as recent as 2003 by a reporter from the Wallstreet Journal.

Call me bad faith all you want, but you guys are the ones trying to enforce your specific definitions on me. I can't help you if you're so terminally online that you now automatically think of everything from the most radical position you can and then argue from that point as if it somehow validates your opinion as a tautology.

[Biomega]

I mean, go argue with Webster and the historical usage of the word.

Are you for real?

You're picking one specific - and, by the way, METAPHORICAL - use of it and apply it broadly?

You know WHY there's tons of entries under that term in the dictionary, right? Or why you can write entire books trying to explain terms like this, rather than having one-sentence-fits-all easy coverage?

Are you just trolling now?

[Goatfish]

How has this thread devolved into thinking the first amendment applies to a fucking video game...

Cause funny enough free speech only applies to telling your opinion on things...you can and will still get arrested for threats in the US and screaming stupid shit in a Walmart can still get you thrown out of said Walmart.

If someone comes to your house and starts screaming bullshit you are within your rights to throw them the fuck out. Same goes with wow you are on THEIR servers and you start breaking THEIR rules you get banned

The second Blizz sends the cops to your house cause you told someone who has bad DPS they are a f***** then you can scream free speech

I mean the first amendment is based on a 2500+ year old idea, just bringing up freedom of speech does not mean it necessarily comes to the first US amendment. It's perfectly possible to argue for it from a philosophical and a practical viewpoint.

I've been pretty clear that I think there should probably be some restrictions, but the current implementation goes too far imo. Everyone likes to pretend it's only about direct and continuous harassment, but it's obviously not as I referenced earlier by someone who got a 14 day silence for saying "the government turned the frogs gay" as a joke. We probably won't ever know the actual stats on who got banned for what, or why. The biggest part I dislike about the contract is the lack of transparency and the vagueness of terminology.

It's not my fault if people can't actually operate on that level and insist on building strawmen of the most extreme and obvious cases when I'm arguing on the edges.

- - - Updated - - -

Are you for real?

You're picking one specific - and, by the way, METAPHORICAL - use of it and apply it broadly?

You know WHY there's tons of entries under that term in the dictionary, right? Or why you can write entire books trying to explain terms like this, rather than having one-sentence-fits-all easy coverage?

Are you just trolling now?

By "tons of definitions"... you mean 4? That's less definitions than the word "bark" or "fire". I'm not sure what you think metaphorical means, but maybe you should cross check your language with the dictionary a bit more. If you want we can just use the first definition of Tyranny which is "Oppressive power" and it would fit closely enough, but the third definition fit more closely and should probably be assumed by the context of how I wrote.

[Biomega]

I'm not sure what you think metaphorical means, but maybe you should cross check your language with the dictionary a bit more.

Really you think the train schedules you mentioned are ACTUAL tyrants?

Come on, man. Don't just troll people.

[uuuhname]

I guess asking you to read more than a tweets length post is too much of an imposition, as is asking you to engage in any topic in good faith apparently. I gave you my recommendation, though if I may be so bold as to offer a second... Maybe you should actually read the posts you are responding to instead of cutting it up to find the most triggering out of context parts. Just think of it as advice from your forum elder.

nothing is taken out of context.

I read everything and choose what I want to reply to.

you're just mad I don't give a fuck about your "elder" status when your opinions on this subject are so dramatic and out of touch with reality.

anyway, still no word on why it's totally acceptable to respond to a public health crisis without crying about the ever present hand of tyranny but asking players in a video game to be decent people is just a step too far in the wrong direction for how society is going to end up.

diving back into your other posts I'm in awe of how you really seem to think forcing people to have to deal with shitty people and obliging THEM with the task of making other people better is such a giant red flag (huehue) for anyone who has ever been in an abusive relationship. that's siding WITH the abuser, in case that wasn't obvious enough for you.

basically your entire argument here is to side with abusers and berate the victims who grow enough of a spine to not tolerate it anymore.

[Stickiler]

as I referenced earlier by someone who got a 14 day silence for saying "the government turned the frogs gay" as a joke. We probably won't ever know the actual stats on who got banned for what, or why.

How do you know that's what got them banned?

[Ringthane]

I mean the first amendment is based on a 2500+ year old idea, just bringing up freedom of speech does not mean it necessarily comes to the first US amendment. It's perfectly possible to argue for it from a philosophical and a practical viewpoint.

I've been pretty clear that I think there should probably be some restrictions, but the current implementation goes too far imo. Everyone likes to pretend it's only about direct and continuous harassment, but it's obviously not as I referenced earlier by someone who got a 14 day silence for saying "the government turned the frogs gay" as a joke. We probably won't ever know the actual stats on who got banned for what, or why. The biggest part I dislike about the contract is the lack of transparency and the vagueness of terminology.

It's not my fault if people can't actually operate on that level and insist on building strawmen of the most extreme and obvious cases when I'm arguing on the edges.

- - - Updated - - -



By "tons of definitions"... you mean 4? That's less definitions than the word "bark" or "fire". I'm not sure what you think metaphorical means, but maybe you should cross check your language with the dictionary a bit more. If you want we can just use the first definition of Tyranny which is "Oppressive power" and it would fit closely enough, but the third definition fit more closely and should probably be assumed by the context of how I wrote.

The first amendment relates to free speech against the government. Period. it's not "based" on anything. It's a statement that you can freely speak against your government, and the government cannot retaliate against you. It has nothing to do with private companies or businesses or anything.

[munkeyinorbit]

Exit game, companies that want to control freedom of speech is sick!
Gaming was build on people being able to be or do anything they want in a fake world well guess the wierdo mommy's are now in charge of blizzard (well woke blizzard 2022 what is not the same company anymore)

This might be a surprise to you but Blizzard has been trying to control what you say since the rise of multiplayer games. Where was your "outrage" then?

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I mean I can easily tell you why. I don't see begin aggressive as out of place in a virtual environment about death,killing ,and genocide. I find it more bizzare that people would not just desire but expect that everyone would need be forced to speak kindly to them.

I find an edge lord speed running every racial slur less annoying then the would be hall monitor.

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Again everyone understands that some just don't find a corporations boot all that more tasty then the governments.

A racist not having a problem with other racists? Who would have guessed?

I also would like to know what this "boot" you speak of is supposedly doing? You're the consumer and you're the one with the power. Use your power and move on. Just don't expect people to agree with someone who admits they prefer people to be racist than not.

[DeltrusDisc]

Lmao ok. Bye kid.

Did you not see the /s ?
That meant "sarcasm" - welcome to the internet!

I would like to know... will this contract go so far as to stop me, an Alliance player, from calling a Horde player "Horde filth/scum/dog"?? If so, that's really stupid, considering the NPCs will throw such slurs around. It's all in fun anyways, we call each other names like that because it also spurs on more of the fun PVP type stuff. I know what this contract is mainly aimed at, but I could totally see them using it against that - too.

[munkeyinorbit]

You do not really know what and how freedom of speech works, do you?

I think a more important issue is why it also doesn't apply to massive corporations too. I get that FoS is supposed to protect us from tyranny of the government but there are some corporations out there that have the power of small nations. They have the power to crush people just as well as a government does. I'm not American but I think it's probably a bit dated and needs to be updated.