Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Elim Garak]

Then you're just nit-picking yourself with your history statement?

What?

You're the one who put out the timeline and influence of F2P. I'm saying it's fucking stupid to make the assertion you did that we have games we love today because of the money from the things you brought up.

Sure, to show how free to play was born, and was used as money generator.

It's quite obvious that the gaming industry expanded with global access to portable computers, internet penetration and free to play games.

Because free to play games that can be played with friends attracted MORE people, than retail games that you had to go to the store and pay for it.

Which inevitably brings us to the topic of piracy.

Something the shareware were trying to fight as well.

People always tend to look only at one side of the issue. Completely overlooking the interconnectedness of things.

Mobile F2P games were also a way to fight piracy. Why make an AAA game for 5 years and then have it cracked and on torrent on day one? Let's just make simple mobile game, let players play for free - and monetize them in some other way.

"hey wait a minute, we made bank with f2p games and have money to do Mass Effect, a completely new franchise without being afraid of the risk of tanking in sales"

[MoanaLisa]

You did make that argument. Also in no way shape or form did Blizzard popularize loot boxes with Overwatch. They were already popular and already around. It is highly strange how many people think Blizzard is responsible for different things and how sheltered people are do the industry as a whole. It also ignores how Hearthstone, which came out before Overwatch, has loot boxes.

The one thing this thread has brought out is how ignorant many people are about how mobile games generally work.

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no, I made a point that in the past you could buy a game once and that was the end of it, which is preferable to *gestures* this video game which we are talking about.


okay, you can pretend that loot boxes didn't explode after Overwatch came out, you can keep your head stuck in the sand on that. it's not that important to the overall point I'm making but of course on these forums every throw away sentence has to be analyzed all while ignoring the point that's being made because otherwise the forum pedants wouldn't actually have anything to contribute to the conversation.

Incorrect statements framed as facts supporting an opinion should be challenged. Otherwise don't claim stuff as factual when you don't know.

[uuuhname]

What's to challenge? It's an opinion. You think microtransactions in games are bad. OK.

I play some mobile games where people enjoy dropping a bit of money to improve their game situation. It makes them happy. That's fine too. You don't have to like it or them but quite honestly what someone else does in a game is none of your damn business. None of my business either.

none of you have done the leg work to prove that opinion is wrong. I have presented examples of other predatory business practices being smacked down, to which I ask why doesn't that apply to obvious gambling in video games, and I'm met with silence for some odd reason.

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Incorrect statements framed as facts supporting an opinion should be challenged. Otherwise don't claim stuff as factual when you don't know.

okay, don't care, it really isn't a tent pole in the argument I'm making but ya'll really have to be the winners over every tiny thing that gets brought up.

[Elim Garak]

none of you have done the leg work to prove that opinion is wrong.

It's on you to prove your opinion right. And the predatoriness of the business practices. You can't just throw in the adjectives and DIXI QET

[rhorle]

no, I made a point that in the past you could buy a game once and that was the end of it, which is preferable to *gestures* this video game which we are talking about.

You mean the video game that you can play 100% for free with no pay wall blocking progression? Your stance of not getting the full game does not apply to Diablo Immortal. So either way you are wrong.

Loot boxes didn't explode because Overwatch came out. They were growing in popularity because of Fifa and mobile/social-media games and the industry as a whole started to embrace them around 2016. If Blizzard is responsible for popularizing them then wouldn't Hearthstone their first title with loot boxes be the start? I didn't ignore your point at all as I provided a link to wikipedia that showed Blizzard didn't pioneer anything about the loot box. Proving you wrong means I didn't ignore it. Lmao.

[uuuhname]

It's on you to prove your opinion right. And the predatoriness of the business practices. You can't just throw in the adjectives and DIXI QET

I mentioned why fruit flavored cigarettes' are illegal and how that pertains to gambling mechanics being in mobile games. again, this company has refused to release the game in counties that have laws on the books that ban gambling in video games and apparently that detail always seems to vanish from your minds, FOR SOME ODD REASON.

[BeepBoo]

"hey wait a minute, we made bank with f2p games and have money to do Mass Effect, a completely new franchise without being afraid of the risk of tanking in sales"

You simply cannot know what the future would have been or how it would have been influenced in the absence of what we have is my point. You're acting like we would have stayed in 2000 forever, and that's clearly not the case.

[Takure]

Using psychological hacks to farm money from unsuspecting people is morally and ethically wrong.

People trying to defend Blizzard and other studios for using these predatory tactics should be ashamed.

[RobertoCarlos]

Using psychological hacks to farm money from unsuspecting people is morally and ethically wrong.

People trying to defend Blizzard and other studios for using these predatory tactics should be ashamed.

Free to play, don't play it etc Is about all they can muster while the industry slowly turns to custard

[Darkeon]

The one thing this thread has brought out is how ignorant many people are about how mobile games generally work.

Do you believe these grow naturally out in the world and theres nothing we can do to change how these are made? Fucking hilarious.

[shadowmatrix]

Do you believe these grow naturally out in the world and theres nothing we can do to change how these are made? Fucking hilarious.

Your not changing anything while staring at only one game, you have to look at the business model as a whole and find a good place to start. There aren't enough Disneys to force them all to change.

[uuuhname]

You mean the video game that you can play 100% for free with no pay wall blocking progression? Your stance of not getting the full game does not apply to Diablo Immortal. So either way you are wrong.

you know what's cute?

that snide little comment Mona Lisa made about how this topic highlights how people don't understand how mobile gaming works.

you know who else doesn't understand how mobile gaming works? children.

children who we don't allow to smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol, or gamble. but suddenly! suddenly, when you put one of those things into a video game designed to milk you for all of your money, all moral or ethical quandaries just melt away, FOR SOME ODD REASON.

[MoanaLisa]

Do you believe these grow naturally out in the world and theres nothing we can do to change how these are made? Fucking hilarious.

Find a better revenue model that supports the current level of profits in the mobile game industry specifically and all video games generally. Laugh all you like but if you want change someone has to figure out what to change to. Meanwhile your hilarity is irrelevant since no, there's little anyone can do to change how these are made.

Remember, F2P with this revenue model has proven so far to be the most profitable way to publish games over the last few years. Suggest something better that doesn't look like you're asking for charity from for-profit businesses.

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you know what's cute?

that snide little comment Mona Lisa made about how this topic highlights how people don't understand how mobile gaming works?

Dude, I'm not the one claiming that Blizzard invented all of this and loot boxes. I'm also not the one expressing outrage because Blizzard has never done this before. Hearthstone and Overwatch would disagree with that.

EDIT: To be clear: I'm the one saying that Blizzard was never your friend and that Blizzard has always done what they see as best for Blizzard.

[Tooshie]

How are people defending this? Is it even possible to have that bad case of Stockholm syndrome?

Get help, like now.

[rhorle]

children who we don't allow to smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol, or gamble. but suddenly! suddenly, when you put one of those things into a video game designed to milk you for all of your money, all moral or ethical quandaries just melt away, FOR SOME ODD REASON.

But they are allowed to buy Pokemon card packs, blind bags, etc that all exhibit gambling and things to milk money. Stop trying to prop up your argument by talking about children when even countries that ban loot boxes don't actually stop those ethical or moral quandaries towards children. Those countries don't stop games from doing those things when no money is involved. So they are perfectly fine with the kids being hooked on the concepts.

Also the legal age to drink alcohol varies around the world. The age of majority also varies around the world. It also ignores that video games are not just for kids. So you really are moving the goal posts to entirely different arguments that don't exist the way you think they do.

[uuuhname]

Dude, I'm not the one claiming that Blizzard invented all of this and loot boxes. I'm also not the one expressing outrage because Blizzard has never done this before. Hearthstone and Overwatch would disagree with that.

and again it's such a tiny part of the point I'm making the fact you focus on that and that alone is sus. you're not addressing the point that allowing kids to gamble isn't a great idea.

[Vasilisa]

Find a better revenue model that supports the current level of profits in the mobile game industry specifically and all video games generally. Laugh all you like but if you want change someone has to figure out what to change to. Meanwhile your hilarity is irrelevant since no, there's little anyone can do to change how these are made.

Remember, F2P with this revenue model has proven so far to be the most profitable way to publish games over the last few years. Suggest something better that doesn't look like you're asking for charity from for-profit businesses.

I've pointed out at GGG model at least two times during this discussion. Their model is not predatory, there is no power gains attached to shop items. People don't feel that they have to buy things in order to compete (Poe has challenge ladders as well). Ethics is what differs Blizzard from GGG.

[Ghost of Cow]

children who we don't allow to smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol, or gamble. but suddenly! suddenly, when you put one of those things into a video game designed to milk you for all of your money, all moral or ethical quandaries just melt away, FOR SOME ODD REASON.

Christ, always with the children. Don't have an argument? Bring up children.

Besides, we don't allow children to gamble. Talk to their parents if they've got access to a credit card and are stocking up on OverWatch loot boxes or Hearthstone packs.

[uuuhname]

Don't have an argument?

do you have an argument? or are you hoping Bobby Kottick see's your posts?


@monalisa I assume you agree that kids should not be allowed to gamble. any and all comments not related to that can be kept private.

[Ghost of Cow]

do you have an argument? or are you hoping Bobby Kottick see's your posts?

I don't give Bobby any money, though. Because somehow I manage to be a mature adult who can make decisions.

That seems to be difficult for all the "completionists" and such to come to grips with, though.