Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Mysterymask]

And if we do not raise a stink about it, thas is how it will continue and become more egregious. As consumers we deserve better than being considered nothing by wallets, especially when it comes to beloved IP's.

When the game gets 300% of the profits of the last 2 with less than 10% of the audience you guys aren't gonna even make a dent

[Elim Garak]

And if we do not raise a stink about it, thas is how it will continue and become more egregious. As consumers we deserve better than being considered nothing by wallets, especially when it comes to beloved IP's.

You were stinking the same points for 10 years now. Time to adjust your strategy. Because repeating the same thing with the same result over and over expecting a different result - is insanity.

[chiddie]

The Chinese developers certainly won't. I doubt if Wyatt Cheng will either since everyone has made up their mind about him since he was sent out three and a half years ago to try and sell D:I instead of announcing D4. Wyatt is a nice guy, gives good interviews loaded with information on occasion but is not and never was a presenter and shouldn't have been sent out. Between them and the staff in Anaheim they have brought in a decent game. It's fun to play and at least on my tablet the controls are sensitive and accurate.

My tolerance for ad screens is long since set since I've been playing mobile games for years. They are something to dismiss with a wave of the finger and as cataclysmic events that trigger off nerd rage they fail terribly. If Blizzard feels they are too intrusive they'll make some adjustments and move them to a sale screen as you enter the game or some such. I play a zombie apocalypse base-builder (weirdly mixed with a match-3 mini-game, but it works) that has an aggressive MTX scheme but they've put the store up on an icon in the top right hand corner of the screen and it's all there with no intrusions into play and is easy to ignore. Sales are on a splash screen and the rest of it is invisible except for the icon. I'm guessing that eventually Blizzard will do the same. By the way the zombie game is making more money than God and is despite its revenue model is possible to play for free (or mostly free if you want some QOL enhancements). If you get in the habit of 'not paying' to begin with it's pretty simple to carry that on as long as you play across multiple titles. It takes more time to get to where you're going but it has the charm and good design sense to insure that every time I'm in there for 20 minutes I log off and feel like I've accomplished something and moved forward.

Blizzard would do well to insure that happens with D:I to the greatest extent possible.

The main problem is that people in here (and not only in here) are treating the game like a standard PC ARPG with outrageous mtx.

DI target is instead mobile casual players that as you said log in maybe not even every day for 30 minutes max, do something, get some upgrades, are happy, close the APP and gg.

I played probably 10 hours so far (that’s already way more than the average casual considering that the game will hit its first week tomorrow), I’m level 37 and I’m having a lot of fun chilling around doing stuff.

Some people have already grind out everything they could without paying or with little payments and now they are stuck, because they are not the target audience.

I know I will sooner or later get to a point in which I won’t progress if I won’t pay. When that time will come, I will try a new class or I will quit. In any case, I will have had my 40-50 hours of fun for free or with maybe 15-20 bucks of battle passes.

I’m not even remotely interested in PvP in these type of games, I’m smart enough to avoid competition in gear based games of any type, being it gained with money or mindless grinding so for me the game is just fine enough for now.

[Jerot]

I may agree with almost everything you said but my point was another: having more time to spend in videogames is not a skill and also gives “unfair advantages”. I don’t see it THAT different from gaining advantages via mtx, the only difference is that one of the two is free.

I bet that most people are not pissed off by the “predatory system” itself BUT by the fact that past a certain point it’s the only way to progress not at turtle rate.

Suddenly, hardcore grinding 24/7 is not enough anymore. As I said before, DI target are not hardcore grinders.

Maybe part of the uproar is because they took one of the founding franchises of the hardcore grinding ARPG genre and made a game that isn't targeting the hardcore grinders. They advertised a game that was "being made for the fans" when in reality it was being made to milk the fans for $$$.

People are definitely angry about it being predatory. Not only the gambling aspect, but they way systems were obfuscated so people think "This is it? People were exaggerating, maybe I will spend a little" Only to have more systems appear as you progress, hidden caps to stop you from progressing for free, hidden costs requiring exponentially more time and/or money to overcome.

Yes, most will quit at the point where it feels unrewarding to play for free, that isn't the point, there are people who will be fooled into spending way too much money on the game and end up regretting it. Because it was designed that way.

Time can be unfair in some circumstances, but that's why games like Diablo had seasons. All games take time to play. If you can't keep up with your schedule, there are plenty of other games that operate on different time scales.

Treating money as if its interchangeable with time creates unhealthy dynamics for developers. It becomes profitable to stretch out a game unreasonably, or to create systems that make players want to pay to boost or skip them. Instead of creating new value for the player with expansions or cosmetics, you are reducing the functionality of systems to make a profit. Competitive games degrade into boring wallet VS wallet, it's no longer about the gameplay, but how much you pay.

If time and skill are the only metrics by which players are measured, its more profitable for the company to create a healthy environment that supports a wide variety of playstyles. If they inflate the grind too much to try to keep people playing, people will quit when they feel they aren't being sufficiently rewarded/entertained for their time. It becomes profitable to make sure the game remains balanced and fun, adding new content to keep it fresh, so people keep coming back and wanting to spend more.

Games are entertainment, you should want to spend your time indulging in them. There is nothing inherently valuable about the things we can pay for in diablo immortal, it isn't content, it's power they've removed from normal means of progression to sell back at a premium. There is no reason things should cost anywhere near as much as they do, other than to exploit a small group of vulnerable players.

Do you know how mobile games work? A very small percentage funds the game for LITERALLY everyone else.

That's how all free to play games work, yes. It doesn't excuse how they are choosing to raise those funds. Not every F2P game is P2W, and not every P2W game has systems as diabolical as Diablo Immoral.

you retards are acting like if you hit install your bank account gets funneled to blizzard.
Jesus christ you are delusional.

How though?

I'd argue defending a game charging six figures for a CHANCE at one armor set is pretty delusional. No idea why you're so heated over it. If you enjoy playing for free, good for you, if you can ignore the monetization, you can ignore our opinions about it too.

The thing about Genshin is that getting "stuff" for your characters (The artifacts and talents) isn't that bad. It's getting the characters and weapons themselves that costs the money. That would be the analogy to what you're spending on in D:I.

Yeah, I've watched a friend drop a couple thousand on a banner to get a specific upgraded character and weapon. It's bad, still nowhere near as bad. You could still max out a character F2P, it just probably won't be the one you want. Regardless, one existing does not excuse the other, they are both predatory.

[Stornholio]

When the game gets 300% of the profits of the last 2 with less than 10% of the audience you guys aren't gonna even make a dent

That's why mobile "gamers" and whales are a problem for the gaming sector as a whole - at least seen from the customer perspective. Their negative habits impact proper games. THEY are the problem, why the industry gets away with this kind of BS. I really hope for some form of legislation regarding RNG tied to RMTs asap.

[Elim Garak]

That's why mobile "gamers" and whales are a problem for the gaming sector as a whole - at least seen from the customer perspective. Their negative habits impact proper games. THEY are the problem, why the industry gets away with this kind of BS. I really hope for some form of legislation regarding RNG tied to RMTs asap.

Ah, yes, the gamers are the problem for the gamers. So we need government to get involved to punish the wrong gamers.
Great idea.

[deenman]

Labeling as dogs whoever is finding the game fun to play because they are casual and they have enough neurons to not spend a penny is quite sad.

nice strawman,i didnt say anything about people who think the game is fun,im talking about the abuse victims that defend their predatory monetization,nice try bobby

[Jerot]

Ah, yes, the gamers are the problem for the gamers. So we need government to get involved to punish the wrong gamers.
Great idea.

Punishing gamers by stopping companies from charging them hundreds of thousands of dollars for a "4" at the beginning of a stat line instead of a "1", oh the humanity, how will they survive.

Honestly thought, I don't think legislation should be the first option either. Unless someone can come up with a foolproof outline that doesn't harm other aspects of the industry, government officials aren't known to be the brightest in this field.

Unchecked greed has been harmful to the gaming industry before though, look at the crash that happened in the 1980s.

[swdan]

Blizzard literally used every disgusting tactic on the notebook for dummies.

Multiple currencies ingame
Prices not aligning with the stuff you need
Mandatory to login everyday, otherwise you LOSE stuff you ALREADY bought
Lootboxes (hidden in the form of dungeons)
PvP not balanced

Bruh...They literally bought a book and used every tactic on it...or hired someone...

dunno how thay missed some more stuff that are in every asian game. like enchant transfer for real money, res stones, paid gem extraction, unlimited raids for real money, drop and exp boosters, mandatory pets and mounts for 30-60usd\pcs, random probability enchants

still, playing atm for free and having fun. will never touch ladder or pvp - its cringe and pointless anyway. always is

[Mysterymask]

That's why mobile "gamers" and whales are a problem for the gaming sector as a whole - at least seen from the customer perspective. Their negative habits impact proper games. THEY are the problem, why the industry gets away with this kind of BS. I really hope for some form of legislation regarding RNG tied to RMTs asap.

I mean your mad at people with a disposable income disposing their income....I'm sure if you write your congressman about how Diablo Immortal is killing you're hobby he'll instantly put in legislation to add funds for ICE cause he will think Diablo is a Mexican drug dealer

[Elim Garak]

Punishing gamers by stopping companies from charging them hundreds of thousands of dollars for a "4" at the beginning of a stat line instead of a "1", oh the humanity, how will they survive.

Honestly thought, I don't think legislation should be the first option either. Unless someone can come up with a foolproof outline that doesn't harm other aspects of the industry, government officials aren't known to be the brightest in this field.

Unchecked greed has been harmful to the gaming industry before, look at the crash that happened in the 1980s.

Nice narrative. It's like these gamers who spend money on f2p games are the victims of evil corporations and something needs to be done, right?

Jack Thompson should be proud.

[Chucknourishlol]

Ah, yes, the gamers are the problem for the gamers. So we need government to get involved to punish the wrong gamers.
Great idea.

Signature - All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

Ok bro we get, you're an incel, just write that in your signature.

This guy lol, defends P2W garbage, sorry I think he called it Pay to Arrive LOL. He's saved up his money so he can pay 2 arrive in diablo immoral and DESTROY NOOBS in PvP.

Imagine defending a game which is a glorified slot machine on your phone which targets younger players with predatory mechanics that trick the user into spending loads of money not just for better gear but for a CHANCE of potentially upgrading some gear. Everything in the game is made to lure users into the shop and spend money on packs with a perceived extra value, spend more - get more!

In a few weeks or less, they will add the next tier of gear for the whales to "earn" which will influence everyone below to desire it. What would you do, if you knew the system would take you weeks of logging in every day just to potentially earn it without paying. Or would you start paying now and potentially get it before that?

Not sure why I even reply to this chud because clearly he is incapable of changing his mind on something. I mean he's crying about vaccines and people showing support for Ukraine.


Infracted for flaming.

[Nymrohd]

nice strawman,i didnt say anything about people who think the game is fun,im talking about the abuse victims that defend their predatory monetization,nice try bobby

Who did that in this thread? You are the one arguing against strawmen. All I'm seeing is one libertarian who hasn't played the game yet and several casual players who played and enjoyed it. Oh and many people who have not played the game and just hate it on "principle". . .

[Popastique]

Cost of maxing out a character in Genshin impact;
https://youtu.be/OC69z-RyxME

That doesn't seem anywhere near as bad as DI, I know you have multiple characters in your party, but still.

Just as you said - you have multiple characters in your party, and that video only mentions resources, but what about constellations?

Imagine you have a crew of 4 characters ( ideally 8 for abyss purposes but let's forget about that for now ), each character has 6 of them, in case of unlucky draws - you need about 90 draws per 1 constellation. 90 draws = 14 400 primogems x 6 = 86 400 x 4 characters = 345 600 primogems

To get the best price you will buy the 6480 pack which costs 99.99 USD, so you will have to buy around 54 packs = 5 399 usd

Now you do the same math for 5 star weapons ( each character uses them and of course you would like to max them out, which means you need 4 copies of each weapon ), and then you add 4 more characters in order to clear the most difficult content there is.

Doesn't seem anywhere near as bad, huh?

P.S. Point here is - do you need that max power at all? In order to answer that question people will have to clear all the PVE content that DI has to offer and a few events, so in 2-3 months the answer will present itself.

[deenman]

Who did that in this thread? You are the one arguing against strawmen. All I'm seeing is one libertarian who hasn't played the game yet and several casual players who played and enjoyed it. Oh and many people who have not played the game and just hate it on "principle". . .

you seem confused,better to move on

[Big Thanks]

I can live with a pay-to-win Diablo game but...i cant stand watching game devs lie to our faces.

Example:
Senior Game Designer Scott Burgess
He downplayed in a Gamespot interview the pay-to-win aspects of PvP by saying he THRIVED in the beta without paying any money at all
Quote:

“Going back, I played the beta without spending a dollar,” he said in a bid to extinguish the flames. “There were a few of us on the team that did that because we wanted to see what the experience was like.”

According to him, it didn’t hold them back in the slightest.

“I will say that I was in a top Dark House in the Shadows, I kept up with World Paragon, I was competitive in PvP, I would often get the MVP ranking.”

[uopayroll]

As the poster stated above, I'd rather know my price tag from the get-go, whether that's a monthly fee or a one-time payment.
Regarding this game, if you don't like this extreme milking p2w scheme, don't play the game. Don't even download it. Leave it. Otherwise there will be more.

Then set yourself a price tag? If you would have been willing to spend $60 up front, spend that and stop. If you would be willing to pay $15 a month, spend that and stop?

These streamers and whatnot that are spending $10k for a gem drop are just doing it to gain viewers and likes. From the 15 or so minutes I watched, one streamer got enough donations that he spent none of his own money anyhow.

[Popastique]

You do realize that isn't ok right?

You do realize that it is not going to change as long as people play it and buy stuff, right?

[Pratt]

Ok bro we get, you're an incel, just write that in your signature.

This guy lol, defends P2W garbage, sorry I think he called it Pay to Arrive LOL. He's saved up his money so he can pay 2 arrive in diablo immoral and DESTROY NOOBS in PvP.

Imagine defending a game which is a glorified slot machine on your phone which targets younger players with predatory mechanics that trick the user into spending loads of money not just for better gear but for a CHANCE of potentially upgrading some gear. Everything in the game is made to lure users into the shop and spend money on packs with a perceived extra value, spend more - get more!

In a few weeks or less, they will add the next tier of gear for the whales to "earn" which will influence everyone below to desire it. What would you do, if you knew the system would take you weeks of logging in every day just to potentially earn it without paying. Or would you start paying now and potentially get it before that?

Not sure why I even reply to this chud because clearly he is incapable of changing his mind on something. I mean he's crying about vaccines and people showing support for Ukraine.

You guys are essentially arguing with Colin Robinson.

[Elim Garak]

You do realize that it is not going to change as long as people play it and buy stuff, right?

That's why they want government involved. Bitter desperate fun killers.