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  1. #1

    p2w is shit, but whats the alternativ?

    if we look from the companies pov?
    bobby cant buy a yacht with integrity.
    best option i can think of is an increase in pay to play and sub costs.

  2. #2
    Make good games.

  3. #3
    Good games will defend themselves and will make tons of money.

  4. #4
    i really have my doubts that making a good game alone, can compete with the whaling industry.

    edit: what are elden ring bottom line earnings compared to diablo immortal?

  5. #5
    I am Murloc! Asrialol's Avatar
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    I don't mind the p2w aspect. Doesn't hurt me as I don't usually participate in content where that's relevant.

    But cosmetics and convenience is something that's fine I suppose. Pay for more bagspace, teleports, faster traveling, and such. Stuff that doesn't equal powergain.
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  6. #6
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojusk View Post
    i really have my doubts that making a good game alone, can compete with the whaling industry.

    edit: what are elden ring bottom line earnings compared to diablo immortal?
    you can't really compare the two. Elden Ring is a game you pay for and play. Diablo Immortal is a free to play mobile game with microtransactions. they are completely different things, operating in completely different markets. Honestly, I don't understand the massive backlash that Blizz is getting over the microtransactions, especially from Bellular the king of clickbait (actually I do understand why he is stirring the pot); microtransactions have been in mobile games, especially free to play ones, for at least a decade. anyone who genuinely thought that Diablo Immortal, a F2P game on mobile, would somehow buck the trend in that regard is just fucking stupid as fucking fuck and more naïve than an 18 year old nun. Jesus Christ...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by mojusk View Post
    i really have my doubts that making a good game alone, can compete with the whaling industry.

    edit: what are elden ring bottom line earnings compared to diablo immortal?
    Dont forget god of war

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    anyone who genuinely thought that Diablo Immortal, a F2P game on mobile, would somehow buck the trend in that regard is just fucking stupid as fucking fuck and more naïve than an 18 year old nun. Jesus Christ...
    yea you cant have a new f2p game without p2w.
    but i really dislike that model, and fear that it will become the norm in the future, so if you wanna be competitive in any future game, youll have to pay 1000s of bucks.

  9. #9
    Cosmetics and conveniences but never power. Pretty simple solution OP.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by mojusk View Post
    yea you cant have a new f2p game without p2w.
    but i really dislike that model, and fear that it will become the norm in the future, so if you wanna be competitive in any future game, youll have to pay 1000s of bucks.
    You can.
    LoL or DOTA are examples of extremely popular F2P games without P2W aspect.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    anyone who genuinely thought that Diablo Immortal, a F2P game on mobile, would somehow buck the trend in that regard is just fucking stupid as fucking fuck and more naïve than an 18 year old nun. Jesus Christ...
    I strongly doubt that anyone is surprised, but rather the fact that it's just another nail of low Blizzard is willing to stoop to salvage their bottomline.

    For the most part, people didn't care about mobile games, because they were just that: Mobile games.
    Often made with throwaway franchises where nobody has any attachments to it whatsoever, but Diablo isn't a throwaway franchise, it's a 20 years old franchise that defined a genre.

    I think people are very justified in their concern that the future of gaming will turn towards this market of game design unless this sort of business model is stopped (one way or another), because i'm willing to bet that Diablo Immortal does not have the same production / maintenance costs of a WoW expansion and the people who count the money at Blizzard will realize this and certainly consider to realign the company to maximize profit.
    Not happening next year, but we also went from some Horse Armor DLC to this within less than two decades.

    Nevermind that i think this argument as a whole is a bit silly, simply because other mobile games have adopted such a model beforehand, doesn't mean it's somehow legitimate.
    Basically everything was okay until people came to the conclusion that it's not okay.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mendzia View Post
    You can.
    LoL or DOTA are examples of extremely popular F2P games without P2W aspect.
    Because they an E-Sport and a PvP game on top of that.
    Not having done any research but i'm willing to guess that P2W PvP games are far less popular, because the F2P audience likely fucks off pretty quickly there and the whales don't pay money to fight other whales.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2022-06-08 at 01:59 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    microtransactions have been in mobile games, especially free to play ones, for at least a decade. anyone who genuinely thought that Diablo Immortal, a F2P game on mobile, would somehow buck the trend in that regard is just fucking stupid as fucking fuck and more naïve than an 18 year old nun. Jesus Christ...
    At the very least the mobile games vary in how predatory the p2w tactics are. There are mobile games that you can just pay for and play - some really good ones actually (Monument Valley, Baldurs Gates). Then there are f2p games with minimal progression enhancers, and at the end of the line games that play themselves and demand money for playing themselves slightly faster. Immortal almost falls to the last category. Bellular is just bringing up the fact that the game goes for the same predatory tactics as the scummiest of eastern mobile sudo-mmos.

    It's a rather bad practice to hold a company that used to create some of the best games of their genres to the same standard as "Cow Clicker". And if making money is all that matters in that context, perhaps the company shouldn't be making games anymore? Idk, heard there's some good money in drug trafficking anyway.

  13. #13
    Mechagnome
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    The PoE model is fantastic and they seem to be doing okay for themselves.

    But just because it provides enough money to sustain a company and fund constant development doesn't mean it's enough to satisfy big Bobby I guess

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by mojusk View Post
    yea you cant have a new f2p game without p2w.
    but i really dislike that model, and fear that it will become the norm in the future, so if you wanna be competitive in any future game, youll have to pay 1000s of bucks.
    PoE seems to do well for itself without p2w

  15. #15
    Apparently we have been doing misinformation, lol.

    https://www.videogameschronicle.com/...isinformation/

    Lesson should be don't get hyped about a game just because of the IP. Research more and better before you choose your game you want to play. If you still want to play it go ahead, but know what you are getting into. Always assume any mobile game is a low effort cash grab designed to require regular cash money injections to enjoy, and stop having aspirations for something more from this platform. Buy a device dedicated to video games if you want to play decent video games, try not to get ripped off, and if you are easily addicted, maybe stay clear of certain types of games that appeal for real money with fomo or mtx, all together.
    Last edited by Zenfoldor; 2022-06-08 at 02:09 PM.

  16. #16
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I strongly doubt that anyone is surprised, but rather the fact that it's just another nail of low Blizzard is willing to stoop to salvage their bottomline.
    they're a company. of course they want their bottom line to be as high as possible. what, should they just neglect their bottom line and let it drop really, really low? then we get even shittier games and they make even more f2p mobile shit because they can't afford to make decent games anymore.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mojusk View Post
    yea you cant have a new f2p game without p2w.
    but i really dislike that model, and fear that it will become the norm in the future, so if you wanna be competitive in any future game, youll have to pay 1000s of bucks.
    I think it's stupid, and shouldn't be a thing, but I accept that it's just not gonna change. even if Blizzard make changes to speed shit up or whatever people are paying for the transactions will still be there and people will still buy them.

  17. #17
    SO 30 MILLION X 40-60 DOLLARS IS NOT ENOUGH MONEY? Diablo 3 sold 30 million, assuming most people paid full price its what 1.5 billion in sales if im not wrong.
    Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/djuntas ARPG - RTS - MMO

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by mojusk View Post
    i really have my doubts that making a good game alone, can compete with the whaling industry.

    edit: what are elden ring bottom line earnings compared to diablo immortal?
    "X makes a profit, but Y makes more profit, therefore X needs to change to be more like Y" is simply a bad way to approach business in the long term. It is sadly the way business is often approached these days, because of the financialization of our economy, but the reality is that business X does not have to mimic business Y just because Y makes more money. As long as X is making profit, that should be enough.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
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  19. #19
    Scarab Lord Skorpionss's Avatar
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    PoE style monetization. Don't pay for power but pay for convenience and for skins. For character slots etc. There are ways to monetize F2P games without making them P2W. I am not even against things like paid XP buffs to increase your leveling speed, that's okay, even though Paragons give pretty good bonuses, but it's still something you can progress decently even without xp boosts.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    SO 30 MILLION X 40-60 DOLLARS IS NOT ENOUGH MONEY? Diablo 3 sold 30 million, assuming most people paid full price its what 1.5 billion in sales if im not wrong.
    Welcome to modern capitalism, sadly. It isn't enough. Growth growth growth growth growth. Profits are irrelevant.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
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