Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[MoanaLisa]

My childs can’t milk any money from me because - surprise - no credit card is associated to their phones or tablets or pcs or consoles or ANYTHING. They have to ask me or my wife whenever they wanna buy stuff being it physical or virtual.

The best way to spread disinformation is to take the worst possible case—which likely won't even affect one person in a hundred—and make it a norm. That's why there are people talking about kids as if a plague affecting millions is in the offing when there will be few cases of this and likely irresponsible parenting more to blame than Blizzard. A few months from now the game will very likely be seen as a shot in the arm for Blizzard's engagement metrics and bottom line and people will have moved on to whatever the next outrage is. Just like they did with card packs in Hearthstone and loot boxes in Overwatch.

[chiddie]

Because we can't have an opinion on a diablo game with new lore we might be interested in playing, unless we also shit on every other P2W mobile game. And the only way we can be upset about a diablo game having P2W is if we've never seen a P2W game before?

Blizzard has been doing some really stupid things with this game, and I criticise them for those things specifically. But it's not like they can do no right in our eyes, if we didn't think they could do better, we all would have moved on by now.

What I don't get is the people who don't play the game or have any interest in it, arguing points about the game and its monetization to people who have and do play it. Haven't heard much of a defense for the level of monetization beyond "you don't have to pay it". Like being in a PvP match with someone who did doesn't affect someones enjoyment of the game.

Yep, sheltered viewpoint, never played anything else;
https://steamcommunity.com/id/ToGJerot/games/?tab=all

Didn't like the P2W in Maplestory, STO, Blacklight retribution, APB reloaded, Payday 2, etc. And they aren't even mobile games, didn't have nearly as much effect on free playing players, or expect people to pay thousands for basic character progression.

But you don’t have to pay thousands for basic char progression.

Go search YT for Wudijo (one of the best if not the best D3 player in EU), he’s playing DI totally f2p and he’s doing quite amazing atm.

I still suspect that 99% of complainers here haven’t even reached mid campaign. I’m 37 and I visit the shop once a day for the free chest and nothing more.

[Jerot]

But most of the good builds, at least as far as theorycrafting shows, do not use 6 5 star legendary gems. They use 2 or maybe three. Maxing out a 1star or 2star gem is not nearly as expensive. I think I'll be happy once I've done everything the game has to offer in Hell and maybe reached a high rank among the Shadows.

And I will say this, Diablo Immortal has a better story than D3.

Only 2-3 5-Star gems? Quin is almost $10k deep running $25 rifts until he gets one, and he still hasn't.

My earlier calculations were obviously way too generous, and even so they still pointed to 1 year of daily playing or 230USD to max a single 1-star gem. So you can earn the privilege of paying 1,000 eternal orbs to awaken your first legendary.

It shouldn't be hard to be semi-decent rank if you play regularly, they shard everyone off into different servers to give you the illusion of being competitive. Unless you got unlucky and are on a whale heavy server. Then your only option is to reroll and start from scratch.

New whales don't want to face off against old whales. So they continue to open new servers and merge old ones, they've already added more since launch. Pretty common tactic in P2W mobile MMOs. You see games with servers numbered up to six or seven hundred. Less obvious when they use rotating name lists though.

[kamuimac]

Most people won't seek help and will instead ruin their lives. This is why casinos are heavily regulated, at least in EU.
F2P games should have been regulated YEARS ago. I've been saying for years that mobile gaming is shit and needs regulation.
I'm not defending Diablo Immortal, but its cash shop is nothing compared to what's out there.

most people wont spend even a single cent on that game starting with - they will play it for couple of hours and be bored and done.

thats what i did - leveld necromancer to 60 folled around on other classes to 20 and im already bored and done with it

didnt spend a single cent - had really a lot of fun

and yes its very very good mobile phones game.

- - - Updated - - -

It is really scary and sad that people are willing to volonturely defend these changes in game industry.
5 years ago i thought loot boxes, skins and cards in games like Fifa is the peak of companies greed...
Oh boy... i was so wrong.

well thats because you have so many old gamers now with way to much disposable $$$ who dont mind blowing it on cyber goodies the same way some people spend money on cigarets / alcohol / drugs etc.

[Nymrohd]

Only 2-3 5-Star gems? Quin is almost $10k deep running $25 rifts until he gets one, and he still hasn't.

The game guarantees a 5 star gem every 50 legendary crests. If he just got the dungeon bundles and the three boons, which would be much less than 1k, he would already have 50 legendary crests. So maybe Quin is not particularly intelligent in how he invests his money. If he is paying anything and it's not all paid by BLizzard.

[Elim Garak]

Only 2-3 5-Star gems? Quin is almost $10k deep running $25 rifts until he gets one, and he still hasn't.

Which is the proof that the game is not pay to win. Because he paid and didn't win.

[Nymrohd]

Which is the proof that the game is not pay to win. Because he paid and didn't win.

actually lol'd

[Kumorii]

Only 2-3 5-Star gems? Quin is almost $10k deep running $25 rifts until he gets one, and he still hasn't.

My earlier calculations were obviously way too generous, and even so they still pointed to 1 year of daily playing or 230USD to max a single 1-star gem. So you can earn the privilege of paying 1,000 eternal orbs to awaken your first legendary.

It shouldn't be hard to be semi-decent rank if you play regularly, they shard everyone off into different servers to give you the illusion of being competitive. Unless you got unlucky and are on a whale heavy server. Then your only option is to reroll and start from scratch.

New whales don't want to face off against old whales. So they continue to open new servers and merge old ones, they've already added more since launch. Pretty common tactic in P2W mobile MMOs. You see games with servers numbered up to six or seven hundred. Less obvious when they use rotating name lists though.

And people wonder why these games with this kind of monetisation keeps propping up.
It's huge among streamers and this entire culture of watching people spend huge amounts of money on a game like this helps encourage it.

I think a big way to remove this incentive is to stop watching someone who spends this much in the shop for views... I would say that most whales are funded by viewers / players who themselves might hate the shop, which is kind of ironic tbh.

Genshin impact have the same, Lost ark have the same.
These games also have their own economy where gamers earn money by spending it wisely, which in turn encourage more spending. The entire gold trading in Lost Ark is an example of that. Pretty sure there are boosters in DI who planned on getting return of investment for the stuff they bought etc etc.

[Jerot]

Which is the proof that the game is not pay to win. Because he paid and didn't win.

Oh he is winning, he's years ahead of any free player. Just not even a fraction of how powerful he could be if he paid more.

This game isn't for $10,000 peasants, its for $100,000 mega gamers.

But you don’t have to pay thousands for basic char progression.

Go search YT for Wudijo (one of the best if not the best D3 player in EU), he’s playing DI totally f2p and he’s doing quite amazing atm.

Sounds like as time goes on he's doing worse and worse and if nothing changes the game will probably die. Despite having a decent campaign experience and story.

https://youtu.be/rgSj80xXx4M

[Nymrohd]

I think a big way to remove this incentive is to stop watching someone who spends this much in the shop for views... I would say that most whales are funded by viewers / players who themselves might hate the shop, which is kind of ironic tbh.

And the best part is how they keep tipping them so they can spend those tips on the ship.

[Elim Garak]

I would say that most whales are funded by viewers / players who themselves might hate the shop, which is kind of ironic tbh.

That's true for everything in this world. Everything can be exploited. Even the hate can be exploited to promote the very thing being hated.

Just live and let live, people. Don't join "hate-hype" groups if you don't want to be exploited.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh he is winning, he's years ahead of any free player. Just not even a fraction of how powerful he could be if he paid more.

Oh really? You are the master napkin mathematician here. Please enlighten us how much money would it take to 100% guarantee that he will win. And I mean jsut the money to spend in the game's shop. Obviously Elon Musk can just buy out the entire game (or Blizzard itself) and change his character to be god in it.

[chiddie]

Oh he is winning, he's years ahead of any free player. Just not even a fraction of how powerful he could be if he paid more.




Sounds like as time goes on he's doing worse and worse and if nothing changes the game will probably die. Despite having a decent campaign experience and story.

https://youtu.be/rgSj80xXx4M

It all depends on your goal. If you wanna top the lbds (especially PvP) it will probably be 100% NOT doable unless you pay.

The average joe (hello, that’s me) can however have his chunks of fun without spending a penny (or just with the 5 buck empowered battle pass).

[Jerot]

The game guarantees a 5 star gem every 50 legendary crests. If he just got the dungeon bundles and the three boons, which would be much less than 1k, he would already have 50 legendary crests. So maybe Quin is not particularly intelligent in how he invests his money. If he is paying anything and it's not all paid by BLizzard.

1 star gems are always 1 star, 2 star gems are always 2 star.

A 5 star gem drop can drop as a 2-5 star gem, you are never guaranteed 5 stars. The only way to get 5-star gems is with crests. The pity system could give you a 2, 3 or 4 star version of a 5 star gem.

[Kumorii]

That's true for everything in this world. Everything can be exploited. Even the hate can be exploited to promote the very thing being hated.

Just live and let live, people. Don't join "hate-hype" groups if you don't want to be exploited.

It absolutely is. Just pointing out the hypocrisy that people are so vehemently against something and then in the same breath supports it... if you are against something, don't encourage it. Which is more effective than being loud about being against it. Which is all these threads are in essence. A soapbox.

As an example, if you are against the shop, don't watch Quin, unsub and don't give him more money to support the shop.
I'm sure he will change quickly when he realise he can't earn money from doing so. Which in turn makes a huge impact on the game itself when enough streamers and player do this. But yeah, some are thinking Quin is EXPOSING the shop, which is absurd.

[Elim Garak]

It absolutely is. Just pointing out the hypocrisy that people are so vehemently against something and then in the same breath supports it... if you are against something, don't encourage it. Which is more effective than being loud about being against it. Which is all these threads are in essence. A soapbox.

As an example, if you are against the shop, don't watch Quin, unsub and don't give him more money to support the shop.
I'm sure he will change quickly when he realise he can't earn money from doing so. Which in turn makes a huge impact on the game itself when enough streamers and player do this. But yeah, some are thinking Quin is EXPOSING the shop, which is absurd.

Another example, I didn't plan to play Diablo Immortal, but after all this hate I installed it on my phone and it's a good game lol )

[Kumorii]

Another example, I didn't plan to play Diablo Immortal, but after all this hate I installed it on my phone and it's a good game lol )

Yeah, the game is good. I enjoy it too. Think I'll lose interest at max level though. Because it feels like it will be just like lost ark. Where you can't progress easily without paying. But for now it's cool.

I'm also debating if I should show some support because I do think Devs deserve money if I enjoy the game. But at the same time I don't want to support the shop. So now I'm torn if spending like 20 bucks once means I support the shop or I support the game. Not really sure how that'll be seen tbh.

[Elim Garak]

Yeah, the game is good. I enjoy it too. Think I'll lose interest at max level though. Because it feels like it will be just like lost ark. Where you can't progress easily without paying. But for now it's cool.

I'm also debating if I should show some support because I do think Devs deserve money if I enjoy the game. But at the same time I don't want to support the shop. So now I'm torn if spending like 20 bucks once means I support the shop or I support the game. Not really sure how that'll be seen tbh.

Think of it this way - a free game cannot get support any other way than thu the shop. That's why there is the shop in the first place. So it all boils down - whether you want to support the game. It's your money, your decision. Another point - after you pay in the game - you become a relevant customer to the devs. Your feedback (and metrics) will have weight (proportionally to the amount paid obviously - p2w is everywhere lol)

[chiddie]

most people wont spend even a single cent on that game starting with - they will play it for couple of hours and be bored and done.

thats what i did - leveld necromancer to 60 folled around on other classes to 20 and im already bored and done with it

didnt spend a single cent - had really a lot of fun

and yes its very very good mobile phones game.

- - - Updated - - -



well thats because you have so many old gamers now with way to much disposable $$$ who dont mind blowing it on cyber goodies the same way some people spend money on cigarets / alcohol / drugs etc.

Also add that nerding on a videogame 4+ hours a day is considered legit and healthy while paying every now and then to skip part of the nerding is considered non legit and unhealthy.

[Nymrohd]

Yeah, the game is good. I enjoy it too. Think I'll lose interest at max level though. Because it feels like it will be just like lost ark. Where you can't progress easily without paying. But for now it's cool.

I'm also debating if I should show some support because I do think Devs deserve money if I enjoy the game. But at the same time I don't want to support the shop. So now I'm torn if spending like 20 bucks once means I support the shop or I support the game. Not really sure how that'll be seen tbh.

You can always buy the cheapest version of the battle pass. It's like a reasonable sub and it gives a little bit of everything.

[Jerot]

Another example, I didn't plan to play Diablo Immortal, but after all this hate I installed it on my phone and it's a good game lol )

Most people are in agreement the core experience is pretty good for a mobile game.

The issue was always the monetization because of how it disrupts balance and makes the power scaling so money dependent that there is no reason to play it any way other than casually.
You just hit a progression wall where the only meaningful upgrade is legendary gems, and your free access amounts to a limited demo of a paid feature. PvP/in-world interactions will become less enjoyable the longer your server exists, as P2W players get further and further ahead.

Also add that nerding on a videogame 4+ hours a day is considered legit and healthy while paying every now and then to skip part of the nerding is considered non legit and unhealthy.

Because one is a game that makes people want to spend 4+ hours playing it, and the other is a game that makes people want to pay to not play it.

It's like if a movie released as a 20 hour unedited cut full of junk and advertisements and you had to pay extra to get the 1h 30m "actual movie" edition. Instead of charging for behind the scenes, director commentary, collectibles, or an extended cut.