Texas Elementary School Shooting, as many as 22 dead, including Children

[Ripster42]

It's not ironic, you can't just have this thing happen every week for years on end without anything being done to stop it, and then just point to the other side and say you tried your best. At some point you're going to have to take responsibility for the fact that you are an American and that if you want things to change you need to act. Just whining on a forum is just tiring for everyone else who did act and who doesn't have these issues as a result of it.

You're here telling me I'm a clown, all the while children in your nation get butchered on the weekly and you're just sitting on your ass doing nothing. You are the clown son.

I'll give you your words again and see if you can figure out the problem. Refer to my sig if needed.

YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM! BLOOD IS ON YOUR HANDS!

Blaming others never solved any issue.

[Endus]

Problem is the Supreme Court makes this point moot. I'm all for them getting charged with being accessories but the Supreme Court made it clear that peace officers have no legal duty to protect another or prevent a crime from happening.

That is why I stated earlier in the thread that the most that will come out of it is 1 or 2 people getting fired and a payout from the city to the victims that won't be public.

SCOTUS doesn't change things. SCOTUS sets a national baseline, but States are always free to establish higher requirements and obligations. And we know the Uvalde police had training on mass shootings that required officers to engage and stop the shooter, even if fellow officers were shot, even if they were the lone officer on scene, etc.

[wunksta]

I instructed the nationally-recognized Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training program to provide training to schools across Texas.

This training, which is delivered by veteran first responders, will help officers on campuses better respond to active attack situations.

https://twitter.com/GregAbbott_TX/st...51902064091136

[Edge-]

https://twitter.com/GregAbbott_TX/st...51902064091136

So we're still at, "There's just nothing we can do to prevent mass shootings in schools, so the least we can do is make sure the cops don't stand around for an hour+ the next time."

Man, Republicans just really love them some dead kids.

[wunksta]

So we're still at, "There's just nothing we can do to prevent mass shootings in schools, so the least we can do is make sure the cops don't stand around for an hour+ the next time."

Man, Republicans just really love them some dead kids.

It sounds like the same stuff Uvalde already did for their police force and school safety training.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...plan-rcna30568

[Edge-]

It sounds like the same stuff Uvalde already did for their police force and school safety training.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...plan-rcna30568

Yeah, but if they keep repeating it enough times surely it'll start working eventually, right?

...right?

[uuuhname]

No, people are pointing out, seemingly accurately, that you have a gross misunderstanding of how this country actually works.

and at no point is any effort given to analyze the fact that the system itself allows this to happen.... IDK maybe the system itself is part of the problem, wild thought.

[Breccia]

So let's talk about Matthey McConaughey.

"He's fucked?"

I mean, I assume so, he has kids? Incidentally these kids are about elementary school age, which might have inspired this OP ED which he wrote for this local source.

I'll let you read the full thing, but it's clear that McConaughey is trying to find a balance between the alright alright alright to bear arms¹ and the willingness to use them on random-ass unarmed children. I will say I agree with him about 70%, such as these suggestions below:

I believe:

1) All gun purchases should require a background check.

2) Unless you are in the military, you should be 21 years old to purchase an assault rifle.

"Hey! The AR in AR-15 doesn't stand for Assault Rifle! That's a fictional term that--"

You can take it up with him. I'm just quoting the man. We're not getting into gun specs again.

3) Red Flag Laws should be the law of the land.

4) We need to institute a national waiting period for assault rifles.

That's heavily edited down, of course. But my thoughts:
1) To be fair, neither the Texas nor Tulsa shooting would have failed a background check. And of the...um...I want to say five guns involved, only one was bought from a pawn shop or the like. I think all three rifles did go through background checks. So expanding them would not have solved this problem, but could help with others.
2) I see conflicting reports about the age to own a pistol, a weapon that has minimal use on the battlefield and hunting. I think you need to be 21 to get a carry permit in Texas, but am honestly not sure if there's a nationwide age range. Regardless, I don't inherently see the problem with pistols and (ahem) high-capacity long-barrel semi-automatic firearms, regardless if you're hunting the Viet Cong or feral pigs destroying your crops, having an age range of 21. If you want one sooner, sign up for the military, they'll hand you a weapon that looks eerily similar.

EDIT: Also, for those people concerned about defending their land or other property and between the ages of 18 and 21, might I recommend something bolt-, lever-, or pump-action? I'm willing to believe that most animals and most criminals that encounter an unexpected gunshot will have other things on their mind than counting how many shots you have left. If you really are in an 80s-movies siege situation, which is hyperbole but whatever at this point, let's face it, you're either about to be arrested or just downright fucked.

3) I just talked about red flag laws, and have nothing more to add.
4) This is more and more mandatory by the day. A waiting period would pair nicely with red flag laws. It would have at least delayed, if not stopped, the Tulsa shooting. The Texas shooting, the barely-18-year-old did buy the assault ri*cough* high-capacity long-barrel semi-automatic firearms plural a week before he used them to murder a bunch of children, but that'd be "only" 22 dead not 27.

I honestly can't think of a reason why you'd need an assault ri*cough* high-capacity long-barrel semi-automatic firearm today. They are not toys, don't contain insulin or chemotherapy, and it won't drive you home if you get drunk. Even if you do use a weapon one at-home kit away from being a fully automatic "machine gun" for, I dunno, vaporizing squirrels or other legitimate use, do you need it in under a week? If you feel you're at risk of your life from an intruder or some such, you know who has guns and is good for that? The police. "Hey, this guy is threatening my life." "Well good thing we have nationwide red flag laws! I'll send a couple uniforms over right away to check it out." "Won't they pussy out?" "Goodness no, what do you think this is, a Texas school? Hey you two officers, head to this person's address and for fuck's sake bring your radio. If he's sane and stable, great. If he's dangerous, shoot him 27 times."

I'm sure one or two of you will post an example of a reason why someone might need an AR-15 or other weapon of w*cough*high-capacity long-barrel semi-automatic firearm in under a week. And my pre-emptive response is "Okay fine. There are 20 million of those in the US. How many of those 20 million do you think fit such criteria?" Because I'll bet you'll stretch to hit 5%. Hunting seasons have start and end dates known well in advance. Shotguns loaded with birdshot are better at home defense since they lower the odds of shooting a neighborhood kid through a wall. Target shooting is not a necessity, even if you enjoy it and your best shootin' buddy stopped by unexpectedly. And when the zombies rise against us, all the gun shops will be sold out and then raided anyhow. So leaving aside actual murderers, and maybe bears, I'm legit curious to see why anyone would need such a weapon within a week of realizing they needed one.

Regardless, McConaughey, who has a vested interest in the situation, makes it clear this isn't a choice between "nobody has any guns at all" vs "the Michael Gross scenes from Tremors". It's about the balance between having a right and using it responsibly. He and I might disagree on how much responsibility is being shown here.

I want to be clear. I am not under the illusion that these policies will solve all of our problems, but if responsible solutions can stop some of these tragedies from striking another community without destroying the Second Amendment, they're worth it.

This is not a choice between guns or no guns. It’s the responsible choice. It’s the reasonable choice. It’s a quintessentially American choice: Where I have the right to be me, you have the freedom to be you, and we have the responsibility to be US.

---

¹Too soon? I was on the fence about this.

- - - Updated - - -

(Abbott shitting on a page)

Um, I was under the impression the teachers in question already had training? And that Texas already had a specific govt branch for exactly this? I even wrote a post on it.

That said, it is heartwarming for Gov. Abbott to admit in public the police for that school completely failed. Otherwise, why would they need training?

[wunksta]

Um, I was under the impression the teachers in question already had training? And that Texas already had a specific govt branch for exactly this? I even wrote a post on it.

I guess this is giving first responders (read: school staff) SWAT tactics?

[Breccia]

I guess this is giving first responders (read: school staff) SWAT tactics?

It did say emphasis on school-based law enforcement. Which this school had.

I mean, I guess he could be expanding that school marshalls (school martials?) program I also posted on? The one where, out of 350,000 Texas teachers 256 signed up? Pretty sure there wasn't one in Uvadle, so Abbott might think deputizing another few thousand might help.

Look at this point I'm willing to admit, I think Abbott has cleared the "I was lied to and I'm angry about that" stage and is back into full-on defense of weapons of war in the hands of the average American. The school had police. They didn't engage. What's training going do to?

Also, I'm tired of not asking this.
@Rozz and @Flarelaine could one of you change the death count in the thread title please?

[wunksta]

It did say emphasis on school-based law enforcement. Which this school had.

I mean, I guess he could be expanding that school marshalls (school martials?) program I also posted on? The one where, out of 350,000 Texas teachers 256 signed up? Pretty sure there wasn't one in Uvadle, so Abbott might think deputizing another few thousand might help.

Look at this point I'm willing to admit, I think Abbott has cleared the "I was lied to and I'm angry about that" stage and is back into full-on defense of weapons of war in the hands of the average American. The school had police. They didn't engage. What's training going do to?

Ohio is going to allow staff to carry guns. This will undoubtedly result in making the schools even more unsafe via an accidental shooting, stolen guns and/or a teacher shooting an unarmed student they thought was 'aggressive'.

[Linkedblade]

Man, Republicans just really love them some dead kids.

That's exactly what the Republicans say about Democrats with abortion, and right now pushing for war in Ukraine.

[Edge-]

That's exactly what the Republicans say about Democrats with abortion, and right now pushing for war in Ukraine.

Except that we have actual kids dying. And what the hell is the second thing about given that literally nobody is pushing for war, and hilariously the far-left is largely in agreement with the far-right that "Ukraine should just give up" lol

[uuuhname]

That's exactly what the Republicans say about Democrats with abortion, and right now pushing for war in Ukraine.

okay, so the key difference here to you anyway is simply the length of time until it's acceptable to have kids die. which, I mean we all assumed it was as soon as the kid pops out but glad we narrowed it down to 10-12 yeas of age.

- - - Updated - - -

Except that we have actual kids dying. And what the hell is the second thing about given that literally nobody is pushing for war, and hilariously the far-left is largely in agreement with the far-right that "Ukraine should just give up" lol

the only people "on the left" doing that are tankies and neolibs.

[Endus]

That's exactly what the Republicans say about Democrats with abortion, and right now pushing for war in Ukraine.

Except those Republicans are lying, both on the facts regarding fetal personhood and whether they actually believe it to be true (they don't), and on the principle that fetal personhood is even relevant to the discussion of abortion rights.

Cause it isn't. Totally irrelevant distraction, since they can't make their case on the relevant facts.

the only people "on the left" doing that are tankies and neolibs.

I'd dispute that neoliberals are in any respect "on the left", other than in the USA's twistedly inaccurate Overton window.

[P for Pancetta]

When the "other side" literally refuses to do anything, yes you god-damned can.

You can and you do, yet it helps nobody. It's just meaningless posturing.

This completely ignores the political structure and makeup of the American government, and the outsized influence many small, conservative states play

This ignores nothing, you can do a lot more then just vote. You're just sticking your head in the sand because you're too lazy to put in the effort to (try) to make a difference.

Many of us have. We help elect folks who want to get things done on this front, but we can't elect folks from other states.

It's clearly not enough, that's my point. You have been having this issue for decades now. Just voting doesn't work. And secondly by saying WE you imply you did anything. the truth is that most posters here don't do anything but vote (if even). It's dishonest and cowardly to group yourself with people that do try, while just sitting on your ass giving your prayers.

No, people are pointing out, seemingly accurately, that you have a gross misunderstanding of how this country actually works.

My understanding of the US is fine thank you, you can keep saying these innate bullshit but that doesn't change the fact that neither the democrats nor the republicans have done anything to significantly reduce the mass shooter problem in the past two decades.

[uuuhname]

I'd dispute that neoliberals are in any respect "on the left", other than in the USA's twistedly inaccurate Overton window.

mmmm I think a few of our European posters fit that bill quite well.

[Edge-]

You can and you do, yet it helps nobody. It's just meaningless posturing.

Lay it out for us, fam. Give us the roadmap.

This ignores nothing, you can do a lot more then just vote. You're just sticking your head in the sand because you're too lazy to put in the effort to (try) to make a difference.

Such as? Give us the roadmap, you keep talking about all these things that can be done but never specify any of them.

It's clearly not enough, that's my point. You have been having this issue for decades now. Just voting doesn't work.

Still waiting on those alternatives, fam.

My understanding of the US is fine thank you, you can keep saying these innate bullshit but that doesn't change the fact that neither the democrats nor the republicans have done anything to significantly reduce the mass shooter problem in the past two decades.

Nice timeline that conveniently starts just after the assault weapons ban ended. Yes, America is often held hostage by the tyranny of the minority on many issues - very much by design.

Welcome to America, where getting anything done is frustratingly difficult and a monumental undertaking that can often be stopped by just one person in Congress.

[P for Pancetta]

I'll give you your words again and see if you can figure out the problem. Refer to my sig if needed.

You're the one pointing at republicans. and what I said still stands, you are part of the problem if all you do is vote and whine on the internet.

[Breccia]

Uvadle's US Rep is a Republican who has not been having a great time of this, but can't change anything locally.

In the Texas House, they're represented by Tracy King, who near as I can tell is a Democrat. Problem is, he's outnumbered. The Texas House is split 84 to 65.

Which means, for the time being, no changes will come to Texas about gun safety in any way, unless the Republicans, the ones in charge, choose to. They won't. Blaming them is 100% accurate.

In the meantime, I'm hopeful that Texas remembers this and the other mass shootings due to take place on July 17th and Sept 23rd in a church and a company picnic, when they vote this election year. Will Texas flip blue because of this? No, not this year. Add some more blackouts and unemployment due to border crackdowns blocking trade and we have "maybe". Until then, it's Americans' duty to protest and vote, but not to, say, storm the Texas House trying to lynch Pence.